BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources? - Page 4 - Toyota Sienna Forum - siennachat.com
View Poll Results: Have you replaced your battery?
No 33 42.31%
Yes, with a non-OEM size (not Group 24F) 15 19.23%
Yes, with the OEM BCI Group 24F size 25 32.05%
My Sienna came with a different size 2 2.56%
What's a BCI Group? 3 3.85%
Voters: 78. You may not vote on this poll

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post #46 of 100 (permalink) Old 09-17-2010, 09:07 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by snub17
~snip!~
Im not quite sure what you meant with the reset but i did change the time on my dash.

Thanks Again
You may (or may not) need to re-initialize/reset any or all "power" functions........power windows, power doors, power rear hatch, power moonroof, clock, radio stations & settings, NAV system location & settings, etc if your Sienna is equipped with those features. Generally, for the doors/windows you just need to do a complete cycle (open-close) manually before the system is properly re-initialized/reset to function properly. There are more detailed instructions in your Owner's Manual which will say pretty much the same thing.

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

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post #47 of 100 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 04:56 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

2002 Sienna, 168,000 miles. Replaced the original somewhat over 5 years, just as preventive maintenance, probably well over 100,000 miles.

Got an expensive Delco Pro, I think it was. Bad mistake. Didn't last long, and leaked constantly.

Less than 3 years old, it died here in Mexico. No way to get warranty service LTH, which one poster says is Johnson controls in Mexico, makes a 24R, their name for 24F. Tire place downtown in this small rural village had one, put it in, paid, and drove off. Surprised me, I thought I'd have to get someone to drive me several hour round trip to the nearest city to get one.
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post #48 of 100 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 10:13 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Surprised to hear this about an delco battery,I have always had great experience with these batteries in fact I consider them top notch.In fact I think they even went to the moon in the lunar rover.

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post #49 of 100 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 10:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcity
Surprised to hear this about an delco battery,I have always had great experience with these batteries in fact I consider them top notch.In fact I think they even went to the moon in the lunar rover.
Well, something completely unlike a car battery with a paid ad for Delco might have gone there...

I assume that Delco does not make batteries themselves. I would guess as the house brand for GM they have been premium-priced and likely are a premium product from one of the battery manufacturers... and maybe a different manufacturer every year.
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post #50 of 100 (permalink) Old 09-26-2010, 10:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

With the revival of this topic I now realize that I may not have posted my own decision: I did eventually put in a DieHard 624FMF, labeled as "6000 Series", and designated as (group) 24F and 650 CCA, purchased at Kal Tire.
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post #51 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 04:18 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

This topic is actually very popular. It often appears on the list of what is being viewed by members/guests.....sometimes multiple times within a given time range by different IP addresses/logins.

2004 XLE Ltd FWD Phantom Grey Pearl/Stone // 140K miles
. Pod-Style Running Boards
. OEM Hood Deflector (wimpy-version)
. 'kmead/SeanY' Rear-Wiper Salute
. 'mungpat' DIY Cabin Air Filter $$$-Saver
. Michelin HydroEdge (ex-Yokohama TRZ) ... looking for replacements
. Costco/Kirkland #9 battery
. Longer front wipers
. Britax Frontier 90

20131028
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post #52 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 10:34 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
I assume that Delco does not make batteries themselves.
You would be wrong Brian. They are one of the "Big Four" North American lead-acid battery manufacturers. Regardless of the name on the case, virtually all of the automotive batteries manufactured and sold in North America come from one of these manufacturers. Delco is the only one manufacturing sealed maintenance-free conventional wet cell batteries, so when you see a sealed battery you know it came from them. Some of the best (and most expensive) batteries on the market come from them.
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post #53 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 02:07 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Who makes the "diehard battery" ? Interstate ?

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post #54 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
I assume that Delco does not make batteries themselves.
You would be wrong Brian. They are one of the "Big Four" North American lead-acid battery manufacturers. Regardless of the name on the case, virtually all of the automotive batteries manufactured and sold in North America come from one of these manufacturers.
Hey, that's why it's an explicit assumption, rather than a statement of fact. That would mean Delco completes the list of four, consisting of
  • Johnson Controls
  • East Penn
  • Exide
  • Delco

It seems that Delco is the only one which doesn't make batteries for other brands, as none of the batteries we have come across in this discussion seem to come from Delco.

