Tent trailer and van sagging

[teachndad]

This might have been the video. It looks like it wasn't at etrailer.com.

[url][/uhttp://www.truckspring.com/air-lift-1000-air-spring-kits_637.htmlrl]

[LennyO]

What is the best way to jack up the Sienna to install these? I have a floor jack and also access to a lift, but it is the kind of lift that lifts by the wheels, so th esprings would still be compressed? Any thoughts on where to route the air line? I presume the fitting to inflate them is a typical fitting used on tires, correct? Sorry for all of the questions, just wat to get it right.

[scubajoe]

I found a grommet in the floor to run the lines up through. I think I ran mine on each side into the vehicle. I want to have the line stored in the jack area, but there isn't enough line with the kit, so mine are separate right now. One I get around to buying more hose and a "T" I'll get it finished up.

[brian_bp]

...I'm worry to see the van sagging a lot since there is no self leveling shock on this van from factory.

I did not have any issue with excessive sag when towing a small tent [pop-up] trailer (hitch weight perhaps 200 lb) and a pile of cargo; with my travel trailer (300 lb hitch weight) I would find the sag excessive without air bags.

My G.Caravan 2006 with the towing package have those nivomat shock and they are doing a very very good job. The van is always level , no matter how I load it...

Ah, Nivomat... that would be nice. Unfortunately, as far as I can tell these are not available for the Sienna (or for most vehicles).

...
I've seen some Sienna owners hauling p'ups that I know to be over 2,100lbs dry (with no weight distributing hitch), and that would scare the bejeezus out of me personally.

I don't know why this would be scary. My travel trailer is about 2400 lb dry, 3000 lb loaded, and we tow without a weight-distribution system. The 305 lb hitch weight is well within the Sienna's 350 lb limit, the axle load is always within the GAWR (although just barely), the front and rear axle loads are pretty well balanced, and the air bags keep the rear ride height at a nice level.

I am planning to add the air bags after I purchase a used first gen Sienna. When using the air bags while towing does the ride get harsh especially in the back?

No one rides in the back of our van. From the front seat, I only notice harshness if the bags are left pumped up without cargo or trailer load.

Does anyone have recommended psi's for travel. I am only asking, because I don't want to go through all the trouble of doing a shake down cruise with the trailer and the family inside and then do adjustments along the way on a major trip.

The other posted recommendations sound reasonable to me. I have used from 5 psi (no heavy load) to about 20 psi (towing), and maybe a bit higher.

My approach is to inflate the bags enough after loading to restore the rear height almost to stock... that automatically means more air pressure for higher loads, and as long as the presssure (and thus spring stiffness) is suited to the load then the ride is good.

If using air bags in the suspension, I think it makes sense to have a portable air pump (one of those cheap 12V tire pumps, or a hand-pumped unit), so it's no big deal if you want to make an adjustment at a rest stop.

...One idea that *might* help would be to take some weight off the springs by slightly lifting the body with a jack (careful - don't hurt anything), just to stretch the springs out some - NOT trying to lift the tire off the ground! That might give a little more room to get the airbag in...

Personally, I wouldn't try this installation without lifting the back of the Sienna off the ground, just because I need space to get my body under there! I jacked up the back and supported the vehicle with two jackstands, leaving the tires hanging in the air and - here's the bonus - the springs as extended as they can be without dissassembling anything.

If you don't have a floor jack, and your only lifting device is the tire-changing jack, then this is not workable. I would rather buy a cheap jack and jackstands than try to do this without lifting the van, but then I like tools.

What is the best way to jack up the Sienna to install these? I have a floor jack and also access to a lift, but it is the kind of lift that lifts by the wheels, so th esprings would still be compressed?

There is a central jacking point in the middle of the van floor, up close to the axle line (in an AWD, it is the rear differential housing): this is where a floor jack is used to lift the entire back end allowing the suspension to extend. Good jackstand locations (because you never get under a vehicle supported by only a jack) are ahead of each rear wheel (various possible places with good structure).

I presume the fitting to inflate them is a typical fitting used on tires, correct?

Yes, my Coil-Rites came with tire-style valves, and I believe that all the common brands are set up this way.

Sorry for all of the questions, just wat to get it right.

That's what we're here for!

