BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources? - Page 2 - Toyota Sienna Forum - siennachat.com
View Poll Results: Have you replaced your battery?
No 33 41.25%
Yes, with a non-OEM size (not Group 24F) 16 20.00%
Yes, with the OEM BCI Group 24F size 26 32.50%
My Sienna came with a different size 2 2.50%
What's a BCI Group? 3 3.75%
Voters: 80. You may not vote on this poll

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post #16 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-05-2009, 11:17 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I checked my local Costco today.

Costco/Kirkland lists OEM = Group24F, and their recommended replacement = #3 / Group35
#9 = Group34 (...it is also printed on my battery....I made the correction to [brian's] nice table up above).
#8 = Group58.

I don't think [#3 / Group35] is the "same" as an [OEM Group24F]. The [#3] looks smaller while retaining approx same height (IIRC), but probably meets/exceeds the OEM specs and terminal orientation. As previously noted in other discussions, [#9] has greater capacities/specs, but has "reversed" terminals, so you would need to make sure the cables can reach.....and have a method to secure the battery as it is shorter and the factory bracket will not suffice by itself (I DIY'ed and added a small wood block).

As [brian] also noted, it looks like [Group24F] is not being carried by Costco any more.

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

2004 XLE Ltd FWD Phantom Grey Pearl/Stone // 140K miles
. Pod-Style Running Boards
. OEM Hood Deflector (wimpy-version)
. 'kmead/SeanY' Rear-Wiper Salute
. 'mungpat' DIY Cabin Air Filter $$$-Saver
. Michelin HydroEdge (ex-Yokohama TRZ) ... looking for replacements
. Costco/Kirkland #9 battery
. Longer front wipers
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20131028
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post #17 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-09-2009, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I believe that I have resolved the Costco confusion.

The in-store battery catalog is specifically labeled as being for Canada, so the Canadian and U.S. operations presumably have somewhat different product lines, or at least labeling. In both cases, they use a "fitment code" (the #8, etc. of this discussion) to link the catalog, shelf locations, and products. It seems that the Canadian and U.S. fitment codes are different.

In both cases, the recommended fit (other than Optima) for the 2004-up Sienna is a Group 35 model, because the OEM Group 24F size is not available in the Kirkland Signature line. There is a Group 34 model, which has the reversed-terminal issue which topspy explained; compared to a Group 35, the Group 34 is lower but much longer.

There is also a Group 34/78DT which has a spacer (matching it in height to the Group 35) and both top and side terminals - perhaps the side terminals (with adapter posts screwed into them) would be easier to reach with the cables?

I have updated the table in my earlier post to clarify the Costco options, with Costco's "item number" in the part number column.
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post #18 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 03:42 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

ahhhh yes.....the ol' USA vs Canada model differences trick....~sigh~ 8)

2004 XLE Ltd FWD Phantom Grey Pearl/Stone // 140K miles
. Pod-Style Running Boards
. OEM Hood Deflector (wimpy-version)
. 'kmead/SeanY' Rear-Wiper Salute
. 'mungpat' DIY Cabin Air Filter $$$-Saver
. Michelin HydroEdge (ex-Yokohama TRZ) ... looking for replacements
. Costco/Kirkland #9 battery
. Longer front wipers
. Britax Frontier 90

20131028
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post #19 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 12:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Someone voted "My Sienna came with a different size". I'm curious: what year and version (trim level, etc) was this Sienna?

I find it interesting that everyone apparently knows what a BCI Group is.
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post #20 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 07:18 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Next supplier: WalMart

The batteries specified in the book at the store are
  • Optima RED35
    $198
    Optima is JCI's AGM series; their Red models are intended for engine starting application
    BCI Group 35; comes with spacer to make up height different for clamp
    (not slightly higher capacity dual-terminal RED34/78 because terminals are reversed)
  • Energizer MAX 108-35N
    looks like a BCI Group 35
    rated 640 CCA
  • Energizer MAX 72-35N
    72-35N does not exist, perhaps they mean 108-72N since all auto battery codes start with "108" - but they don't have that either

The other line at WalMart is EverStart, but they have none sized for the Sienna (they stock ES60-DT450 and ES60-DT550)

Energizer MAX and EverStart are both "dist by Johnson Controls Battery Group, Inc"; EverStart has a 1 year replacement warranty (versus 3 year) and is lower priced.

I think that the Max lines (in both Energizer and EverStart brands) are the "premium" models.

In the end, WalMart does not have a direct 24F replacement, and of their two conventional lines I would consider only the Energizer Max. WalMart is a source if the AGM route is considered, and may be the only convenient local source now that Costco no longer has Optima batteries.
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post #21 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 08:13 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

The book claims that Group 35 was standard for 1998-2003 and 2004-2005, with 24F standard for 2006 and optional in earlier years. There is no listing 2007-up; it is a 2007 book!

