WDH or airbags or both?

[Zector]

I recently got a jayco 184bh, from the factory at 2700lbs. I guestimate its or will be 3100/3200 with all my stuff, well within my 2011 sienna v6 fwd limits.

I put on a E2 WDH. it has sway control build in. The WD is on the second highest setting, and the rear is still sagging enough to notice the headlights up some. The WDH is rated up to 6500 lb, the lowest E2 with sway control, so maybe a bit beefy for this use, but still recommended by equalizer.

I am thinking about going to the highest setting, or maybe try some airbags out since even now im on the lighter side of what I would like to bring (including bicycles). Would airbags be less impact on the van, or would the WDH up another setting take care of it?

Can i get some, or any inputs on airbags with towing, both with or without the WDH? Or am i being to paranoid?

Maybe some sites for good deals on airbags?

[p220sigman]

We added airbags before we got our popup due to the rear sag with our bike rack. The rack itself is pretty heavy and when we added bikes, we were scraping the hitch frequently. With the bags, the rear sags very little with the bikes and about an 1" or so with the camper attached. I don't have a WDH for the camper because we didn't get much front end rise or rear sag with the camper, so I can't advise on towing with both.

The good thing with the bags is if there is a conflict with using the bags and a WDH, you can always air the bags down, but still have them for when you aren't towing.

[brian_bp]

There's no conflict between air bags and WD, but the air bags may complicate the setup determination for the WD, depending on your approach.

I have air bags and no WD, and find that in addition to correcting the ride height, pumping up the bags stiffens the rear suspension, improving handling when towing (or hauling a load).

[shineysideup]

I recently got a jayco 184bh, from the factory at 2700lbs. I guestimate its or will be 3100/3200 with all my stuff, well within my 2011 sienna v6 fwd limits.

I put on a E2 WDH. it has sway control build in. The WD is on the second highest setting, and the rear is still sagging enough to notice the headlights up some. The WDH is rated up to 6500 lb, the lowest E2 with sway control, so maybe a bit beefy for this use, but still recommended by equalizer.

I am thinking about going to the highest setting, or maybe try some airbags out since even now im on the lighter side of what I would like to bring (including bicycles). Would airbags be less impact on the van, or would the WDH up another setting take care of it?

Can i get some, or any inputs on airbags with towing, both with or without the WDH? Or am i being to paranoid?

Maybe some sites for good deals on airbags?

I wonder if you are bending your receiver all over trying to get enough transfer. equalizer (brand) hitches are a solid metal bar ( read not much bend ) as opposed to an ezi-lift type bar that tapers down to flat spots on the end. The dealership that set me up doesn't use this type of W.D. for this reason. There is not enough "give" in the setup and will end up altering your hitch that is attached to your van ( read: bending the receiver into a new position ). Several people will disagree and love this type of setup but IMHO I believe that this is hard on the vehicle hitch and the front of the trailer. I tow a large trailer ( 25', 5500 lbs. ) hardwall. I have had my hitch reinforced to minimize the twisting forces that the W.D. puts on the hitch itself. If you really want to know what is happening you can get everything weighed at a set of transport scales to get a good indication of how much weight you are transferring ( or aren't... ). Just something to think about...

Good luck,

Shineysideup

[brian_bp]

If you really want to know what is happening you can get everything weighed at a set of transport scales to get a good indication of how much weight you are transferring ( or aren't... ).

Absolutely!

I can't imagine setting up a WD system without measuring to know what it is doing, and I am disgusted that certain dealers claim to be professionals and then set up systems with no measurements.

[shineysideup]

If you really want to know what is happening you can get everything weighed at a set of transport scales to get a good indication of how much weight you are transferring ( or aren't... ).

Absolutely!

I can't imagine setting up a WD system without measuring to know what it is doing, and I am disgusted that certain dealers claim to be professionals and then set up systems with no measurements.

We've all seen it, trucks, vans, cars with headlights pointed to the sky! Watching people installing W.D. bars at campgrounds without having to jack up the vehicle to get the bars on. How can this be transferring weight? Scary and sad...

[brian_bp]

Watching people installing W.D. bars at campgrounds without having to jack up the vehicle to get the bars on. How can this be transferring weight?

A spring must be deflected from its rest position to be applying force, so in order to transfer load the spring bars of a WD system must be forced into their operating position from wherever they sit with just the slack taken out. The idea of jacking up the back of the tug (normally using the trailer tongue jack to pull the ball (and the tug with it) using the coupler is that it changes the angle between the tug and trailer; when it sits back down, the spring bars must bend. This is not how hitches are supposed to be used, but fortunately the standards for them require substantial strength even in this direction.

So how can the bars be bent without jacking up the tug? Lots of ways:

• most WD systems connect the bars to the trailer through chains, and the chains attach to the trailer frame with "snap up brackets", which are over-centre lever arrangements that can apply lots of force (using a pry bar or handle of some sort) through a distance which may be adequate for this purpose
• some WD systems have their own unique mechanisms for this, such as the built-in lever of the Reese single-bar system
• some WD systems without chains include a specific handle to extend the spring bar providing the operator leverage to lift the bar into place with substantial force
• the spring bars are likely hooked up with the trailer still supported by the tongue jack (even when not using the tongue jack to actually lift), and when the jack is retracted the tug settles down somewhat (yes, even with a WD, anything but an air suspension should still settle down under the added load of the trailer) so the same change of angle effect occurs (to a smaller extent)

Zector, do we have axle load (weight) numbers to work with?

