front break rotors - Toyota Sienna Forum - siennachat.com
 
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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-20-2012, 10:01 PM Thread Starter
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front break rotors

i have a 2005 CE. the garage wanted me to change the front brakes as it was wearing out. i have 150k on it and changed the brakes on it once.
they wanted 99 $ for pads$
226$ for rotors
70$ for labour
it seemed to be fair price but i dont understand why i need to change rotors. i did not change them before
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 12:07 AM
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Re: front break rotors

Rotors wear and with 150K on them they're probably due for replacement.
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 07:12 AM
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Re: front break rotors

Not only do rotors wear down along with the pads (but at a slower rate), the tend to wear unevenly and have to be 'ground down', 'trued up', or 'turned' (interchangeable terms) to be flat and even again, otherwise the pads don't contact them fully as they should. The first time you had brakes done, they were probably removed and trued up. But there is a minimum thickness specification, and if getting them true means grinding them too thin, they must be replaced. That is a pretty typical situation for the second round.

If you got 150k out of front disks with only one pad change so far, you've probably done better than 90% of us!

Current: '15 Sienna Limited Premium (FWD), '14 Subaru Outback, '13 Honda CRV AWD.

Past: '08 Sienna LE (FWD), '02 Subaru Outback, '02 Honda Odyssey EX
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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 09:53 AM
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Re: front break rotors

It may be typical that on the second pad change, the rotors need replacement, but I hope they were not turned on the first round if they didn't need it.

There is a minimum thickness, and if they are too thin they should have measured them and reported that. There is a maximum degree of distortion (or how wavy or warped they have become): that is measured as "runout", and again I would want to see a number. Grooving is bad, too, and again can be measured, or at least described. If there is no objective evidence that they are too thin, too warped/wavy, or too grooved, there's no reason to replace them.

I particularly sensitive about this because my dealer tried to con me into paying for replacement rotors on the basis that they were too grooved when in fact they were flat and smooth. I guess they just didn't count on an owner having actually looked at the components on his own vehicle.

On the other hand, I agree that at 150,000 miles (or even 150,000 kilometres), it's not at all surprising that the front rotors would legitimately be due for replacement.

Since the cost of labour is the same for turning or replacement, I wouldn't pay anyone to remove, turn, and reinstall rotors like the Sienna's. Just put new ones on, to last another 150,000 whatevers (miles or kilometres).
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 04:20 PM
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Re: front break rotors

Whether to leave them be, turn them or replace them is highly subjective, and most people fall prey to pressure from the service department.

At minimum on a home brake job I like to block sand them (garnet paper - never SiC) to at least remove the rust ridge that can damage new pads. If they feel OK before I pull it apart, they look OK, and pass some basic measurements, I don't get them machined.

On the Sienna - Back in December I was putting on the snows when I noticed that one pad edge was way low. I was in the middle of a home remodeling project with no time, so I sent my wife in to Toyota to have it done. And of course they pressured her (and me by phone) to allow them to turn them based on excessive inner radius to outer radius taper. I didn't have the time for a 40 mile round trip to challenge their numbers, so let them do it. $40 each, IIRC for lathe time.

What really bothered me when the van came home was that they reused all of the basic hardware - shims, springs, wear sensor, etc. To me, changing out that stuff is a basic, yet when I looked up the Toyota pads, I found that the pad box does not contain the accessory items. My past cars have always offered a pad kit that had it all.

Current: '15 Sienna Limited Premium (FWD), '14 Subaru Outback, '13 Honda CRV AWD.

Past: '08 Sienna LE (FWD), '02 Subaru Outback, '02 Honda Odyssey EX
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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Re: front break rotors

does it make sense to get oem ones or 2nd line rotors. oem ones were 226$ and 2nd line ones were 120$
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 07:26 PM
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Re: front break rotors

Opinion, and please don't take offense: Area's that I don't recommend skimping - brakes and tires.... I've bought non-OEM alternatives in search of better performance, and possible paid a bit more or a bit less, but not intentionally gone out and purchased solely on price. Any idea what brand these are?

