Towing capacity and tongue weight capacity with weight distributing hitch

[michelb]

Hi,
I was out shopping for a travel trailer with a friend and when I mentioned one trailer wasn't an option because the tongue weight was too high, the salesperson (and I realize this is a salesperson speaking so wanted to ask the question here) said that with that trailer, you need to use a weight distribution hitch so the tongue weight wasn't an issue. Is this correct?

The Sienna is rated at 3500/350. Can that be safely exceeded if you use a weight distribution hitch? (I think my hitch says 3500/350 or 5000/500 with WDH but I always just assumed that since the van was only rated to 3500/350, there was no benefit in using a WDH (coudn't exceed van's rating so couldn't go beyond 3500/350 anyway)).

Let me know. Thanks,
Mike

[jh818]

You should use a WD hitch rated for the tongue weight of your trailer. It keeps your front wheels down to the ground. If you don't use it, your front end will lift up when you hit bumps, thus making you lose control and traction since the van is front wheel drive.

Just picture it as a see saw with the rear axle of the van being the fulcrum.

[homer]

You are right WDH is no help in regards of what the van can haul, the effect is about how much weight you can put on the hitch. WDH is not going to reduce the load on the powertrain, 2 1/2 tons is way too hvy for the tranny and that exceed toyota's spec.

Dont expect to haul a lot more than a pop up trailer, or a very small / short ultra-lite travel tailor.

[tcp]

Homer, check out:

http://siennachat.com/forum/index.php/topic,414

http://siennachat.com/forum/index.php/topic,364

With a WDH the allowed tongue weight is 525lbs as per the manual in my 2005CE.

You are right WDH is no help in regards of what the van can haul, the effect is about how much weight you can put on the hitch. WDH is not going to reduce the load on the powertrain, 2 1/2 tons is way too hvy for the tranny and that exceed toyota's spec.

Dont expect to haul a lot more than a pop up trailer, or a very small / short ultra-lite travel tailor.

[homer]

TCP thanks for the links, lots of reading there I'Ll read that later must go to work now

I agree that you can put up to 500 / 525 lbs on the tongue with a WDH

I better find something special in the post suggested to convince me to haul 5000lbs

I wouldn't haul more than 3500 lbs thats about what I pull when we go camping and I agree that the limitation isn't the engine but the vehicule itself, what I am saying it here is that you feel the weight is there especially on windy rough and hilly road . I would feel a lot safer in a rear wheel drive vehicule with 5000lbs of towing capacity

[tcp]

I'm not advocating towing more, just that the chassis and engine seem up to the task of "pushing" the weight limit a bit. It looks like our F18 Bantam is up for sale and we'll be getting a new funfinder X next spring. The dry weight (with accessories) of the FF is 32XXlbs. After towing our bantam, fully loaded with water, 4 batteries, propane and stuff at 3600-3700lbs through the rockies for a couple of weeks the last two years, I have no issue buying a slightly heavier unit. New toys...

TCP thanks for the links, lots of reading there I'Ll read that later must go to work now

I agree that you can put up to 500 / 525 lbs on the tongue with a WDH

I better find something special in the post suggested to convince me to haul 5000lbs

I wouldn't haul more than 3500 lbs thats about what I pull when we go camping and I agree that the limitation isn't the engine but the vehicule itself, what I am saying it here is that you feel the weight is there especially on windy rough and hilly road . I would feel a lot safer in a rear wheel drive vehicule with 5000lbs of towing capacity

[michelb]

Thanks for all the responses. It really was just the tongue weight (I think it's around 400-500 lbs) I was concerned about and I hadn't realized the WDH handled that.

[brian_bp]

It really was just the tongue weight (I think it's around 400-500 lbs) I was concerned about and I hadn't realized the WDH handled that.

The WDH doesn't entirely "handle" the tongue weight, but it does allow you to go up to the higher limit (as already listed) without concerns about the hitch prying the rear structure off the van and with less likelihood of overloading the rear axle (you still need to check that).

It is not uncommon for trailers within the total weight capability of the Sienna to have hitch weights higher than the Sienna's weight-carrying limit; this will happen because the weight-carrying limit is set at 10% of the trailer weight limit, and many trailers are (often for no good reason) more front-heavy than that.

[kos99ngel]

U can definitely towed more than 3,500 lbs I have read that some people towed a lot more

http://www.airforums.com/forums/blog...-trailer-1462/

[brian_bp]

If the original question is about the rated towing capacity of the Sienna, I believe it has been answered.
If the question is what can be towed with a Sienna, then the answer is an infinite amount, as long as it does not need to be safe or reliable.
If the question is what can be safely and reliably towed by a Sienna, then the towing beyond manufacturers tow ratings topic addresses that.

The link supplied by kos99ngel shows another infamous Can-Am RV rig. It appears to be structurally unsound, as the WD shank is substantially off of horizontal, indicating massive distortion of the hitch. With huge forces from the weight distribution system, the van's front axle could be easily overloaded... and Can-Am doesn't even check axle loads. There is nothing to indicate that anything has been done to improve engine reliability; "no towing package" and "larger oil coolers" are not explained, so I don't know if both the engine and the transmission have adequate cooling. It doesn't even have a properly installed breakaway switch.

