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2005 Sienna XLE Engine Died

9K views 42 replies 16 participants last post by  Joe Sienna 
#1 ·
Hi - I bought this vehicle in 2007 with about 36,000 miles. It's been an everyday driver until about 2014 at which point it was an extra vehicle used for family road trips. Nearly all maintenance has been done at the dealer, to include synthetic oil changes at an average of every 6500 miles (two at 11,000 miles and a bunch at 4, 5, or 6000 miles, etc). At just under 190,000, the engine is dead and they're telling me there's excessive sludge in the motor, typically indicative of a motor that was neglected. This doesn't sound right for a Toyota that has been maintained regularly. Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks! -Dave
 
#2 ·
Sludge happens, but it's worth your effort to take the van to a recommended independent to find out exactly what happened and if anything can be done. Sludge is a condition. It does not define exactly what died.
 
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#4 ·
Ouch, davebeller, sorry you're having to deal with that!

No, sludge is not a common failure mode for the 2GR-FE engine, that I know of. The 2GR-FE does have its pattern failures, though. Toyota does have a bit of history with sludge problems, and the 3.0L 1MZ-FE was one of the major culprits, with the related 3.3L 3MZ-FE maybe having a little tendency there too.

That said, I don't do extended oil drains on my 3MZ-FE or my 2GR-FE because of Toyota's history with sludge.

What symptoms did you have? What exactly broke?

I'd suggest getting a second opinion.

- G
 
#6 ·
No, sludge is not a common failure mode for the 2GR-FE engine, that I know of. The 2GR-FE does have its pattern failures, though. Toyota does have a bit of history with sludge problems, and the 3.0L 1MZ-FE was one of the major culprits, with the related 3.3L 3MZ-FE maybe having a little tendency there too.
The OP has a 3.3L mill in his 2005. That's why I said 'sludge happens'. Still, it might be savable.
 
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#9 ·
The smell was like something burning. Also, I left out two kinda big things;
1. The engine oil light had come on the week prior (I had never seen this indicator before).
2. The vehicle was just serviced by the dealer prior to this trip in which it broke down. Oil change and multi point inspection, etc. I had already planned on this service as it was due so didn't worry about the engine oil indicator but did make them aware when it went in for service. Anyway, after the service, the vehicle sat for a few days (this isn't an everyday driver) and then we went on a day trip about 2 1/2 hours away. On the way home, about 30 minutes before the 1st break down, that engine oil light had come back on. From that point on, it pretty much stayed on. Finally, there's no oil spot whatsoever where I park.
 
#12 ·
So, my take on "sludge" from a dealer service rep is that the tech told him the oil pump clogged up and died. It could have been dead for any number of reasons. Whatever the reason though, when the oil pressure light came on, your engine death was almost certain at that point. It might be possible to save the engine, but, if you're paying dealer prices, it won't come cheap. If it seized, though, at 14 years and 200k miles for a second vehicle, I'd consider the vehicle toast. It will make a nice addition for those like me looking for Gen-2 Sienna parts in the scrapyard.
 
#14 ·
It's not seized. It'll start right up.

Also, I'm far from a DIY. If anything, I wish I could part it out. I've taken good care of this thing and, at this point, my Weathertech mats are probably worth more. I bought additional headphones, a 2nd center console for the second row.

There's a 2nd Toyota dealer in the area I could potentially take it to. I was also seeking advice from a friend whose family owns a Toyota dealer somewhere in Colorado and he definitely thinks I should take it to get another opinion at this other dealer nearby.
 
#16 ·
The dealer knew about the "oil light" when you brought it in for service; was there anything on the receipt that acknowledges they checked why the "oil light" was on? Does the receipt show how much oil was used to fill your van?

I would find an independent shop that is willing to do more inspection. I'm not buying the sludge but who knows. I know one thing is I would not return to that Toyota dealership.
 
#17 ·
The dealer knew about the "oil light" when you brought it in for service; was there anything on the receipt that acknowledges they checked why the "oil light" was on? Does the receipt show how much oil was used to fill your van?

