I have heard of only one or two other problems in the following thread:

http://siennachat.com/forum/index.php/topic,2853.0.html

Most unfortunate.... sounds like a failed component in the transmission. Today's transmissions have what is called limp mode. When a problem is sensed, the ECU will trigger this mode and only allow the transmission to go into first gear for safety.

The good news is the dealer should fix it free under warranty. You may also get a loaner from them or the cost of a loaner car/van could be covered under your car insurance.

 

My 2010 transmission failed at 92,000 and we had to replace the vehicle. The dealer we bought it from gave us $9,000 trade in value on a new Sienna van and paid to transport the 2010 van from our mechanic to the dealership.

 

My 2010 with 65,000 kms (not miles) had its transmission replaced under warranty. i heared this hissing sound when in lower speeds or when the van shifted down. they said the 3rd and 4th gears were worn down. i have driven Toyotas for over 20 years and this is only the 2nd Toyota giving me problems. only other problem with a Toyota i had was with an '89 corolla where the timing belt snapped. Toyotas are good and better than most makes but they are not perfect.

 

did some searching and hoping mine is not transmission related but here goes:

My new to me 2009 Sienna LE, bought from Hyundai dealer at 58K miles; currently has 61K miles.
Recently did the 3x drain refill of the tranny fluid (used Toyota WS).
Drove couple miles between each drain/refill... 3rd drain/refill done on May 23... i also changed the drain bolt to one with a magnet tip.
issue: just recently (past few days) i have noticed mostly when taking my foot off of the gas pedal at around 40MPH, a very faint hissing sound coming from the engine bay; initially i thought it was wind noise... i have a bug shield which i took off and confirmed the faint hissing noise still present; revving the engine while parked/in neutral did not produce any audible hissing sound; my next test would be to jack up the front 2 tires, put in drive and bring it up to speed (40MPH) with the help of an assistant of course and for me to try and pinpoint the source of the noise.

Question: am i being overly paranoid by the above quoted text from 2013 that there is a possibility that the transmission (3rd of 4th gear since I hear the faint hissing sound around 40MPH only when off the gas pedal) is starting to go bad? did the 3x drain/refill of the WS fluid do more harm than good? (I did notice smoother shifts and the level is correct (drained 4 Quarts and refilled with 4 Quarts each time). Should I do one more drain/refill and put back the original drain bolt (could it be that the one I put in with the magnet is causing some strange issue)? is this a vacuum leak perhaps? what would you recommend at this stage? I believe power train is warranted thru 60K miles, correct?)

thanks.

:frown:

 

Update:
Took the car into my local Toyota dealership yesterday; they said transmission and wheel bearings all check out fine.
Shop foreman confirmed the whirling noise with a test drive with me and determined almost a day later that the whirling noise was due to the tires (even though they are relatively brand new (less than 5K miles since February of this year when they were installed by another dealer whom I brought it from). He said they are cupping.
These are Uniroyal Tiger Paw Touring tires; they are saying that they have aggressive tread pattern and advise to replace all for a quieter ride.
They even swapped all 4 tires with 4 Michelin's (so happened that there was another Sienna in for service) and confirmed the noise was gone then.

I am happy it is not the transmission or something with the engine. I've called Uniroyal support and opened a warranty case; will be taking it in to America's Tire (they can process warranty claims) later this week for an inspection of their own and they will work directly with Uniroyal to see what can be done.
Not sure if I got a bad set of tires or these are inferior brand altogether in which case I do not think I'd want to replace them with the same brand.

Anybody happen to have or heard of this issue with Uniroyal Tiger Paws?

 

Happy to hear it's not a real drivetrain problem.

While it's true that a more aggressive blocky pattern can be more susceptible to cupping/feathering, I'd take a good look at your alignment and general condition of your suspension before putting on new tires. Worn shocks/struts that allow the tire to get into a regular 'bounce' pattern combined with high toe-in will be tough on the tread.

 

Logical reasoning, but then why did the noise disappear when they put on 4 Michelins? I did not confirm it then (Toyota tech did) but will take the proof/paperwork into America's Tire and if they for some reason do NOT think the tires are bad in any fashion then I will investigate further into suspension components. The dealer whom I brought it from did a 4 wheel alignment as well back late January.

 

A suspension problem wears your tires unevenly, resulting in cupping. The cupped tread on the road surface creates the noise you hear. I had this happen on a Toyota Corolla years ago.

