Towing capacity and tongue weight capacity with weight distributing hitch

[Zector]

You can tow more, people have done it. But if you want to get into heavy pulling, you might be better off getting an used truck for it. There are many TT's in the weight range of the Sienna that do very well. I have a post following my experinces with my 2011 sienna V6 FWD and a 2011 Jayco 184BH, which falls well within the capacity of the Sienna.

http://www.siennachat.com/forum/index.php?topic=4488.0

Good luck!

[shineysideup]

By their logic, a Ford F-350 should be able to tow 30,000 lb (as long as it was one of the Airstreams which Can-Am sells) with a big WDH and a brace under the hitch receiver... and I'm sure it could for a while

30,000 wow that's a bit hard to believe I tell you!

Yes, that's the point. 30,000 lb is not their number, it's mine, extrapolating the degree to which Can-Am exceeds manufacturer's limits for smaller vehicles. Can-Am's limits are based on what has enough power to perform well enough to meet some unstated standard of their own, and what can be demonstrated to not fatally fail in use. By the same standard, an F-350 has enough power for 15 tons of trailer and could handle a three tons of hitch weight without bottoming out the springs, so it must be okay... right?

Just to throw my two cents in... When car manufacturers start rating their stuff logically I'll buy in. sienna, highlander, what's the difference? 1500 lbs towing capacity according to toyota. Why? O.K., let's look at some numbers. Same powertrain (vs. AWD sienna), both unibody. There is a few things that the highlander has; 3.48 gearing while the sienna AWD has 3.28's ('04 model). Now things get interesting; highlander has a GVWR of 6000 lbs., sienna 5995 lbs., highlander (limited) weighs 4321 lbs, sienna weighs 4735 lbs ( tail wagging the dog? more weight is better right? that's how some people think ), highlander has 7.7 inches of ground clearance, sienna has 6.2 (lower center of gravity for the van? it starts off sitting closer to the ground to begin with...), highlander has a 64 inch front and rear track, sienna has a 67.7 inch track - this favours the van by 3.7 inches front and back not to mention the highlanders 110 inch wheelbase vs. the sienna's 19.3 inch wheelbase. Wheelbase matters, winner the sienna (at least in my eyes for stability).

As you can see it isn't cut and dry. Should be compare the diesel jeep liberty to a sienna? rated for 5000 lbs, 25 ft max trailer length with a max. frontage of 64 sq. feet (most travel trailers, such as mine - this is where an airstream really shines). The jeep liberty numbers were directly from the jeep website a few years ago. So, either jeep and toyota grossly overrate some of their suv's or manufacturers underrate some of their other vehicles. Please convince me that the difference in starting price points (profit per vehicle) has nothing to do with assigned tow ratings.

I'm not saying hook onto whatever you want but to me some things don't add up. As far as Can Am goes, I haven't seen to many other dealerships that take their setups through slalom courses and emergency lane changes at a race track. I wouldn't be so sure that Andy doesn't know what weights are on the axles of his vehicle setups. My setup went to the scales after I got it, everything was within limits of the axles (and tires). Of course this has all been said in the "towing beyond manufactures ratings" section of siennachat already...

[brian_bp]

Just to throw my two cents in... When car manufacturers start rating their stuff logically I'll buy in. sienna, highlander, what's the difference? 1500 lbs towing capacity according to toyota. Why?
...Of course this has all been said in the "towing beyond manufactures ratings" section of siennachat already...

Yes, we've been there and done that. I look forward to consistent application of the new SAE standard J2807 for towing ratings, but until then I don't put any more faith in an RV dealer's choices than Toyota's.

I think someone who is not interested in - and capable of - understanding the technical issues should stay within published limits, as is the intention of the original post of this topic.

As far as Can Am goes, I haven't seen to many other dealerships that take their setups through slalom courses and emergency lane changes at a race track.

It seems that everyone with a novel hitch arrangement does that, and it always works out fine... for them. The Can-Am people do put serious thought into towing dynamics - or at least Andy does although his sidekick Garth's magazine letter responses show that he is an idiot, or at least careless - but they are far short of systematic and thorough research and testing.

