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Discussion Starter #42
JD power initially quality is largely a meaningless award, possibly paid for (unclear), and basically a meme at this point among enthusiasts.

Long term proven reliability is way more predictive, and everyone from CR reliability surveys, to Scotty Kilmer to John Cardogen, knows that FCA makes a very poor quality product, on average. There is always some variability - recently the grand Cherokee has brought Jeep average score up a bit.

One simple roughy way to know is - what is the residual value at 4-5 years?

And to be fair, Honda typically makes a great product but the Odyssey has had its own issues recently.
 

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Discussion Starter #44

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I said mile range 10-12k a year, for reference. I just drove it and was highly unimpressed by it. May actually go with a new 2020 Sienna.

When you break even comes down to how much you drive - the more, the earlier. If the people reporting 40+mpg are truthful, going to that from the 22mpg 2020 sienna for us (who drive probably 18-20K miles per year) is like $1500-2000 savings in gas per years (we are in Canada where gas is more).
 

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I posted this in the Odyclub forum as well, but I figured I'd post it here as well since it's applicable:

Well, the wife and family (5 kids) went for a couple test drives today...and here are the results. I really want to make a decision by tomorrow if we decide to go with the Odyssey, as they have some good pricing on the 2020s that are left (and disappearing by the day!). I'm just not sure I'm ready to commit...

Sienna XLE
47811

  • Pro: Really liked the styling - interior and exterior. My wife likes to be unique, and the Sienna color options are much more distinctive than the drab color palette of the Odyssey exteriors. The bridge console setup is nicely designed.
  • Major con: Being 6'6", I'm really disappointed at the loss in front passenger height due to the battery that sits under the front seats. Probably not a factor for the LE trim, since it doesn't have a sunroof like the XLE we test drove.
  • Con: As others have noted, when trying to rapidly accelerate, the horsepower is lacking. I literally had the gas pedal floored and was surprised at how little the engine responded. This really would only come into play when passing.
  • Pro: I much prefer the manual shifter to the Odyssey's button shifters
  • Con:? I'm still trying to confirm this, but I can't recall if the new Sienna includes remote start like the Odyssey does standard
  • Pro: Reliability and resale value
  • Con: Had hoped to see the 8-passenger variant in person; from what I can tell, the seat design remains the same as the previous generation, which seemed less substantial and left the base in the floor when removed
  • Pro: I like the blind spot monitoring on the mirrors vs the inside of the car
  • Con: Third row's hardware for seat folding encroaches into cargo space
  • Pro: Visibility seemed better/more open for front passenger/driver
  • Pro: Buttons on outside door handles allow easy access for kids
  • Con: The hands-free door/lift gate was very inconsistent in sensing my foot to open them (and apparently doesn't work when there's significant radio interference)
Odyssey EX-L
  • Pro: Acceleration was noticeably peppier at higher speeds
  • Pro: Good road feel
  • Pro: Remote start
  • Pro: Top safety scores
  • Con: Potential need to buy extended warranty
  • Con: Button shifters
  • Con: HVAC vent placement
  • Pro: I didn't realize it has a "snow" driving mode - wondering if others have found it effective?
  • Con: BSM is on inside of the car
  • Con:? Does the Odyssey have start/stop technology? I could have sworn I sensed the engine shut off and turn back on when I came to a complete stop and hit the accelerator again. Not sure how I feel about that, since I've heard others express concern about the impact to emergency maneuvering
  • Pro: We like the magic slide seats that allow the two captains chairs to slide together (our current setup in our gen 3 Sienna)
  • Pro: The third row folding action is better and the cargo space isn't take up by the hardware that allows for that movement
  • Con: Wife's not a fan of the colors left of the remaining 2020's within driving distance (pewter, blue and silver)
Gonna sleep on it and see if we have an epiphany tomorrow :)
 

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I am not sure if you are asking for opinions or thoughts but because you posted it here I have to assume you do want comments.
To answer one of your concerns, yes the Sienna has Remote Start.
I am very surprised of the comparison stating that Honda is a little more peppy. I tested the Odyssey and this was one of the biggest reasons I couldn’t swallow buying it, in addition to a history of transmission problems. I felt is was such a slow vehicle and it felt soo boring to drive. Not that a Sienna is super fun but in comparison, the Sienna is a super sport.