I would find an independent shop that is willing to do more inspection. I'm not buying the sludge but who knows. I know one thing is I would not return to that Toyota dealership.
You know, this is a great question. I'm told that these places uses a separate crew that does 'express' work (oil changes, etc.) and not the guys that troubleshoot issues. I checked receipt and saw nothing about them looking into the oil light. I've called the service manager just now and asked him this and he's gonna dig around a little to confirm what, if anything, was done. If nothing was done, I'm unsure what options I'd have if they make no efforts to correct this outside of contacting some consumer protection agency. What a pain in the ass.
 
#24 ·
Really not sure what I should do. The current dealer is telling me, even if they investigated the oil light initially, I'd still be where I am today.

I totally get the 2nd opinion thing but I feel like I’m kinda screwed either way. I could pay $75 to have it towed to the other Toyota dealer, pay another $150 for assessment and then pay many hundred more to get it repaired at which point my trust in the van would probably be lost at this point.
 
#32 ·
The 1MZ and 3MZ are known to have this issue and in fact there was a class action suite on it
Adding to me previous post - Sludge remediation regimen: Toyota 3MZ-FE V6

The 1MZ was really bad but the 3MZ is not much better
The Wikipedia link notes that the previous gen's 1MZ engine had a class action lawsuit against it, not the 3MZ.
The BITOG link eventually determined that the OP's Highlander didn't have a sludge problem. Rather, it just had a normal, crusty, valve cover oil filler baffle.

I totally get the 2nd opinion thing but I feel like I’m kinda screwed either way. I could pay $75 to have it towed to the other Toyota dealer, pay another $150 for assessment and then pay many hundred more to get it repaired at which point my trust in the van would probably be lost at this point.
You got 150,000 miles out of a used van. It sounds like you're ready to walk away from it and no one could blame you. Since it starts up and drives, you could list it on Craig's List or whatever and easily get $500 for it.
 
#27 ·
Has anyone here ever heard of a diesel flush? A old-timer explained it to me as to where a sludged engine can be brought back to life by putting diesel fuel in the crankcase and running it for a few minutes at a time before draining it and refilling it with fresh diesel. The way he explained it, the diesel fuel will desolve the sludge and clean the engine. The lubricating properties of the diesel will keep the engine from destroying itself while idling. I have no idea if it works, but it might be worth a try for the OP if all other hope has been lost.

Tom
 
#30 ·
In the old car hobby, countless people use countless things to "clean out" the engine. Almost none of it works all that well. I've heard people use diesel, ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil (which is ATF with wintergreen oil in it), gas, water vapor in the intake, and many other things. In the end, either the oil pump was clogged and burned itself out or it's clogged and needs replacement or it died and won't pump oil or the engine is sludged up from the dealer's oil change crew slacking off or it's not sludged up, but something else happened which starved the engine of oil or any number of other things. If the OP has AAA, have them tow it to an independent mechanic, pay them $150 to check it out and work from there. This dealer has proven that they either have a terrible service department, have an underhanded sales department or both.
 
#35 ·
I do know of a couple of these indi places but I often will take a vehicle to a dealer not because I trust them more but because I know they know the vehicle. Regardless of where it is, not being one to repair these myself, I'm at the mercy of whatever they tell me as are many people, sadly.
 
#31 ·
I have an 07 Sienna Limited. At 95,000 miles the rear differential burned up, along with driveshaft. Then all four coil springs found to be broken, along with struts, shock replacement. And now only 107k on the thing.
Toyota seems to be taking the route of American vehicles> that is, they are junk.
 
#33 ·
Weird. Several members on this site have 200K–300K miles on their vans with no major repairs. Considering the failed suspension components on your van, did it lead a particularly rough life? Yeah, AWD vans have more powertrain parts to fail but spring breakage on all four corners @ 95K miles isn't normal.
 
#37 ·
I would never do the "engine flush" based on experiences of members of the antique car club I was in. A coule of the guys thought it would save them money/time so they would not need to do a rebuild on their engines. When they did the flush they bragged about how clean their oil was. That didn't last long (nor did their engines) because the flush loosened and softened up a lot of sludge, Not all of the loosened stuff came out at the shop but did come loose when they drove the cars. There was enough left inside to clog the oil pump strainer mesh and stop pump output.

DO NOT IGNORE THE OIL LIGHT! When I got my Sienna I gave my grandson my '94 Suburban with 345,000 on it. It ran well, but him being a millenial kid, he didn't pay attention to the oil light on or the oil pressure gauge. He seized the engine at highway speed. When his dad ckecked it out there was zero oil or coolant in the engine.
 
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