[jake696]

Well I bought the air bag kit from Amazon and I'm awaiting arrival. I got my pop-up camper onto the van today and drove around w/ it to check it out. I have an '04 Sienna AWD XLE limited and didn't notice any sag, even tho' this rig is near the maximum for the factory tow package I have (3500 lbs./350 tongue weight). The van is low to begin w/ but I wonder if the AWD isn't a bit stiffer than the FWD? Oh well, I figure by the time I load up the cargo area in the van, I'll need the bags...

The weight for the camper is listed as 1 ton, but I don't know if that's before or after the AC unit? The trailer has no brakes and no WDH hitch on the van.

I don't like the smaller 1.25" receiver that came on the van. Most of the time I will use the truck to tow this thing; however, I plan to go from the Dakotas to Michigan with it this summer...the worst part of the trip being Chicago, as always!

[brian_bp]

... I have an '04 Sienna AWD XLE limited and didn't notice any sag, even tho' this rig is near the maximum for the factory tow package I have (3500 lbs./350 tongue weight). The van is low to begin w/ but I wonder if the AWD isn't a bit stiffer than the FWD? Oh well, I figure by the time I load up the cargo area in the van, I'll need the bags...

Another AWD owner investigated the 2WD/AWD differences, and reported that the springs were different - they might be a bit stiffer, a bit taller, or both.

... The weight for the camper is listed as 1 ton, but I don't know if that's before or after the AC unit?

Listed weights rarely include any optional equipment (and the air conditioning is likely optional).

... The trailer has no brakes and no WDH hitch on the van.

WD isn't necessary with a hitch weight under 350 lb (although some choose to use it), but trailer brakes are required (according to the Sienna manual) for trailers over 1000 lb - I believe that a trailer which is over a ton empty certainly should have brakes.

[jake696]

I've seen some discussion about this in POP-up forums. It seems it makes more sense to replace and upgrade the axle than to retro fit the brakes? Yikes!

... I have an '04 Sienna AWD XLE limited and didn't notice any sag, even tho' this rig is near the maximum for the factory tow package I have (3500 lbs./350 tongue weight). The van is low to begin w/ but I wonder if the AWD isn't a bit stiffer than the FWD? Oh well, I figure by the time I load up the cargo area in the van, I'll need the bags...

Another AWD owner investigated the 2WD/AWD differences, and reported that the springs were different - they might be a bit stiffer, a bit taller, or both.

... The weight for the camper is listed as 1 ton, but I don't know if that's before or after the AC unit?

Listed weights rarely include any optional equipment (and the air conditioning is likely optional).

... The trailer has no brakes and no WDH hitch on the van.

WD isn't necessary with a hitch weight under 350 lb (although some choose to use it), but trailer brakes are required (according to the Sienna manual) for trailers over 1000 lb - I believe that a trailer which is over a ton empty certainly should have brakes.

[teachndad]

The trailer has no brakes and no WDH hitch on the van.

I don't usually come across strong on most subjects on a forum, but here I will come out and say that you really need to get brakes. I drove two years with a 1000 lb trailer behind me. It didnt' have brakes, as I didn't know much about towing and popups. But, after doing a lot of research on the subject, I really urge you to get brakes. I have since upgraded to a larger popup with brakes.

It's no problem driving along and you have time to stop at an upcoming light or slowing traffic, but there is always a chance that you will be driving along and you have to hit the brakes hard. Even with ABS, you have 2000 pounds plus A/C unit plus gear pushing you.... Can you stop in time? There could also be liability concerns too.

I am surprised at that weight, your popup didn't come with brakes.

Just my two cents. Enjoy the popup. I wish mine had A/C.

Cheers.

Rod W

[brian_bp]

I am surprised at that weight, your popup didn't come with brakes.

I'm not surprised.

Many trailer manufacturers supply brakes as standard equipment only on trailers with a Gross Vehicle Weight rating of at least 3000 lb, corresponding to a common legal requirement level. Although I don't know the weight rating of jake696's trailer, I assume that with a basic dry weight of 2000 lb, the GVWR is less than 3000 lb, or at least less than 3500 lb.

One problem with this minimalist approach is that legal requirements vary; another problem is that what is legally allowed is not the same as what is physically required for safe operation. This is particularly true for us with Siennas, since our vehicles are quite capable of towing up to 3000 lb, but should use trailer brakes past 1000 lb; many of our trailers legally do not need brakes in many jurisdictions, but physically need them for safe operation.

I think that the brake issue is important, and logically follows from this topic's discussion of trailer weight; however, it doesn't really have anything to do with the rear of the van sagging. I would gladly drop this subject in this thread and pick it up in a separate discussion, if anyone wants to start another topic.