For 24F replacement they list:
  • "Custom fit": 624FMF or 634RMF
  • "Premium AG line": 7AG78DT or 7AG75DT
    • corresponds to Deka "Ultimate" line with Advanced Generation feature
  • AGM: 9A78DT
    • corresponds to Deka "Intimidator" line of absorbed glass mat type batteries
    • the usual (e.g. Optima) practice is to spec a group 35, but this a bigger group 34/78
  • "Value line": 778DT

The book is anonymous, and gives Sears item 37725 as a cross reference for the 624FMF, and model numbers matching its own under Deka in the cross-reference table. It does appear that these batteries are being supplied by East Penn, and using their usual Deka product numbers.

Actual in-stock products:
  • DieHard Gold with Deka custom fit numbers and "Series" 6000,
  • DieHard WeatherHandler with same style numbers and "Series" 5000

For the Sienna: DieHard Gold: 624FMF; 24C-650 CCA, 820 CA; $114.99

This 624FMF is same dimensions as the 624MF - just reversed. Since a real BCI Group 24F battery is longer than a 24 or 24R, it appears to me that they are just selling the 24R under the 24F label as a global fit for all sizes of this height and width and any length with the "reversed" terminal post placement.

No Sears numbers are posted on the shelf or on product, so I have no way to compare this with the Consumer's Report listing.

The guy behind the counter says they sell lots of 24F, and says that 24F is supposed to be just reversed 24. I'll buy the first point (why can't I find our 24F size at WalMart or Costco?), but the size cheating I don't accept.

Variants of group 24

BCI GroupL (mm)W (mm)H (mm)
24260173225
24F273173229
24H260173238
24R260173229
24T260173248

  • all are the same width
  • 24F is longer (and has reversed posts)
  • 24R just has reversed posts
  • 24H is higher, and
  • 24T is really tall

I'll admit this is not an authoritative list, since every BCI size list comes via some company which has reproduced it, and may have distorted the content.

I want my big 24F! At least a 24R (masquerading as a 24F) is bigger than a group 35.
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post #22 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-10-2009, 08:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
I find it interesting that everyone apparently knows what a BCI Group is.
Hmm... spoke too soon. I see that I have confused one survey respondent.

The Battery Council International is...
Quote:
the trade association for the lead-acid battery industry.
They set standards which their members (battery manufacturers) are supposed to follow, so that when someone claims to sell a "group 24F" battery, that means a specific size (and terminal post configuration) that should be the same for all manufacturers. This is much like the Tire & Rim Association, but batteries don't seem to follow BCI standards as closely as tires follow T&RA standards, and the BCI groups are just about external packaging, while the tire standards cover much more about capabilities of the products.
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post #23 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 03:05 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
Next supplier: WalMart

~snip!~

WalMart is a source if the AGM route is considered, and may be the only convenient local source now that Costco no longer has Optima batteries.
Yeah....I've noticed that my local Costcos here in SoCal no longer stock the Optimas either. Too bad....they were at a really competitive price compared to other sources....if someone was actually interested in paying the extra money for one. I guess they just weren't as popular as they had hoped they would be. I don't know if they would be special order-able....

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

~snip!~
Just an FYI/clarification....
[brian]'s mention of Sears' actual automotive services provider (KAL Tire / Canada) does not apply to the USA. Automotive services and products offered at any Sears may vary depending upon the state and individual license status of Sears Auto Centers in your region and any contractual agreements they may have with service providers/franchisees/etc. AFAIK, Sears runs their own shops in the USA....where available. In addition, the same parent company also controls Kmart, so many Sears-branded products (DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc) are also now available at many Kmart locations. Pricing tends to be similar within a regional market area between Sears/Kmart, but CAN VARY at times due to special promotions and availability issues.

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

2004 XLE Ltd FWD Phantom Grey Pearl/Stone // 140K miles
. Pod-Style Running Boards
. OEM Hood Deflector (wimpy-version)
. 'kmead/SeanY' Rear-Wiper Salute
. 'mungpat' DIY Cabin Air Filter $$$-Saver
. Michelin HydroEdge (ex-Yokohama TRZ) ... looking for replacements
. Costco/Kirkland #9 battery
. Longer front wipers
. Britax Frontier 90

20131028
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post #24 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-11-2009, 02:50 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by topspy
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

~snip!~
Just an FYI/clarification....
[brian]'s mention of Sears' actual automotive services provider (KAL Tire / Canada) does not apply to the USA. Automotive services and products offered at any Sears may vary depending upon the state and individual license status of Sears Auto Centers in your region and any contractual agreements they may have with service providers/franchisees/etc. AFAIK, Sears runs their own shops in the USA....where available.
I should have mentioned that "here", in my case, is Edmonton (and area), Alberta. Although Kal Tire is a nearly nationwide chain, they have no locations in the Maritime provinces, so I assume that another company is associated with Sears there... and perhaps elsewhere in Canada.