[GGB]

As has been explained already WDH will distribute some trailer tongue weight from the rear of the hitch to the front of the vehicle as well as back to the trailer axle(s).

As for the Airstream set up linked here a family friend that has a 31ft Airstream has seen that set up and says that it is done properly. On that set up Can Am has reinforced the hitch, installed a larger transmission cooler along with a temperature gauge and it has dual friction sway control in addition to the WDH and a P2 brake controller. I do agree that the only proper way to check if the set up is not going to overload the front & rear axles and also the trailer axle(s) is to weigh everything at truck scales. That particular owner has done that and everything is within the specs with 2 adults and 2 children in the vehicle. He can not carry too much gear in the van but that all goes into the trailer as it is large enough at 28ft.

Oh if anyone is wondering the family friend with the 31ft Airstream has towed it with a Ford Freestar and just has purchased a 2011 Sienna to tow with. The Ford has towed the Airstream for the last 3 years and put on about 100,000 km (~62000 mi) of actual towing as they are full timers in the RV world. When he got rid of the Freestar it had a total of 248,000km (~155000 mi).


Sorry didn't mean to highjack the thread but as I new a bit about that linked set up I thought I would chime in.

Gord

[brian_bp]

As for the Airstream set up linked here a family friend that has a 31ft Airstream has seen that set up and says that it is done properly. On that set up Can Am has reinforced the hitch, installed a larger transmission cooler along with a temperature gauge and it has dual friction sway control in addition to the WDH and a P2 brake controller.

If the linked setup's description was intended to indicate that the Sienna has no Toyota tow prep package, but does have additional transmission cooling (a larger version of the stock cooler seems very unlikely as that cooler is built into the radiator "lower" tank), then it has no engine oil cooler. The owner should install and engine oil temperature gauge and watch it carefully, because Toyota believes that engine oil cooling is required (with the 2GR-FE engine) even for the load of a light trailer, so with that monster it would be easy to create far too much heat.

If it is not apparent, I'm getting tired of hearing how Can-Am tosses routine hardware on a vehicle, welds a bit of steel under the floor, and declares the vehicle to have incredible abilities. By their logic, a Ford F-350 should be able to tow 30,000 lb (as long as it was one of the Airstreams which Can-Am sells) with a big WDH and a brace under the hitch receiver... and I'm sure it could for a while.

I do agree that the only proper way to check if the set up is not going to overload the front & rear axles and also the trailer axle(s) is to weigh everything at truck scales. That particular owner has done that and everything is within the specs with 2 adults and 2 children in the vehicle. He can not carry too much gear in the van but that all goes into the trailer as it is large enough at 28ft.

This is a good point: WDH's don't magically make load go away, they just shift which combination of axles are carrying it. I wouldn't tolerate not being able to carry cargo while towing, but that may be necessary to accommodate the setup with excessive tongue weight and a WD system trying to compensate.

[GGB]

........If the linked setup's description was intended to indicate that the Sienna has no Toyota tow prep package, but does have additional transmission cooling (a larger version of the stock cooler seems very unlikely as that cooler is built into the radiator "lower" tank), then it has no engine oil cooler. The owner should install and engine oil temperature gauge and watch it carefully, because Toyota believes that engine oil cooling is required (with the 2GR-FE engine) even for the load of a light trailer, so with that monster it would be easy to create far too much heat.

..............I wouldn't tolerate not being able to carry cargo while towing, but that may be necessary to accommodate the setup with excessive tongue weight and a WD system trying to compensate.

Sorry I wasn't too clear on my description of what was done. I tend to think faster than I can type and it doesn't come out right sometimes.

All V6 Siennas still have the towing package as standard, in Canada at least (confirmed on Toyota site, no option for trailer towing package). Some people think they don't as there is no trailer hitch installed as part of the package. But most manufacturers as far as I know do not include a trailer hitch in their "trailer towing package" go figure .

The Sienna in the link has an additional aftermarket transmission cooler (11" x 15" by 1", from what I remember) in addition to the stock one you referenced. As far as I know no oil temp gague just trans oil temp gauge installed.

Can Am does hitch up more than Airstreams that are heavier than factory recommended towing. They do a lot of Surveyor by Forest River trailers as well. But again I am going a bit off topic.

Gord

[kos99ngel]

By their logic, a Ford F-350 should be able to tow 30,000 lb (as long as it was one of the Airstreams which Can-Am sells) with a big WDH and a brace under the hitch receiver... and I'm sure it could for a while

30,000 wow that's a bit hard to believe I tell you!

[brian_bp]

By their logic, a Ford F-350 should be able to tow 30,000 lb (as long as it was one of the Airstreams which Can-Am sells) with a big WDH and a brace under the hitch receiver... and I'm sure it could for a while

30,000 wow that's a bit hard to believe I tell you!

Yes, that's the point. 30,000 lb is not their number, it's mine, extrapolating the degree to which Can-Am exceeds manufacturer's limits for smaller vehicles. Can-Am's limits are based on what has enough power to perform well enough to meet some unstated standard of their own, and what can be demonstrated to not fatally fail in use. By the same standard, an F-350 has enough power for 15 tons of trailer and could handle a three tons of hitch weight without bottoming out the springs, so it must be okay... right?