I wouldn't be so sure that Andy doesn't know what weights are on the axles of his vehicle setups. My setup went to the scales after I got it, everything was within limits of the axles (and tires).

Within limits does not mean correct (for instance, the front axle should not carry more load than it would without the trailer), and it is easy to eyeball suspension heights to get that. I have asked, and there apparently are no scales, and no check trips to the nearest truck scale.

[shineysideup]

ate=1309225007]

It seems that everyone with a novel hitch arrangement does that, and it always works out fine... for them. The Can-Am people do put serious thought into towing dynamics - or at least Andy does although his sidekick Garth's magazine letter responses show that he is an idiot, or at least careless - but they are far short of systematic and thorough research and testing.

Ah Brian, you make me laugh! You have a very direct approach to things in life. A spade is a spade, plain and simple. That my friend (at least my debating buddy...), is a trait I value in people.

It is nice to see that with the new SAE standard there will be testing that is the same and repeatable for all manufacturers.

Interestingly Toyota has adopted this new rating for their tundra already. My buddy pulls his 5th wheel - 34 feet, 8500lbs dry with an crew cab. His rating dropped 500 lbs but I think he would still fall inside the towing parameters.

This is still going to be open to discussion as it does NOT give guidelines for durability of equipment. I'll bet dollars to donuts that the higher the profit per vehicle (suv vs. van) the higher the tow rating.

Did you know that the 4 cyl. sienna is rated for 3500lbs towing?

I do think that this is a good thing and will give the consumer more info but with a quick overview is appears that there are "outs" for manufacturers to apply lower tow ratings at their discretion. Too bad the standard wasn't independently conducted by a reputable third party with no interest (or stake) in the assigned tow ratings other than what a vehicle would actually be capable of. :o

[tcp]

The toyota canada site shows only the V6 siennas rated to tow 3500lbs.

http://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehic...tions/capacity

[shineysideup]

The toyota canada site shows only the V6 siennas rated to tow 3500lbs.

http://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehic...tions/capacity

Me bad... :o Not sure what I was looking at!

thanks,

shineysideup

[brian_bp]

Ah Brian, you make me laugh!

Good... I think that's a valuable contribution.

It is nice to see that with the new SAE standard there will be testing that is the same and repeatable for all manufacturers.

Interestingly Toyota has adopted this new rating for their tundra already. My buddy pulls his 5th wheel - 34 feet, 8500lbs dry with an crew cab. His rating dropped 500 lbs but I think he would still fall inside the towing parameters.

The new standard requires typical optional equipment loads to be considered, while ratings for vehicles that are claiming the highest possible value traditionally assume no optional equipment and leave the owner/driver to compensate for actual equipment. A moderate reduction in rating is therefore expected for a pickup truck, and doesn't represent any over-estimation in the original rating, just the need to consider actual conditions.

With the Sienna's current conservative ratings, optional equipment isn't a factor for a Sienna unless combining significant passenger+cargo load in combination with a trailer. Under the new system, Sienna owners will need to realize that they cannot blindly accept the new (presumably higher) numbers without considering both optional equipment (or actual measured curb weight) and passengers+cargo.

Did you know that the 4 cyl. sienna is rated for 3500lbs towing?

Okay, that statement has since been corrected, but since the Sienna's tow ratings are not up to the limit imposed by GCWR, the 4-cylinder's likely lower GCWR would not necessarily mean a lower towing limit anyway.

I do think that this is a good thing and will give the consumer more info but with a quick overview is appears that there are "outs" for manufacturers to apply lower tow ratings at their discretion. Too bad the standard wasn't independently conducted by a reputable third party with no interest (or stake) in the assigned tow ratings other than what a vehicle would actually be capable of. :o

The standard is limited (on the upper limit) by actual capability. I think that the intent was to impose some reality on the implausibly high limits claimed for pickup trucks and SUVs and keep them down, not to drive any vehicle's rating up to the highest defensible level.