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With no Siennas with any of the requirements we want available, and the factory stop with no date for restart nor 2022 ordering possible, I’ve started looking at Carnivals.

For anyone else wondering, the order delivery time I was given today but a dealer is 3-4 months. Not good, but better than the current ??? situation with Toyota.

Unfortunately, it turns out Kia doesn’t sell a Carnival with roof rails and and 8-seats; rails simply aren’t available on lower trims, and the much like Siena’s higher trims Carnival’s higher trims only come in 7-seat configurations. So it’s back to waiting on Toyota to open back up, and then waiting on a 2022 order, most likely.
 

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With no Siennas with any of the requirements we want available, and the factory stop with no date for restart nor 2022 ordering possible, I’ve started looking at Carnivals.

For anyone else wondering, the order delivery time I was given today but a dealer is 3-4 months. Not good, but better than the current ??? situation with Toyota.

Unfortunately, it turns out Kia doesn’t sell a Carnival with roof rails and and 8-seats; rails simply aren’t available on the EX or lower and it doesn’t look like any aftermarket add ons exist, and the much like Siena’s higher trims Carnival’s SX trim only comes in 7-seat configurations. So it’s back to waiting on Toyota to open back up, and then waiting on a 2022 order, most likely.
I submitted a ticket on Kia's website basically telling them how ridiculous it is that you can't get an 8 seat version of the Carnival SX Prestige trim. I suggested they create a technology package for the SX trim which has all the extra features of the SX Prestige except the lounge seats. I actually got a call back from someone at Kia in Georgia about my ticket and they said it would passed onto the right group in the company.

The only thing that gives me hope that the trims might change is that Canada has a trim called the EX+ which is slotted between the EX and the SX trims. Canada's SX is basically the US SX Prestige.

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I submitted a ticket on Kia's website basically telling them how ridiculous it is that you can't get an 8 seat version of the Carnival SX Prestige trim. I suggested they create a technology package for the SX trim which has all the extra features of the SX Prestige except the lounge seats. I actually got a call back from someone at Kia in Georgia about my ticket and they said it would passed onto the right group in the company.

The only thing that gives me hope that the trims might change is that Canada has a trim called the EX+ which is slotted between the EX and the SX trims. Canada's SX is basically the US SX Prestige.

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Impressive response from them. The 7-seat thing all of the van makers are doing mystifies me. I mean I guess I can see having a minor number of vans with that option. But how many people are buying these to essentially be limousines?

It’s not like the the middle seat can’t be removed. Are the “bucket seats” in the second row of 7-seat configurations that much wider than the 8-seat configurations? The second row of the 7-seat vans isn’t a bench like olden times.

At least Toyota has a weight rationale for not offering AWD with 8 seats, sorta. (I do think that rationale is a bit dubious though — how much can the middle seat weigh?)
 

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Impressive response from them. The 7-seat thing all of the van makers are doing mystifies me. I mean I guess I can see having a minor number of vans with that option. But how many people are buying these to essentially be limousines?

It’s not like the the middle seat can’t be removed. Are the “bucket seats” in the second row of 7-seat configurations that much wider than the 8-seat configurations? The second row of the 7-seat vans isn’t a bench like olden times.

At least Toyota has a weight rationale for not offering AWD with 8 seats, sorta. (I do think that rationale is a bit dubious though — how much can the middle seat weigh?)
Toyota is meticulous about having the same weight across their range. So much so, that the Rav4 Hybrid base trim LE, comes with nickel-metal hydride battery, while the higher trims(which weigh more) get the lighter lithium ion so they all can weigh the same.
 

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Discussion Starter · #105 ·
I submitted a ticket on Kia's website basically telling them how ridiculous it is that you can't get an 8 seat version of the Carnival SX Prestige trim. I suggested they create a technology package for the SX trim which has all the extra features of the SX Prestige except the lounge seats. I actually got a call back from someone at Kia in Georgia about my ticket and they said it would passed onto the right group in the company.

The only thing that gives me hope that the trims might change is that Canada has a trim called the EX+ which is slotted between the EX and the SX trims. Canada's SX is basically the US SX Prestige.

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Amen to this. I am waiting for Kia to come up the top SXP trim 8 seater in hybrid form with bated breath.
 
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My biggest beef with Carnival right now is that the SX prestige is so hard to find.

No dealer in US is selling for MSRP- everyone want at least $8k above.

Having my 2021 sienna XLE for about 6 months and 9k later- Carnival is much better overall.

Space, technology, and interior material is just so much better.

We sold the Sienna last month (need surround view) and will pick up a new Platinum this weekend. The only reason sienna won again is because I refuse to pay over MSRP (got one from Reno at $500 off MSRP)
 

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My biggest beef with Carnival right now is that the SX prestige is so hard to find.

No dealer in US is selling for MSRP- everyone want at least $8k above.

Having my 2021 sienna XLE for about 6 months and 9k later- Carnival is much better overall.

Space, technology, and interior material is just so much better.

