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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Hey Venture,

Great you've come so far already!! Amazing. Stay on it and post back. Would be very helpful for my problem as well.

Thanks again for the time and effort you've spent.

v/r

Frank
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Mostly bad news, and some good news:

In short - the seat computer isn't the problem.

Ok - here's an update. After much gnashing of teeth, I was able to get the computer out of the backseat. This was complicated by the fact that the seat back was down. What that meant was I needed to disconnect the seat back from the base frame. To do that, I needed to remove the entire plastic fascia from the interior of the car. Fortunately, I have an older 2006 manual - so it wasn't too bad. (If you need information on how to do this, I can provide the steps).

After pulling the computer, I found that it was encased in a single peace of bonded plastic. This meant that I wouldn't be able to take the circuit board out without pretty much destroying the case. I decided against that. Since I knew the right hand seat worked - and was the same part number, I decided I would swap computers to see if that made a difference. This meant pretty much unwrapping the right hand seat (pretty easy since I had done the left - but was time consuming). After swapping the computers - I found that the seat still did NOT work. I also tried putting the computer from the left side into the right side. I found out some interesting things. Ultimately, the computer from the left DOES work on the right hand side. I did notice that the computer does some work in timing the movement of the bottom section of the seat (moving into the bay) with the folding action of the seat back. It also detects if there is a problem with the seat back not being in the correct state (over deployed).

I'm wondering if there is a case in which the seat could be put into a state that the computer could not correct for - and therefore stuck in an "error state". I think there is a real possibility that is the issue with the left hand seat.

Anyway, I also decided I wanted to test the left hand seat back motor. My first hypothesis was that the computer was bad - that proved to be wrong. My second hypothesis was that the seat back motor was burned out or the gears stripped. I was able to find the power leads in the bottom of the bay with a multimeter - and applied the leads directly to the motor power leads (after removing the plug). This caused the motor to drive (in one direction only). So the good news was that I could manually deploy the seat back (BTW - don't try this at home unless you're comfortable with electricity - you're liable to get a nasty shock - or killed).

So the good news is that I've eliminated two possible culprits - the bad news is I'm back to square one - I don't know what's causing it. The shift of my investigation will be back to the bottom part of the seat - I'm wondering if there's a signaling chip or unit that is messed up there. I'm really understanding now why the shop just wants to charge an arm and a leg to replace the system, not diagnosing the problem - it's a lot of work!

BTW - wear gloves if you mess around with the seatbacks - the frames are made of aluminum forms that have VERY sharp edges - I cut my finger pretty badly on one.

- V
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

BTW Frank,

After working on the seats for a couple of weeks - I can confirm for you that the problem on the left side has nothing to do with the seat sub frame for the right hand '40' side. They are not at all related. Don't let the dealership fool you into having that side replaced.

- V
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Frank,

After reading your message again, I'm going to switch focus back to that "switch" piece on the sub-frame. I'll check that next - it's an $73 part (84923). If it's just a standard switch, I might be able to jury rig a radio shack switch to see if it's the culprit. If it is, then we can order just that part (personally, I don't see how it could be that simple).

I'll let you know what I find out.

- V
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

GREAT work and sleuthing [venture]!! ::thumbsup!!::
I'm passing around some popcorn... ;D 8)
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

High Venture,

again - great work!


Let's analyze a little bit (I'm pretty much convinced, you did all of this already):

facts (problem):
- the left hand (60%) side doesn't work (for both of us that is! - why the left and not the right? -- is there anybody out there with the other side (40%) not working?)

- the seat cushion DOES move up and down, but the seat back is inop,

- the 'error' light comes up (i.e. there is a malfunction sensored),

- the right hand side is still operable to its full extent (i.e. not affected).

findings (facts dug out by you):
- the computer works on both sides and thus is not defective,

- the motor is still operable (via some tricks),

- the sub-frame itself doesn't seem to be damaged,

- the power button is not affected (it is responsible for moving the cushion as well...).


ideas:
- there is some problem in the 'handover' of motion from the cushion motion to the seatback motion,
- either the 'cushion is up' sensor or the 'seatback is down' sensor may be inop,
- or the associated cabling has a problem (bad soldering joint?)


Hope this helps...


Frank
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Hi Frank,

I talked this over with a buddy of mine - and we both came up with exactly the same list you did. I'm going to check over the 3 items:

1. "there is some problem in the 'handover' of motion from the cushion motion to the seatback motion,"
There appears to be a sensor on each motor - if you noticed the bottom motor, there should be two lead plugs going into the motor. One is the 12V DC lead...the other is presumably the sensor lead.