When they put on the new(er) set of tires that they 'borrowed' from the other van that were in good shape, you didn't hear the sound. But if you drove on them for a few thousand miles, the problem may repeat. If you have a suspension issue you may damage those tires, and again hear unusual road noise.

I'm just suggesting that you look deeper to see if there is a real root cause. An alignment is a heck of a lot cheaper than a set of tires every 5k miles!

 

Understood.. But what are the chances that the wheel alignment done by the dealer whom I bought it from after they put on these tires has gone bad since? I have only put 4000 miles roughly on it since and have not hit any major potholes and kept them inflated at the proper PSI.
Could the alignment been done incorrectly to begin with?

 

I called my Toyota dealer asking if they by any chance checked for alignment before testing out the car with the Michelin and the answer was YES. All measures were within specs... They did not provide me not mention this in the paper report so I asked for it earlier today and here it is (attached picture).

This definitely points more fingers at the tires themselves and should be more than enough information for America's Tire to file the appropriate warranty claim with Uniroyal. Hopefully I can get a new set of Michelins instead after all is said and done.

 

Wheel alignment is complex. If you read thru Toyota's procedure, it involves checking the stance and height of each corner, shock rebound tests, physically inspecting for overall bushing wear and tightness, etc. prior to beginning the alignment itself. And it's done on a rack that ensures the vehicle is 'square'. Instead of all that, most dealers use the reception lane hub units that give an OK reading but lack all the rest of the checks for wear. A vehicle alignment may be OK in a static mode, and yet bounce down the road. So the net is I put limited value in the quick eval system.

When you go to the tire shop they are likely to look deeper before accepting responsibility for bad tires. I still think you'd be wise to get an independent shop's opinion.

 

Not wanting to beat a dead horse here, but here's how this might play out.

1) You get the tire shop to agree to the pro-rated warranty on the tires. You'll get 90% credit towards a new purchase, but typically you are still responsible for mounting, balancing & tax. It may still cost you $150 or so.

2) They fight you and you go off and buy 4 new Michelin Defenders or something similar. Now you are out $500-$600.

All may be well (it was crappy Uniroyal tires). But what if it is a suspension issue and you kill these new tires in 5k miles?

Would you have been better served to look for an on-line $20 off alignment coupon from Meineke or similar and for $70 net get the whole suspension checked out?

 

You read my mind, was thinking about the Michelin Defenders
But you make a very good point. I will get a second alignment check.

 

It has been a long day and it is only 3pm now...

Took the van to America's Tire- their visual analysis was that the Uniroyal were not cupped nor abnormally worn... Got a price quote for 4 Michelin defender tires... 487 out the door...
Went to Les Schwab right after to get second 4 wheel alignment check... All checks out good (see attached)...

Went back to America's tire and had the Michelin Defenders installed.... An hour later it was done, while driving home noise was still present.... You can imagine how happy I was then...
Went back to America's tire, explained to manager my situation and he agreed to refund and take back the Michelin defender tires and mount the Uniroyal back on... A bit of a relief since the whine is not from the tires but still down 120 bucks for the labor/mounting.

So at this stage you can imagine how furious I was at my local Toyota dealer for diagnosing and recommending to get 4 new tires....
Right after the Uniroyal tires were mounted (another hour), went straight to the Toyota dealer.... Spoke to the master tech, test drove with him... His analysis is that the tires are making a thumping noise and the drive train is making the whine noise from final drive of transaxle around 35-40 mph, which is normal. I asked them to clarify this on the service order since the initial one did not (see attached) for future reference in case the whine worsens, which he expects it not to...

I had done a 3 X drain and fill of the automatic WS fluid before I had noticed this transaxle noise...
What do you guys recommend? Live with it and be happy?
I was thinking of doing 1 more drain and fill of the WS fluid and see if that helps by any chance...

Few hits on Google when searching for whine noise after auto transmission fluid change, such as this one http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1304853-transmission-whine-after-fluid-and-filter-change.html

Anybody know if the transmission filter can be easily dislodged with a simple drain and fill routine on a Sienna?! and if so this could be causing the whining noise?

 

Wow, what an adventure!

The transmission filter is a bolt-on unit in the pan, and can't be dislodged by anything you would have done.

Final drive section, they say now? Does the tone or intensity change when you are on the gas versus off the gas (leading vs. lagging)? Long ago I had something like that on my Toyota Camry, but it got progressively worse when you lifted. Finally I had the tranny torn down, and the races & bearings replaced. The races had hollow spots, and were scoring the roller bearings.