As I mentioned in another chat, I don’t think these two compare. You may want to check out a 2020 Sienna before making the decision. I rather buy a 2020 Sienna than a 2020 or 2021 Odyssey

I posted this in the Odyclub forum as well, but I figured I'd post it here as well since it's applicable:

Well, the wife and family (5 kids) went for a couple test drives today...and here are the results. I really want to make a decision by tomorrow if we decide to go with the Odyssey, as they have some good pricing on the 2020s that are left (and disappearing by the day!). I'm just not sure I'm ready to commit...

Sienna XLE
View attachment 47811

  • Pro: Really liked the styling - interior and exterior. My wife likes to be unique, and the Sienna color options are much more distinctive than the drab color palette of the Odyssey exteriors. The bridge console setup is nicely designed.
  • Major con: Being 6'6", I'm really disappointed at the loss in front passenger height due to the battery that sits under the front seats. Probably not a factor for the LE trim, since it doesn't have a sunroof like the XLE we test drove.
  • Con: As others have noted, when trying to rapidly accelerate, the horsepower is lacking. I literally had the gas pedal floored and was surprised at how little the engine responded. This really would only come into play when passing.
  • Pro: I much prefer the manual shifter to the Odyssey's button shifters
  • Con:? I'm still trying to confirm this, but I can't recall if the new Sienna includes remote start like the Odyssey does standard
  • Pro: Reliability and resale value
  • Con: Had hoped to see the 8-passenger variant in person; from what I can tell, the seat design remains the same as the previous generation, which seemed less substantial and left the base in the floor when removed
  • Pro: I like the blind spot monitoring on the mirrors vs the inside of the car
  • Con: Third row's hardware for seat folding encroaches into cargo space
  • Pro: Visibility seemed better/more open for front passenger/driver
  • Pro: Buttons on outside door handles allow easy access for kids
  • Con: The hands-free door/lift gate was very inconsistent in sensing my foot to open them (and apparently doesn't work when there's significant radio interference)
Odyssey EX-L
  • Pro: Acceleration was noticeably peppier at higher speeds
  • Pro: Good road feel
  • Pro: Remote start
  • Pro: Top safety scores
  • Con: Potential need to buy extended warranty
  • Con: Button shifters
  • Con: HVAC vent placement
  • Pro: I didn't realize it has a "snow" driving mode - wondering if others have found it effective?
  • Con: BSM is on inside of the car
  • Con:? Does the Odyssey have start/stop technology? I could have sworn I sensed the engine shut off and turn back on when I came to a complete stop and hit the accelerator again. Not sure how I feel about that, since I've heard others express concern about the impact to emergency maneuvering
  • Pro: We like the magic slide seats that allow the two captains chairs to slide together (our current setup in our gen 3 Sienna)
  • Pro: The third row folding action is better and the cargo space isn't take up by the hardware that allows for that movement
  • Con: Wife's not a fan of the colors left of the remaining 2020's within driving distance (pewter, blue and silver)
Gonna sleep on it and see if we have an epiphany tomorrow :)
 

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Discussion Starter #48
I posted this in the Odyclub forum as well, but I figured I'd post it here as well since it's applicable:

Well, the wife and family (5 kids) went for a couple test drives today...and here are the results. I really want to make a decision by tomorrow if we decide to go with the Odyssey, as they have some good pricing on the 2020s that are left (and disappearing by the day!). I'm just not sure I'm ready to commit...