Not exactly sure how to fix if it is that problem. Also, I don't think there's a separate part for the motor or sensor lead. We may both be forced to purchase the entire frame with the motor.

2. "- either the 'cushion is up' sensor or the 'seatback is down' sensor may be inop,"

If you watch the timing on the right hand seat, you might be able to guess what the proper sequence should be. In any case, I will try to get the seat into the 'completely deployed' state. I'm hoping the computer will go to some default mode and reset. In any case, switching the computer to a seat that is already in the 'completely deployed' state - doesn't seem to mess the computer up at all.

3. "- or the associated cabling has a problem (bad soldering joint?)"

I'm going to do continuity tests on the cables. My friend thinks that some of the cable connects may have broken due to the seat going up and down.

- V
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Hi Venture,

Any news on this topic?

I'm still holding breath that you will have a breakthrough discovery in solving this problem.

But nevertheless, I would like to thank you for the research you've already done. This will definitely help owners like me to understand the problem better and make a decision based on common knowledge (i.e. the knowledge of particularly this forum) and not solely on Toyota representatives...

That said, still, any news?

vr

Frank
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

I'm happy another member pointed out this thread (I had searched for '3rd seat' not 'third seat' so didn't find it).

Anyway, our 06 has failed on the '40' side. Luckily we do have the extended warranty so I'll be bringing the car in the near future to have it fixed. I'll try to see if I can get any information on what the actual failure is / minimum replacement.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

michelb said:
...
Anyway, our 06 has failed on the '40' side. Luckily we do have the extended warranty so I'll be bringing the car in the near future to have it fixed. I'll try to see if I can get any information on what the actual failure is / minimum replacement.
We got ours fixed last night. I didn't speak to the mechanic but the invoice said 'CAUSE: broken spring in return mechanism CORRECTION: repair spring and adjust latch cable'. I've tried it a few times and so far it seems fixed. I'll let you know if it holds up after a bit more use.

Hope this helps.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

michelb said:
michelb said:
...
Anyway, our 06 has failed on the '40' side. Luckily we do have the extended warranty so I'll be bringing the car in the near future to have it fixed. I'll try to see if I can get any information on what the actual failure is / minimum replacement.
We got ours fixed last night. I didn't speak to the mechanic but the invoice said 'CAUSE: broken spring in return mechanism CORRECTION: repair spring and adjust latch cable'. I've tried it a few times and so far it seems fixed. I'll let you know if it holds up after a bit more use.

Hope this helps.
How much did it end up costing you? My 40 side is down too.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

likwid8 said:
michelb said:
michelb said:
...
Anyway, our 06 has failed on the '40' side. Luckily we do have the extended warranty so I'll be bringing the car in the near future to have it fixed. I'll try to see if I can get any information on what the actual failure is / minimum replacement.
We got ours fixed last night. I didn't speak to the mechanic but the invoice said 'CAUSE: broken spring in return mechanism CORRECTION: repair spring and adjust latch cable'. I've tried it a few times and so far it seems fixed. I'll let you know if it holds up after a bit more use.

Hope this helps.
How much did it end up costing you? My 40 side is down too.
Sorry, forgot to mention that. They charged me 1 hours labour (around $100 in our area).
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

michelb said:
michelb said:
...
Anyway, our 06 has failed on the '40' side. Luckily we do have the extended warranty so I'll be bringing the car in the near future to have it fixed. I'll try to see if I can get any information on what the actual failure is / minimum replacement.
We got ours fixed last night. I didn't speak to the mechanic but the invoice said 'CAUSE: broken spring in return mechanism CORRECTION: repair spring and adjust latch cable'. I've tried it a few times and so far it seems fixed. I'll let you know if it holds up after a bit more use.

Hope this helps.
FYI, the 'repair' lasted approximately 1 week until it failed again. Have to go in to get it re-fixed but haven't done it yet because we haven't really had the time, they couldn't see us immediately when I called and after much pulling / pushing / trying I managed to get the 40 side back up and we NEED it up for a vacation we are going on this weekend and I didn't want them to mess with it in case they can't get it back up.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Our third row 40 side had this problem, brought it into the dealer last month, dealer (service advisor) originally quoted $795 to repair (parts and labor).

Prior to bringing the car in, I had read this thread, and simply stated to the service advisor, that it is "ABSOLUTELY OURTRAGEOUS" for Toyota to tell customers that they need to spend $800 DOLLARS for a part that is rarely operated (less than 100 times) and that is only 3 years old. Also mentioned that mileage is irrelevant (we are just 3 months out of warranty, but we have alot of miles 65,000+) because the part has nothing to do with how many miles are on the car. Furthermore, since there is a TSB out on this item, Toyota KNOWS there is a problem and has already listed the fix.