 

Tone and intensity more pronounced when letting off the gas, and the technician affirmed it as well. Probably due to less road noise from tires etc.

Not looking forward to dismantling the tranny, at only 61K miles, I may try one more drain and fill of the WS fluid and live with it... I do appreciate your advice and expertise... It looks like you may know more than some of the Toyota techs.

 

At least they've now documented it. I had a year long battle with my local dealer over it, and at first they denied hearing it, then I got the tired old line "they all do that...". Yeah, right. So after the 5/60k powertrain warranty expired and it became truly evident that it was in self-destruct mode I ended up footing the bill for the repair. Appeals to district and national got me nothing, so start your campaign early! That was at maybe 65k or so.

At the microscopic level moving metal parts that are under stress wear into regular patterns. When you lift off the gas there is a relaxation in how they are pressed together, and they are no longer held into that pattern. With time mine wore so oddly as bumps and voids formed, that they hummed and would 'sing' when I lifted. The exact pitch was road speed dependent, which lead us to dive right into the final drive. It's a little hard to describe, but analogous to the way a tire might wear if you never rotated it. Then change it's position and direction after 25k miles and listen to how odd it sounds on the road.

Keep on them if you believe the sound is getting worse.

 

What still puzzles me is why this noise started right after the 3 X drain and fill routine of WS fluid.
Coincidence or?

 

Are you seeing anything unusual in the fluid you remove? While it's typically good to change the fluid often, there is a school of thought that something bad could happen when fresh fluid breaks loose something old and cruddy, and it finds it's way to the worst possible place.

Toyota generally frowns on the use of flush machines. And yet my dealer has one and without a doubt, my old Sienna shifted better after giving it a try. They use a solvent cocktail that might free up something that got fouled.

Impossible to tell without taking it apart....

 

Nope. Doing the 4th drain and fill as we speak... Left it draining will take a picture of the fluid after my dentist apt.
Previous 3 drain and fill routines fluid was dark red (not brownish nor burnt smell to it)
I always give the drain routine (oil, transmission, etc) all the time needed to drain as much as possible...

Just completed the dealership customer survey while waiting for the dentist. .. Guess what good things I had to say!

I will call the Toyota customer experience center and see where that takes me.
Do you happen to have the national/regional Toyota numbers handy?

 

Old vs new fluid. Nothing out of the ordinary from my point of view. This is the 4th drain and fill with Toyota WS fluid within a matter of 1000 miles driven since the 1st one on May 14.
Unfortunately the whine is still there.... I have another 4 quarts of WS fluid but I don't think will put them to use at this time.

 

Anybody tried/has experience with Redline D4 ATF fluid?
Quiet a few online posts in regards to auto transaxle whine in various Toyota cars, and the Toyota dealer saying it is normal powertrain noise, even one guy test driving new Corollas off the lot with the same tranmission/differential gear whine including a 2012 corolla and most if not all point to the fact that WS fluid is very thin / viscous sine the trannies were initially specced for Type T-IV pre-2009...

Some had positive results with the whine disappearing after using Redline D4.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2309857/2

 

We've had a lot of discussions on this board before on Toyota's choice of WS. I'm not a tranny fluid guru, but I have enough fluids and lubricants understanding to believe that this would be a generally poor choice.

Toyota switched the U151 over to WS for the 2007 models. Looking at rebuild kits, I don't see any differentiation in parts, so it doesn't look like a lot changed internally. However, I was told that the TCU software was very different to accommodate the changes in clamping forces required for the differences in fluid characteristics. Toyota's TSB warns of shift flair and other issues if you use T-IV in a WS application.

If you go to various sources, you can find Brookfield and Kinematic Viscosity index data, but not much on friction modifiers, anti-oxidants and other things that go into creating an 'engineered fluid'. Choose the wrong stuff, and you can make a real mess of your transmission. WS is indeed very light. T-IV is medium weight, the old Dextron-III has a higher index. If you look at Red Line's page for D4, you will see generally higher index numbers (although I don't understand their Brookfield value - it's off the charts.... gotta be wrong or something). If you look at Redline's recommendations down the right side, D4 is definitely intended for older applications like T-IV and into older Dex/Merc territory. http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=51&pcid=9

So could it help you to toss out the book and go experiment? Maybe, if you are going after a specific problem and can live with what new issues might present themselves. How much long term data is out there to support your quest?