By the way, the "AC Delco" brand name has an interesting and convoluted history. Currently, it appears to be tied to the GM division responsible for parts; while I assume from wag's comments that GM actually makes these batteries, other parts are likely just "ACDelco" branded, just as Ford applies the Motorcraft brand and Chrysler applies the Mopar brand. The ACDelco website certainly supports this interpretation, babbling about the history of the brand and the distribution model, rather than actually saying what the company is or what they make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Delco is the only one manufacturing sealed maintenance-free conventional wet cell batteries, so when you see a sealed battery you know it came from them. Some of the best (and most expensive) batteries on the market come from them.
To me, the whole idea of a sealed wet cell battery is nonsensical, as it is nothing but a wet-cell battery with no access for examination or maintenance. I do see the logic: just as with an automatic transmission with fluid needing maintenance and no dipstick, it is deliberately hard for the incompetent owner or service staff to mess up. The sealed wet-cell batteries have extra electrolyte, and hope to go their entire life without needing more fluid. I note that commercial-grade wet-cell batteries from other well-regarded manufacturers which are used for seriously long periods under severe conditions are not sealed, but then they are perhaps less likely to be maintained by well-meaning but incompetent owners.

As for Sienna batteries...
the ACDelco Online Catalog lists three batteries for the 2004 Sienna:
Quote:
24R6YR [Professional - 6 Yr-Battery]; Top post-Battery CCA rating 600 ; 24F BCI ; 0585 CCA
24R7YR [Professional - 7 Yr-Battery]; Top post-Battery CCA rating 700 ; 24F BCI ; 0585 CCA
ACD24F60 [60 Series Battery]; Top post-Battery CCA rating 600 ; 24F BCI ; 0585 CCA
I note a couple of interesting bits of information those specs:
  • While a CCA rating of 585 is shown for each, that is probably the Sienna's original spec; the ACDelco batteries are rated at 600 or 700 CCA, like most brands.
  • The model names of the first two include "24R", which is the common BCI group size offered for the Sienna, but the details list the larger 24F; I assume that the actual battery is a smaller 24R offered as close enough to replace the original 24F (a common practice, not just with ACDelco). The "60 Series" product is part of a "lower" line, and according to the warranty list (the only full list of sizes I could find), the 60 Series only comes in 24F, not 24R.
  • They note "top post" for each model, because they are a GM division and GM insisted on those side terminals so the normal top-post configuration must be identified
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post #55 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 02:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by steelcity
Who makes the "diehard battery" ? Interstate ?
As shown in the table way back in this topic, the "DieHard" branded batteries we have found are from either Johnson Controls (as sold at Sears in the U.S.) or East Penn (as sold at Kal Tire in Canada). I wouldn't be entirely surprised if there are Exide batteries branded as DieHard sold somewhere.

Interstate is a major distributor of batteries made by Johnson Controls (JCI).
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post #56 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 03:37 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
It seems that Delco is the only one which doesn't make batteries for other brands, as none of the batteries we have come across in this discussion seem to come from Delco.
Delco DOES manufacture batteries for other brands. They make some models of the Walmart Everstart MAXXs, some of the newer DieHards, some of the O'Reilly Super Starts, and some of the NAPA Legend batteries to name a few. They also supplied batteries to Western Auto, I purchased several of them there before they went under. In addition to maintainence-free batteries, they also manufacture conventional batteries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
To me, the whole idea of a sealed wet cell battery is nonsensical, as it is nothing but a wet-cell battery with no access for examination or maintenance. I do see the logic: just as with an automatic transmission with fluid needing maintenance and no dipstick, it is deliberately hard for the incompetent owner or service staff to mess up. The sealed wet-cell batteries have extra electrolyte, and hope to go their entire life without needing more fluid. I note that commercial-grade wet-cell batteries which are used for seriously long periods under severe conditions are not sealed, but then they are perhaps less likely to be maintained by well-meaning but incompetent owners.
A couple of advantages are that they do not leak acid and they do not vent hydrogen gas unless seriously overcharged. As a result they are safer and have a decided advantage in uses where regular "serviceable" batteries would not be desireable, such as in the trunk. They are also advantageous where checking/adding water would be difficult or impossible. Under normal conditions (when it is not overcharged) water vapor is recycled inside the battery and is not exhausted from the battery with the hydrogen, like conventional batteries. Also, because of this they do not corrode the terminals like conventional batteries.
A piece of history, maintenance-free side terminal batteries were developed by Delco for the Chevy Vega because of the way that GM planned to ship them. The Vegas were shipped in a vertical position in rail cars designed specifically for this purpose. GM could ship many more of them per rail car this way. They needed a battery that would not leak in this position and would not short out if they came loose in transit.