He then asks me if I would like him to contact Toyota to see if they can do anything. I told him yes and that it would be much appreciated. He said he'd probably have an answer for me by Monday (it was late Friday). Well, a couple of hours later I went to pick up my Sienna from the dealership after work, and he said he already got an answer back: Toyota would pay for the part, IF I agreed to pay for the labor which he said would be $330 or less. I told him I would agree, IF this really would fix the problem and that I would NOT be charged if they found out it was something else. He stated yes, so I agreed.

I also learned from the service advisor that the TSB notes the problem is apparently a damaged (misaligned?) frame that is binding so much that the motor cannot unfold the seat. And, since the part number for the replacement frame is actually different from the original seat frame, Toyota may have likely redesigned the frame a little to fix the problem from happening again. The dealership actually had to sublet the work out to a local car upholstery shop because the work required that the whole seat (leather, cushions, etc) be taken off the original frame then put back on the new frame.

Bottom line: Labor was $325 and problem appears fixed (I made that chair go up and down about 10 times before I left the dealer, and a few times more since then). It only took 2 days for the part to come in, and 1 day to get it fixed, they paid for my rental for the one day it was in the shop. I was very tempted to "bitch" some more to Toyota customer service, but I figure I've probably gotten all I'm gonna get out of them, and I'm tired of dealing with car problems and I'm glad it's just fixed.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

ucsdtriton, glad to hear you got it fixed (although it's a shame they didn't cover the full amount). Let us know if it keeps working for you.

Does anyone have the number for the TSB?

Let us know, thanks.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Hi Im new to this forum. I am now having this problem after transporting some furniture. Seems like somehow something was damaged. It wasnt heavy furniture by any means.

I know someone was trying to see if they could diy, but havent seen any update on it. Has anyone heard if there is a diy fix? I just bought this 2006 limited about a month and a half ago and am really bummed this has happened. I will call Toyota dealer and see what they say.
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

Just got back from the dealer.. of course they looked at it and said they need to tear it apart to see whats up. They want me to give them $100 for the diagnostic fee, which will go toward the repairs. Does anyone have info on the TSB for this problem? I want to discuss it with them before spending the money to get this done.

thanks,
Chris
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

I tried to mess with it yesterday before taking it to dealer and really couldnt get far in taking the panels and the leather off, so I decided to bite my lip and take it to the dealer today. They called a few hours later and told us that some clips were broken causing it to not open up and needed to be replaced. The total cost to fix this was $165 out the door. I show 2 clips on the receipt were replaced, both which are the same part number:
90467-10161

Its a $3.17 part.. lol.. Maybe in the future if this happens again, I can do it myself.

Also, be aware that too much weight or weight in the wrong spot on these chairs can cause the clips to break. We put down the seats to transport a bed to my inlaws, and the bed is not that heavy, but somehow maybe I stepped on the seat wrong while loading or unloading it.. I didnt realize there was a problem with putting some weight on these chairs, as I thought that was the whole reason of being able to stow the seats.. very odd indeed..

Anyway, I hope this helps someone out in the future.

Chris
2006 Sienna Limited
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

cheezehead said:
I tried to mess with it yesterday before taking it to dealer and really couldnt get far in taking the panels and the leather off, so I decided to bite my lip and take it to the dealer today. They called a few hours later and told us that some clips were broken causing it to not open up and needed to be replaced. The total cost to fix this was $165 out the door. I show 2 clips on the receipt were replaced, both which are the same part number:
90467-10161

Its a $3.17 part.. lol.. Maybe in the future if this happens again, I can do it myself.

Also, be aware that too much weight or weight in the wrong spot on these chairs can cause the clips to break. We put down the seats to transport a bed to my inlaws, and the bed is not that heavy, but somehow maybe I stepped on the seat wrong while loading or unloading it.. I didnt realize there was a problem with putting some weight on these chairs, as I thought that was the whole reason of being able to stow the seats.. very odd indeed..

Anyway, I hope this helps someone out in the future.

Chris
2006 Sienna Limited
Thanks for the info. I'm surprised that those clips would make that much difference but I'll check on mine (mine still screws up periodically). Here's a pic of the clip http://www.clipsandfasteners.com/Toyota_GM_Trim_Board_Retainer_p/a18876.htm
 

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Re: 2006 Sienna XLE Limited...third row problems.

seriously that is what was replaced? wow..

they also said they ended up having to reprogram the seat computer as well.. maybe a clip broke and a piece got caught in the gears or motor? seems kind of unlikely, but thats all I can think of..
 
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