Sienna XLE
View attachment 47811

  • Pro: Really liked the styling - interior and exterior. My wife likes to be unique, and the Sienna color options are much more distinctive than the drab color palette of the Odyssey exteriors. The bridge console setup is nicely designed.
  • Major con: Being 6'6", I'm really disappointed at the loss in front passenger height due to the battery that sits under the front seats. Probably not a factor for the LE trim, since it doesn't have a sunroof like the XLE we test drove.
  • Con: As others have noted, when trying to rapidly accelerate, the horsepower is lacking. I literally had the gas pedal floored and was surprised at how little the engine responded. This really would only come into play when passing.
  • Pro: I much prefer the manual shifter to the Odyssey's button shifters
  • Con:? I'm still trying to confirm this, but I can't recall if the new Sienna includes remote start like the Odyssey does standard
  • Pro: Reliability and resale value
  • Con: Had hoped to see the 8-passenger variant in person; from what I can tell, the seat design remains the same as the previous generation, which seemed less substantial and left the base in the floor when removed
  • Pro: I like the blind spot monitoring on the mirrors vs the inside of the car
  • Con: Third row's hardware for seat folding encroaches into cargo space
  • Pro: Visibility seemed better/more open for front passenger/driver
  • Pro: Buttons on outside door handles allow easy access for kids
  • Con: The hands-free door/lift gate was very inconsistent in sensing my foot to open them (and apparently doesn't work when there's significant radio interference)
Odyssey EX-L
  • Pro: Acceleration was noticeably peppier at higher speeds
  • Pro: Good road feel
  • Pro: Remote start
  • Pro: Top safety scores
  • Con: Potential need to buy extended warranty
  • Con: Button shifters
  • Con: HVAC vent placement
  • Pro: I didn't realize it has a "snow" driving mode - wondering if others have found it effective?
  • Con: BSM is on inside of the car
  • Con:? Does the Odyssey have start/stop technology? I could have sworn I sensed the engine shut off and turn back on when I came to a complete stop and hit the accelerator again. Not sure how I feel about that, since I've heard others express concern about the impact to emergency maneuvering
  • Pro: We like the magic slide seats that allow the two captains chairs to slide together (our current setup in our gen 3 Sienna)
  • Pro: The third row folding action is better and the cargo space isn't take up by the hardware that allows for that movement
  • Con: Wife's not a fan of the colors left of the remaining 2020's within driving distance (pewter, blue and silver)
Gonna sleep on it and see if we have an epiphany tomorrow :)
Excellent review, great observations very helpful. I didn't realize the Toyota has no command start, wtf? That's a big one for me. One other advantage of the Honda, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you get memory seats in the EX-L, but I'm not sure if you get them in anything less than the Platinum for Sienna? Do you know? I can't tell from the website.

Seems like everything is going to start/stop now. If you hardly noticed it, to me that suggests it's non-obtrusive at least.
 

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Excellent review, great observations very helpful. I didn't realize the Toyota has no command start, wtf? That's a big one for me. One other advantage of the Honda, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you get memory seats in the EX-L, but I'm not sure if you get them in anything less than the Platinum for Sienna? Do you know? I can't tell from the website.

Seems like everything is going to start/stop now. If you hardly noticed it, to me that suggests it's non-obtrusive at least.
for the Sienna, memory seats start at the Limited trim.

47814
 

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Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the availability of remote start for the Sienna, but I believe it also is standard with the XLE trims and above.

According to this press release, for memory functions on the Sienna you have to step up to Limited/Platinum:
Leather-trimmed heated and ventilated front seats with seatback pockets; 8-way power-adjustable driver's seat with driver memory function; 4-way power-adjustable front passenger seat and power tilt and telescoping steering columnStandard for Limited and Platinum

On the Odyssey, memory seats are available on the EX-L and above.
 

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Discussion Starter #51
I am not sure if you are asking for opinions or thoughts but because you posted it here I have to assume you do want comments.
To answer one of your concerns, yes the Sienna has Remote Start.
I am very surprised of the comparison stating that Honda is a little more peppy. I tested the Odyssey and this was one of the biggest reasons I couldn’t swallow buying it, in addition to a history of transmission problems. I felt is was such a slow vehicle and it felt soo boring to drive. Not that a Sienna is super fun but in comparison, the Sienna is a super sport.

As I mentioned in another chat, I don’t think these two compare. You may want to check out a 2020 Sienna before making the decision. I rather buy a 2020 Sienna than a 2020 or 2021 Odyssey
Ya I'm still torn. The AWD and mileage advantages are huge, but so are the ability to remove the second row seating, and the repeatedly better driving. The more I see the 2022 sienna (available now as 2021 Carnival overseas) the more I like it on aesthetics.
 

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Discussion Starter #52
Unfortunately I didn't pay attention to the availability of remote start for the Sienna, but I believe it also is standard with the XLE trims and above.