I personally like Delco batteries. I have had excellent luck with them over the years. They also tend to consistantly rank at or near the top of Consumer Reports ratings.

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post #57 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 07:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
It seems that Delco is the only one which doesn't make batteries for other brands, as none of the batteries we have come across in this discussion seem to come from Delco.
Delco DOES manufacture batteries for other brands. They make some models of the Walmart Everstart MAXXs, some of the newer DieHards, some of the O'Reilly Super Starts, and some of the NAPA Legend batteries to name a few. They also supplied batteries to Western Auto, I purchased several of them there before they went under. In addition to maintainence-free batteries, they also manufacture conventional batteries.
If you've got details, supply them and I'll try to update that table near the beginning of this thread. One problem with identifying these things is that a brand name is not nearly enough, since (as this emphasizes) there can be many sources of the same-branded battery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
To me, the whole idea of a sealed wet cell battery is nonsensical, as it is nothing but a wet-cell battery with no access for examination or maintenance.
A couple of advantages are that they do not leak acid and they do not vent hydrogen gas unless seriously overcharged. As a result they are safer and have a decided advantage in uses where regular "serviceable" batteries would not be desireable, such as in the trunk. They are also advantageous where checking/adding water would be difficult or impossible. Under normal conditions (when it is not overcharged) water vapor is recycled inside the battery and is not exhausted from the battery with the hydrogen, like conventional batteries. Also, because of this they do not corrode the terminals like conventional batteries.
This means that these are valve-regulated lead-acid batteries, dependent on recombinant chemistry, like gel and AGM batteries. I'm surprised by that, but I agree that the advantages would apply if this is true. My question: why are they not found in the many applications for sealed batteries where only gel and AGM are found today (other than the fact that they can only be transported tilted, but must be used upright).

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
A piece of history, maintenance-free side terminal batteries were developed by Delco for the Chevy Vega because of the way that GM planned to ship them. The Vegas were shipped in a vertical position in rail cars designed specifically for this purpose. GM could ship many more of them per rail car this way. They needed a battery that would not leak in this position and would not short out if they came loose in transit.
That's an interesting bit of trivia - thanks! Ah, the days when GM was willing to try original ideas... the 1974 Vega (and the related Monza) was even due to get a Wankel-type rotary engine before that project died.

For those interested in this particular sidetrack, see the Wikipedia Vega page for the Vert-A-Pac section, complete with a photo. That section, by the way, says the batteries were conventional, but with "filler caps located high up on the rear edge of the case to prevent acid spilling" in the nose-down shipping position.