[Zector]

I have no actual weights, never been to a scale but its on my list. The trailer is listed at 2700lbs and my sienna is 4380. Gear give or take 300lbs, keeping things on the lighter side and I travel with empty tanks.

Since this topic has swayed some to tension on the WDH, how much tension should be on it? I did the install, and measured. It measures within the guidelines, but im not sure to bring it up one more notch or not. The E2 is adjusted by a bolted on plate, not links in a chain.

The E2 bold nothc setting I have been using does carry weight of the trailer with a little rear sag, a little less to the same ish than when i sit on the tailgate (225lb). Rides fine, no bucking or bouncing, on bumps you feel the weight bounce some. When i put it on I jack up the trailer to just above where the van normally sits with no load,and can usually put the bars on by hand with no tools, under very light to no load. Then lower the jack and it takes some weight and bars become taught.

On the next higher setting I jack the van to the same spot, but have to use the lever bar to put on the wd bars under tension. When it sits down the van looks like it has no load on it, sitting very even. But I can tell the bars are under torsion with some bend, and you can see the hitch/receiver has torque on it. The drive is a lot tighter as well. But im worried if there is to much tension on it, since I dont want to sheer off anything. Dont get me wrong im not prying all my strength with the bar to get them into place, but more than the lower setting.

It is a 3500 lb receiver, 6000lb WDH, 2700lb trailer. I understand the WD will have to be adjusted a little higher to take some load, but how much is to much? What is normal for tension for this weight? Are people reefing on the wd bars with the vehicle jacked up, or jack the vehicle way up high? On the lower setting the headlights are still fine, not pointing up, and the other way they are as if there is nothing in the van.

[brian_bp]

I agree that the holes in the plates of the Equalizer and E2 correspond to the links in the chains of most designs.

The point of a WDH is to shift load from tug's rear axle to the tug's front axle. Unless the amount of shift ("weight distribution") is being monitored, any adjustment is essentially random. Cranked so things are about to break might not be enough; barely engaged might be more than needed... depending on the details of the rig such as tug wheelbase, hitch overhang, trailer ball-to-axle length, tongue weight, front and rear tug spring stiffness, and tug (and even trailer) axle capacities. What seems right for one rig - how much the hitch needs to be jacked up to engage the WD, how much force is needed to place the bars - might be entirely wrong for another rig, even using the same hitch hardware, and of the same trailer weight. In fact, trailer weight has nothing to do with WD action or adjustment.

Clearly the best way to do the adjustment is to run the tug over a scale for axle loads without the trailer, then again with the trailer, then engage the WD and adjust it until the desired axle loads are reached. The possibly acceptable second choice is to use the ride height at each end (measure from ground to the top of the fender opening, for instance) as recommended by every WDH manufacturer's instructions.

Without knowing the effective spring rate at the wheel of both front and rear suspensions, it is still not possible to accurately determining what is happening to axle loads from just those heights, but some reasonable adjustment can be done to sensible targets within limits.

The usual instruction (including for the E2, which has one of the best sets of instructions that I have seen) is to adjust so that the front of the tug rides almost as low as it did without the trailer, which means that the WD system is shifting the almost same load off of the front axle as the trailer added. The rear, on the other hand, will be lower than it was without the trailer, but not as low as it would be with the trailer and no WD. The result of the two is that the tug will be in a more tail-down angle than it was without the trailer, and that's how it is supposed to be; if it were at the same angle as without the trailer that would mean the front is carrying too much load.

I noticed that - like essentially every WD head - the e2 includes an angle adjustment (they use an "angle set bolt" and spacer washers) so that the combination of this angle and the bracket adjustment determines the bend in the spring bars for a given height. It looks like a finer adjustment than the bracket holes, and both adjustments are needed to get the bars in a suitable position (nearly parallel to the trailer frame) while exerting the right force.


Essentially, my point is that without either axle loads or front and rear height changes measured, there's no way to know of the WD system is set up properly.

[Zector]

Ahhh that is what those washers are for! I had no idea, just had the default number on the instructions. So if i want to tighten it up slightly, I would have to add a washer or 2? Do i need to take the big bolts out, I had to get a shop to put them on for me and might be.....tight!

As for ride, the shank is slightly a bit high, but still somewhat low for clearance on the hitch, the TT has a slightly nose up angle, slightly not a lot. Will that hurt anything?


Thanks for the info!

[brian_bp]

Ahhh that is what those washers are for! I had no idea, just had the default number on the instructions. So if i want to tighten it up slightly, I would have to add a washer or 2? Do i need to take the big bolts out, I had to get a shop to put them on for me and might be.....tight!

I would change by one washer at a time, but maybe that's just me.

The big bolts don't need to come out: the bottom bolt just has to be loose enough for the head to pivot on it, and the top bolt just needs to be loose enough for the head's slot to slide past the bolt a bit. Long wrenches are your friend! You only need one really long one for the nut and one not so long (probably the same opening size) for the bolt head. I would use a socket and flex handle for one of the wrenches, in part because I have them; flex handles are usually longer than ratchet handles and more durable.

Are you using the same instructions as on the manufacturer's web site: Fastway - Product Support? They go through the process of adding or subtracting washers.

As for ride, the shank is slightly a bit high, but still somewhat low for clearance on the hitch, the TT has a slightly nose up angle, slightly not a lot. Will that hurt anything?

"Slightly" is okay, but nose-up pitch reduces tongue weight with a single-axle trailer (which I believe the Jay Flight Swift SLX 184BH is).Typical trailer leaf-spring suspensions are very crude, and nose-up angle make the geometry even worse for stability, especially in a single-axle. The usual recommendation is as close to level as reasonably reachable, but not nose-up.