According to this press release, for memory functions on the Sienna you have to step up to Limited/Platinum:
Leather-trimmed heated and ventilated front seats with seatback pockets; 8-way power-adjustable driver's seat with driver memory function; 4-way power-adjustable front passenger seat and power tilt and telescoping steering columnStandard for Limited and Platinum

On the Odyssey, memory seats are available on the EX-L and above.
Thanks. I contacted my dealer (Canada) today and he said the phone app remote start is free for first year, then $10/mo.
 

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Ya I'm still torn. The AWD and mileage advantages are huge, but so are the ability to remove the second row seating, and the repeatedly better driving. The more I see the 2022 sienna (available now as 2021 Carnival overseas) the more I like it on aesthetics.
I am assuming you are talking about the 2022 Sedona (not Sienna). I have considered waiting for it because it does look way nice and it practically is what I have always wanted, an SUV with Sliding doors. Best of both worlds. But I have yet to trust the brand and that’s where I am weak.

I will admit I had tested a FWD. I went back for the AWD and it was considerably better. It is still a little bit disappointing in the uphills but I may just have to let that go, because it is still the best option in the market. 2020’s although the 2nd best option are too hard to come by.
 

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Discussion Starter #54
I am assuming you are talking about the 2022 Sedona (not Sienna). I have considered waiting for it because it does look way nice and it practically is what I have always wanted, an SUV with Sliding doors. Best of both worlds. But I have yet to trust the brand and that’s where I am weak.

I will admit I had tested a FWD. I went back for the AWD and it was considerably better. It is still a little bit disappointing in the uphills but I may just have to let that go, because it is still the best option in the market. 2020’s although the 2nd best option are too hard to come by.
Right I meant Sedona. Why the brand though? They are massively better than 20 years ago, top CR ratings in most categories now. Small car, luxury car and SUV they are #1 currently.

People don’t remember that Honda and Toyota were known as ‘jap crap’ in the 70’s. Things change.
 

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JD power is a market researchcompany that businesses or car manufacturers pay for market data or customer survey information about their products. It’s a completely worthless award because if a company doesn’t participate or pays less or has less data analyzed because they don’t care to play JD powers pay-for-award game then they rank lower.
 

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Discussion Starter #56
JD power is a market researchcompany that businesses or car manufacturers pay for market data or customer survey information about their products. It’s a completely worthless award because if a company doesn’t participate or pays less or has less data analyzed because they don’t care to play JD powers pay-for-award game then they rank lower.
I don’t think anybody who’s informed takes them seriously. Mostly just mocked.
 

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JD power is a market researchcompany that businesses or car manufacturers pay for market data or customer survey information about their products. It’s a completely worthless award because if a company doesn’t participate or pays less or has less data analyzed because they don’t care to play JD powers pay-for-award game then they rank lower.
To clarify, my post was in response to texas911’s previous related posts.
 

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My test drive of the Sienna was mostly positive. It is a bit underpowered but adequate for the service. Handling was well. Cabin noise was excellent. My biggest complaint and probably a show-stopper was the non-responsive, spongy brakes. I cannot believe Toyota missed this. Both me and my wife noticed how poor and uneven the breaks felt. I will likely wait and test drive the Odyssey and the 2022 Sedona. Just too many issues to overlook on the 2021 Sienna. What a shame.
 

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Discussion Starter #59
My test drive of the Sienna was mostly positive. It is a bit underpowered but adequate for the service. Handling was well. Cabin noise was excellent. My biggest complaint and probably a show-stopper was the non-responsive, spongy brakes. I cannot believe Toyota missed this. Both me and my wife noticed how poor and uneven the breaks felt. I will likely wait and test drive the Odyssey and the 2022 Sedona. Just too many issues to overlook on the 2021 Sienna. What a shame.
I believe it has regen braking, and you're probably not used to it. This is a way to move energy from your momentum back into the battery. Try driving a Tesla, same deal. I hated the feel in my friend's Model 3 I tested, and he said he did as well but got used to it.
 

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I believe it has regen braking, and you're probably not used to it. This is a way to move energy from your momentum back into the battery. Try driving a Tesla, same deal. I hated the feel in my friend's Model 3 I tested, and he said he did as well but got used to it.
I'm familiar with regen braking although this was the first time I tried them. I wonder how the brakes in the Sienna compares to other hybrids. I may go test drive a Tesla or another hybrid just for comparison.
 
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