We sold the Sienna last month (need surround view) and will pick up a new Platinum this weekend. The only reason sienna won again is because I refuse to pay over MSRP (got one from Reno at $500 off MSRP)
There’s a Kia Dealer in Colorado Springs that is participating in the Costco program as of a couple weeks ago. Their price is a tiny bit under MSRP, and the people I’ve talked to there have been totally reasonable and helpful. Although like everywhere else, tje estimate they have for SXs is 3+ months for delivery.
 

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We sold the Sienna last month (need surround view) and will pick up a new Platinum this weekend. The only reason sienna won again is because I refuse to pay over MSRP (got one from Reno at $500 off MSRP)
Did you get the black or red one from Dolan Reno Toyota? I was eyeing them on Cars.com and debating if I should make the trek out there.


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Did you get the black or red one from Dolan Reno Toyota? I was eyeing them on Cars.com and debating if I should make the trek out there.


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I ended up taking the red AWD as we need AWD.

The cypress platinum FWD is available since we just made the switch today.

Also- every single car they have has a $1299 adder for tint/door edge guard and GPS tracker- negotiated down to $999
 

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I actually started looking at a Carnival, but no dealers anywhere had one of those so we then started looking at Siennas.

But ha - supply issues there too. So we'll just wait I guess. Never thought I'd have to wait in my life to buy a minivan! :D
Not the first time... back in late 2002, in Northern NJ/NY city area, had to wait months to get a new 2003 Honda Odyssey, they were going for MSRP as well. Big sellers than. I believe the same with the than all new Honda Pilot as well.
 

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Far better gas mileage too. 36 vs 21. Kia is stuck in the old days with it's crappy gas mileage rating. esp now with $3+ gas. My new 2003 Odyssey got almost same gas mileage as the Kia. That was 18 years ago.
Yes, I agree Kia misjudged with their engine choice. They are reportedly bringing a hybrid option in 2023. They ended production of the Kia Stinger and have repurposed that factory to produce hybrid and (also reportedly) AWD Carnivals & Grand Carnivals. Minivan wars are ramping up a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #113 ·
Kia Carnival named Semifinalist for North American Utility Vehicle of the Year


Not bad considering it lacks AWD option and lags in fuel economy.
 
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I bought a 1992 Eagle Vision by Chrysler which was named "Car of the Year" in 1993. Everything that could go wrong with it did go wrong. Example: Driving down a dark country road at night and dimmed the headlights for an oncoming car and the lights went out. Fortunately, I bought the 7/70 warranty and traded it before the warranty expired. Needless to say, the designation "Car of the Year" does not impress me at all.
 

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NACTOY is only for new model years that are “interesting” or “innovative” from a preselected list of nominees. The Sienna would have been eligible last year, but it looks like Toyota had both the revived Venza and RAV4 Prime eligible last year instead.

The new electric Ford Mustang Mach-E (Ford escape in disguise) won utility vehicle of the year last year. The 2022 Tundra, which wasn’t even available for the press to drive when the list was released, is a nominee for truck of the year. TIFWIW.

The Carnival is certainly interesting, has some high end tech, and it has been very well marketed.
 

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A lot has changed in 30 years? Maybe?
Maybe, maybe not. Hyundai Tucson and Sonata Hybrid recall to result in new engines for owners of 2017, a big recall. Hyundai and kia are tied together at the corporate level. At this point, for me, i do not think I could consider a hyuandai/kia with as many engine issues they have had. Your mileage may vary. I used to be a big fan, not so much after my elantra and have gone back to Toyota.
 

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2020 Global Sales
Toyota / Lexus = 8.69 million cars
Hyundai / Kia = 6.35 million cars

2020 First Six Months Recalls (vehicles affected)
Toyota = 3.9 million cars
Kia = 244,000 cars
Hyundai = 207,000 cars
Lexus = N/A; did not crack top 10 in recalls

This does not tell the whole story as there are many more Toyotas on the road and the recalls typically affect several model years. I'm just trying to point out that Toyotas are not that much ahead of Hyundais and Kias anymore.


Sources:
 

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Thanks for posting this and mentioning that there are more Toyotas on the road than Hyundai/Kia which affects the statistics. I do feel that people unfairly look down on Kia when they've clearly improved their quality and I think Toyotas have slipped a bit. When I do a side by side comparison between Kia and Toyota models, I see better value from the Kias especially when you factor in the length of the powertrain warranty but Toyotas still have better resale value.

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Thanks for posting this and mentioning that there are more Toyotas on the road than Hyundai/Kia which affects the statistics. I do feel that people unfairly look down on Kia when they've clearly improved their quality and I think Toyotas have slipped a bit. When I do a side by side comparison between Kia and Toyota models, I see better value from the Kias especially when you factor in the length of the powertrain warranty but Toyotas still have better resale value.

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Personally I don't think Toyota quality has slipped, they are just cost cutting and de-contenting. Compared to the previous top trim Sienna, the Platinum has no power rear seats, rear moon roof, sunglass holder, second glove box, coin holder, adjustable headlight level, DVD player, plastic hubcaps, etc. So you get less for the same price as other minivans. So its up to you to pick which you can live with.
 
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