The side terminals, on the other hand, seem like a completely unrelated feature. My guess is that they are just cheaper, because the cable's terminal is a simple lug rather than a clamp. The idea of threading lead is just so bad that I see even GM gave up on it, at least for the trucks I've looked at. Now we get dual-terminal batteries (often with "DT" in the model name) to accommodate vehicles having either top posts or side sockets with the same product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
I personally like Delco batteries. I have had excellent luck with them over the years. They also tend to consistantly rank at or near the top of Consumer Reports ratings.
I'm not questioning anyone's personal experience, but the Consumer Reports ratings mean almost nothing to me. Other than Consumer Reports' demonstrated technical incompetence, my problem with them for this type of product is that I have no idea if what I can buy will be what they tested, due to regional variations and the almost random application of brand names. DieHard batteries, for instance, currently come from any of at least three of the four manufacturers, according to what we have found in this discussion.
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post #58 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 08:33 PM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
If you've got details, supply them and I'll try to update that table near the beginning of this thread. One problem with identifying these things is that a brand name is not nearly enough, since (as this emphasizes) there can be many sources of the same-branded battery.
When you see a maintainence-free battery it came from Delco. I know of no other manufacturer that makes them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
This means that these are valve-regulated lead-acid batteries, dependent on recombinant chemistry, like gel and AGM batteries. I'm surprised by that, but I agree that the advantages would apply if this is true. My question: why are they not found in the many applications for sealed batteries where only gel and AGM are found today (other than the fact that they can only be transported tilted, but must be used upright).
Inside the top of the maintainence-free batteries they have a water separator and some kind of a catalyst. There is also a pressure release valve to vent hydrogen to the atmosphere in the event that internal pressures get too high due to overcharging. These batteries MUST be used in the upright position.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
For those interested in this particular sidetrack, see the Wikipedia Vega page for the Vert-A-Pac section, complete with a photo. That section, by the way, says the batteries were conventional, but with "filler caps located high up on the rear edge of the case to prevent acid spilling" in the nose-down shipping position.
The side terminals, on the other hand, seem like a completely unrelated feature. My guess is that they are just cheaper, because the cable's terminal is a simple lug rather than a clamp. The idea of threading lead is just so bad that I see even GM gave up on it, at least for the trucks I've looked at. Now we get dual-terminal batteries (often with "DT" in the model name) to accommodate vehicles having either top posts or side sockets with the same product.
I read about the new maintainence-free batteries and their relationship to the Vega in a Popular Science or Popular Mechanics article back in 1969 or 70 (I subscribed to both back then). The Wikipedia article is wrong. My best Friend's dad bought one of the very first Vegas in the fall of 1970 and it did in-fact have a maintainence-free battery with side terminals. It was the first battery of it's type that any of us ever saw. I was intensly interested in the car having just received my driver's license, so this particular feature was burned into my memory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
DieHard batteries, for instance, currently come from any of at least three of the four manufacturers, according to what we have found in this discussion.
They just recently started using Delco as one of their suppliers. WalMart also carries batteries from at least 3 of the 4 major suppliers.
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post #59 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-03-2010, 10:00 PM Thread Starter
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
One problem with identifying these things is that a brand name is not nearly enough, since (as this emphasizes) there can be many sources of the same-branded battery.
When you see a maintainence-free battery it came from Delco. I know of no other manufacturer that makes them.
That would be none of the ones I've seen, but again there's that regional problem. Anyone else seen the Delco design in a battery for the Sienna?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wag
Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
For those interested in this particular sidetrack, see the Wikipedia Vega page for the Vert-A-Pac section, complete with a photo. That section, by the way, says the batteries were conventional, but with "filler caps located high up on the rear edge of the case to prevent acid spilling" in the nose-down shipping position.
I read about the new maintainence-free batteries and their relationship to the Vega in a Popular Science or Popular Mechanics article back in 1969 or 70 (I subscribed to both back then). The Wikipedia article is wrong. My best Friend's dad bought one of the very first Vegas in the fall of 1970 and it did in-fact have a maintainence-free battery...
It certainly wouldn't be the first incorrect information in Wikipedia, but the point of a wiki is that users can fix it: go for it!

(I did notice that the same Wikipedia page shows the Delco Freedom battery as a new-for-1976 feature, but I'm not the one with first-hand knowledge).
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post #60 of 100 (permalink) Old 10-04-2010, 08:41 AM
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Re: BCI Group 24F Replacement Battery - suggestions and sources?

Quote:
Originally Posted by brian_bp
That would be none of the ones I've seen, but again there's that regional problem.
There is an article about car batteries in the just released Nov. 2010 Consumer reports. In the article they picture several batteries that are obviously maintenance-free and they also recommend them.
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