 

Their application guide actually recommend the lower viscosity D6 fluid.
http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=115&pcid=9

I was hoping the higher viscosity fluid (D4 or even high-temp ATF) would help in eliminating the final drive whine noise but certainly not at the expense of other issues (harsher shifts, etc.)
Still undecided on what to do but most likely will leave it as is based on the numerous posts online about other folks hearing final auto drive-train whine noise in various Toyota models and folks stating that Toyota even knows about this issue but not sure what is the plan to address.

 

Good to hear they recommend D6 in place of WS and not D4. As I said, the spec sheet numbers indicate (to me) that it would not be a suitable replacement.

Years ago before I understood any of this stuff, I inadvertently went the other way. Valvoline MaxLife bills itself as a 'universal' fluid, and says you can use it in replacement for virtually everything from WS to Dex-II/III. It has an actual weight of right around WS (super thin). So I put a few jugs into my 2002 Subaru and nearly tore the thing to pieces. It went from beautiful to severe shift shock and judder in zero time, and the fluid turned black with clutch material particulates. It took a 'line off' flush to clear it out (lucky to have not fouled the valve body) and replace it with a singular heavier weight formula. It settled down and ran fine thru the time I sold it this past January.

Lesson learned - read before you experiment....

 

Yikes!
Definitely do not have the time to experiment with different ATF fluid at this time with the new baby just born I just want to ensure that the car is running smoothly and hopefully does not develop any transmission issues. I can live with this minor drivetrain whine, and hopefully who knows maybe Toyota will release a fix for it given the many online posts I found with people with other types of models having the same drivetrain noise!? Perhaps it is wishful thinking but maybe something that they have addressed in the third-generation Sienna.

 

Just called the Toyota Customer Care line; they took down my information and my disgust at my local dealer to tell me the whine is normal noise and putting me thru hoops thinking it was tire noise in the first place. They said they will forward to the dealership and have their customer relations manager contact me in the next 2 days; previous owner supposedly had an extended warranty on this vehicle (thru 100K miles) but it expired February of this year (around the same time I bought the car from the Hyundai dealer) - I guess that warranty is not transferable?
At the minimum I'd be pleased if my local dealer would offer me an extended power train warranty at no charge.

 

4 days later and not a beep from my local Toyota customer relations manager.
Come Monday will be calling Toyota again.

 

Anybody know if this TSB applies to the 3.5 V6 in the 2nd generation Sienna?

http://rav4world.com/tsb/2010/T-SB-0192-10.pdf

 

Michelin is a good brand for tires, you shouldn't be disappointed. Aside from the transmission and engine, I see tires as the most important component of a vehicle.

 

Good find, as they share engine & transaxle. Interpretation is that the whine might be there on all, but you only hear it if it's transmitted to the cradle and resonates into the body structure. And maybe a little finishing change to the gear cut.

But as I understand it, the cradle and supports on the Sienna have more in common with the front end of the larger Highlander than the Rav4. But who knows.... Something to talk to a tech rep at Toyota about.

 

So I just called the Toyota customer care line and they told me that the dealership is advising that I go check with Dublin Hyundai from where I bought the car from! this is very lame if you ask me! she told me to get a second opinion to see whether that noise is normal or not and can also go to the dealership and ask to test drive another 2009 Sienna to see if it makes the same noise. So what if Dublin Hyundai technicians tell me it is not normal who is going to pick up the bill? I mentioned that TSB that I mentioned above in this post and she said it is good to get a second opinion on that as well from any service shop..

What a hassle for the consumer!

 

I took the van to a local reputable father and son shop this morning... The mechanic initially did not hear the whine noise but did when I test drove it with him. He told me that noise is even present under hard acceleration and is normal for these vans. He also said that they have never seen any issues with these 5 speed AT transmissions and would not recommend doing anything at this time. The TSB I referenced above is for a different 5AT Toyota transmission not used in the Sienna.

The only thing he recommended is dropping the AT pan and cleaning out the metal filter, in case it is clogged and causing this whine.

At 61K miles, do you think the filter would be clogged? Remember I started hearing this whine noise after the 3rd drain and fill of WS fluid... it is a bit suspicious from that perspective that something may have dislodged and got the filter clogged.

Any special tools to remove the bolts above the cross member or will a regular wrench suffice?
Should I replace the pan gasket or just clean and reuse the existing one if in good condition?