According to their website, Kal Tire sells DieHard-branded batteries even at non-Sears locations in western Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by topspy
In addition, the same parent company also controls Kmart, so many Sears-branded products (DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc) are also now available at many Kmart locations. Pricing tends to be similar within a regional market area between Sears/Kmart, but CAN VARY at times due to special promotions and availability issues.
That's a promising possibility ... especially since so far Sears has the only nearly-stock size product, and is the most expensive.
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post #25 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 10:21 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I recently installed an Autostart Silver 24F (Advance AutoParts). So far so good. I was never able to determine if it's a Johnson Controls or Exide battery (it's not marked).
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post #26 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-12-2009, 06:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael9
I recently installed an Autostart Silver 24F (Advance AutoParts). So far so good. I was never able to determine if it's a Johnson Controls or Exide battery (it's not marked).
Advance Auto Parts

The web site lists Autocraft-branded batteries.
Autocraft Silver 24F-5

I see there is also an Autocraft Gold 24F-6; strangely, the website's photo is of an Autocraft Titanium.

It appears from JCI's AutoBatteries.com that Autocraft is a Johnson Controls house brand for Advance Auto Parts and Discount Auto Parts.

I'll add this to the summary table.
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post #27 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-13-2009, 05:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Another supplier (at least in Canada): Canadian Tire

Canadian tire carries almost exclusively house-branded batteries, like most retailers. They have one billed as a group 24F:
Motomaster M72-24F-600
CTC item number 10-2472-0
700 CA, 600 CCA, 90 RC
Made in USA by unknown manufacturer
$100

By the way, the model numbers are just "M" for "Motomaster", "72" for length of warranty in months, dash, the BCI group size, dash, and the cold cranking amps rating. The item numbers at Canadian Tire usually don't have any readable meaning other than the first two-digit part indicates a department, but in this case they indicate the group number (this model seems to be sold as for group 24F or group 72 applications).

Their "premium" line is the Eliminator, which has a longer warranty. In that line there is no group 24; the group 35 is $100.

The commercial 6V battery on the shelf is an Exide, and they have one Orbital group 34 with centred posts (#34XCD Purple Haze cycle duty); Orbital is Exide's AGM brand, and I am guessing that the entire line at Canadian Tire is supplied by Exide.

I have updated the table.


I am highly biased against Canadian Tire as a source of batteries due to my experience with an earlier vehicle. We bought an Eliminator battery (group 24 by coincidence) for our Chev pickup, and had to get it replaced twice under warranty, just as the weather got cold each winter. On the third round we took a pro-rated refund instead and bought some other brand of battery from our tire store, which worked fine for several years (so it wasn't the truck's fault). One bad battery I can see... but three in a row in successive years?


By the way, despite the dominance of Johnson Controls (JCI), we now have examples of stores carrying house brands made by JCI, Exide, and East Penn.
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post #28 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-14-2009, 10:22 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I've experienced the same thing with Can.tire many years ago but apparently they changed their supplier.

Its probably true since the last battery bought there is still performing very well after 6 years in my old Buick.

Sienna CE 2009 Canadian version
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post #29 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-17-2009, 06:58 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I'm still plugging away at this, and have checked out another source: NAPA Canada

NAPA carries batteries which have some model names that suggest they are from East Penn, and the sales person volunteered without prompting that East Penn is indeed the manufacturer. Strangely, some of the model names look like those used on batteries supplied by Johnson Controls.

They have roughly four lines (in ascending order of price):
  • Powerstart
  • Power
  • Legend
  • Platinum - likely East Penn's premium "Advanced Generation" construction, sold as Deka Ultimate

Only the Power line has a BCI Group 24F battery:
  • 24F-6
  • 650 CCA rating
  • C$136

The "24F-6" designation, which presumably just means 24F size and about 6 hundred cold cranking amps, is exactly how the Autostart Gold branded batteries are designated... and they're built by Johnson Controls.
The same sales guy says that the "F" in 24F means "Ford"... which is probably not true, but is more trivia for anyone interested.

The product sheets list the DT34/78-7 or DT34/78AG-7 models for group 24F replacement; these numbers don't quite match Deka numbering, but may be the Deka ExactFit and Deka Ultimate equivalents (guessing from the "AG" in a non-AGM battery). This is the approach taken by topspy, but in this case (as with many multi-fit batteries of this style with dual terminals) the terminal posts are in the middle of the width of the battery, so instead of mounting it with the terminals on the correct (back) side but wrong ends, it is mounted with the terminals on the correct ends, but the cables need to reach in further over the battery.

As at Sears/Kal Tire, the group 24 and group 24F batteries have the same case size, so it seems to me that this model is being sold for 24R and 24F applications. It's still a bunch bigger than a group 35...

I suspect that NAPA in the U.S. and NAPA Canada have different battery product lines, even from different manufacturers.

I will update the summary table with this information.
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post #30 of 100 (permalink) Old 11-18-2009, 02:28 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

I was checking at my local Wallmart and came across the following battery. It is a group 24FS which the catalog says should fit the Sienna. It seems to be pretty stout with 700 CCA. It is made by Johnson Controls and has a 3 year free replacement warranty. Sells for $75 which seems reasonable.
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