Per one of the sites, Toyota OEM rotors (discounted) run around $105 each, so they are on the expensive side. I see some no name aftermarket disks for as low as $25 each.

Current: '15 Sienna Limited Premium (FWD), '14 Subaru Outback, '13 Honda CRV AWD.

Past: '08 Sienna LE (FWD), '02 Subaru Outback, '02 Honda Odyssey EX
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 08:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: front break rotors

if u see oem @ 105 each. i am guessing that i need a pair ie 210$ and the shop is quoting 226$. i think its a fair price. i will go for the rotors. i just dont know if it makes sense to get no name after market as i have no clue what these things do. i look forward for some advice from more experienced folks like yourself.
thanks a lot for the information
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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 09:50 PM
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Re: front break rotors

While it's one of the alloys that dates back a very long time, making a top quality rotor from grey cast iron is a science. I have just enough materials background to be really dangerous (!), and understand some of the issues related to a binary phase diagram. Basically, making a good rotor has to do with the design and quality of the mold, and whether you can mix iron and carbon and a touch of silicon just right to fill it and maintain the thermal cooling profile to get the right final microstructure. This determines the desired wear, heat transfer, ductility, resistance to cracking, vibration damping, porosity & getting just the right amount of pad materials transfer for grip, resistance to corrosion, etc. You cannot have it all - it's all about balance, and some mfgrs favor some of these characteristics over others. And then there's the whole world of post heat & cryo treatment, machining and finishing. It's pretty easy to screw up and get something that looks great but doesn't work as it should. And all this costs money to do consistently right.

Unfortunately, as consumers, there is very little good info out there to rate one mfgr over another. I'd stay away from anything really inexpensive, as I'd expect quality of the product to be all over the place.

The rotor is a sandwich of two disks and a ventilation gap in between. From a visual standpoint, take a look at the thickness of the disks on both sides. Again it's a balance - You need some gap and fins for good venting and the lowest unsprung weight possible, but you want substantial plate thickness on both sides for wear and the ability to dissipate heat spikes over a large thermal mass. Some cheap rotors have very thin plates. Less material saves money, but at a price...

From there it comes down to reputation, feedback from others on various forums, and some blind faith. Wish I could tell you something more useful on this purchase.

Current: '15 Sienna Limited Premium (FWD), '14 Subaru Outback, '13 Honda CRV AWD.

Past: '08 Sienna LE (FWD), '02 Subaru Outback, '02 Honda Odyssey EX
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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 10:04 AM
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Re: front break rotors

I've heard good things about Brembo rotors, not sure if that's true for the newer Sienna's. That's what I replaced on my older 99.
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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 01:31 PM
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Re: front break rotors

please search I have written extensive simple to read DIY's on here......it will help you answer all your questions....

Good luck.

Javvy
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-23-2012, 07:29 PM
jc
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Re: front break rotors

Quote:
Originally Posted by junkone View Post
i have a 2005 CE. the garage wanted me to change the front brakes as it was wearing out. i have 150k on it and changed the brakes on it once.
they wanted 99 $ for pads$
226$ for rotors
70$ for labour
it seemed to be fair price but i dont understand why i need to change rotors. i did not change them before

You could pay Stealership prices, or learn how to do them yourself for half the price. Shopping around for OEM Toyota parts online would save you some money.


For my own brake maintenace, I've actually bought cheap rotors mid grade pads from Autozone and I've had them on my Sienna for over 100,000 KM with no issues. I do take the pads off annually and re-lubricate them on the calipers along with the sliders and they are still fine. I probably have about 50% of the material left on the pads.

Regards, JC.

I'm not trying to drive Like Mario Andretti, so they work fine for me.

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284,xxx kms - Sold... soon to be retired from Siennachat....
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