[jimstomboney]

My 2022 Sienna is getting only 27 mpg after the first 1,000 miles. I paid a premium for my license registration in Ohio because I was driving a hybrid And thought I would be getting much higher mpg as advertised. Any suggestion?

 

[JohnHartshorn]

What mode are you in (Eco/Normal/Sport?) Should be in Eco.
Are you doing warm-ups for heat?
How heavy of a foot do you have? (No jackrabbit starts, no waiting to the last second to slam on the brakes at stops)
Are your tires properly inflated? (36psi is where they should be)
Are you using gas with a high Ethanol %? (Don't)

 

[jimstomboney]

Always in ECO mode and I have a very light foot. Try to keep it out of the power mode when possible. Using 87 octane gas from Costco.

 

[20swrt]

Welcome to the club ! Im also from CentralOhio. I get my gas from Sheetz - 88 octane / 15% ethanol. I get around 33/34 in the city and around 31/32 on the freeway. I only have 3k miles so like you im still gathering data. Try to use apps like Fuelly to track your actual milage at the pump.

 

[Bmac13]

Make sure you are not sitting letting the engine idling. The mileage should improve as the weather warms up.

I am curious as to why Ohio charges a premium for a hybrid. Most states are encouraging energy efficiency rather than penalizing it.

 

[Siennabigfan]

I have a 2021 awd and get about 29 on average.

I drive it normally and in normal mode, not eco mode because it feels sluggish with it on. I also turned off the "eco climate control" or whatever its called because the AC is pretty lacking with it on in the summer. I use remote start when its cold and basically I treat it like any other vehicle, after 15k miles usually get 29mpg. I have wondered if the people getting high 30s are driving super carefully, only eco mode, 2wd, etc.

 

[jimstomboney]

Make sure you are not sitting letting the engine idling. The mileage should improve as the weather warms up.

I am curious as to why Ohio charges a premium for a hybrid. Most states are encouraging energy efficiency rather than penalizing it.

The Ohio legislature thought it was a good idea to charge a premium of $100 per year for a hybrid and $300 per year for an EV because we weren’t paying enough road tax. I wrote a letter to the State of Ohio asking where were the incentives for going green in Ohio but they did not want to hear it.

 

[jimstomboney]

I have a 2021 awd and get about 29 on average.

I drive it normally and in normal mode, not eco mode because it feels sluggish with it on. I also turned off the "eco climate control" or whatever its called because the AC is pretty lacking with it on in the summer. I use remote start when its cold and basically I treat it like any other vehicle, after 15k miles usually get 29mpg. I have wondered if the people getting high 30s are driving super carefully, only eco mode, 2wd, etc.

 

[jimstomboney]

I can see 29mpg with awd and driving in the normal mode but my Sienna is fwd and I drive it in Eco mode only. You are right about being it being sluggish in Eco and that contributes to my disappointment with the mpg.

 

[Sienna9816]

Borrowing from other threads on similar subject, here are some known MPG busters.
1. Winter fuel mix - 10-15% drop than summer fuel mix.
2. Sitting Idle while warming up. Significant impact if done often and longer.
3. Shorter trips, especially during winter - Heat comes from engine only.
4. You're probably still in engine breaking period at 1K miles so far.
5. Going higher than 65 MPH or so.
6. Wind resistance.

FWIW, I get about 30-31 in Summer in Normal mode. During winter, I get 25-29 depending on how long I worm up. During summer, when my friend drives it for more than a few miles, his trip MPGs are around 36-40. I get 30-31 on similar trips.

Btw, MID Fuel section (Leaf) shows each trip rating/score by Start, Cornering and Braking. See if you anything obvious in there. You can also set MPGs view by Trip, Tank or Life. Also, if you disable child warning, MID will show Trip MPGs after car is turned off, but it disappears as soon as any doors are opened.

Also, if you have App, App shows some historical scores on last few trips ( a day or so delayed).

 

[Vanfam12345]

Any suggestion?

Test again when winter is over and heater is shutoff.

 

[Alabama XL40]

The Ohio legislature thought it was a good idea to charge a premium of $100 per year for a hybrid and $300 per year for an EV because we weren’t paying enough road tax. I wrote a letter to the State of Ohio asking where were the incentives for going green in Ohio but they did not want to hear it.

I’m sure this will surprise absolutely no one, but Alabama has a similar policy. The response I got from my state senator was that I didn’t pay as much gas tax as a regular gas vehicle so the state has to make it up somewhere. 😒

Mercedes, Toyota, Mazda, Honda, and Hyundai all have plants in Alabama that are currently building or plan to build hybrid and/or full EVs. Perhaps when the politicians begin driving hybrid and EVs those taxes will go away!

 

[catfish93]

My 2022 Sienna is getting only 27 mpg after the first 1,000 miles. I paid a premium for my license registration in Ohio because I was driving a hybrid And thought I would be getting much higher mpg as advertised. Any suggestion?

Ohio huh? It's as cold as my ex's heart up there, and conveniently she now lives there... a place as cold as she is! All jokes aside, cold weather will absolutely kill your MPG in this van and all hybrids. The heat works the same way as it does in all normal vehicles - it's taken from the coolant temp. The colder it is outside, the harder you will work the heater. The harder the heater needs to work, the faster the coolant temp drops. The temp sensor tells the computer to turn on the engine if the coolant temp drops below a certain threshold, so the engine will be running a lot more in very cold weather, even when stopped. This kills your MPG. Bundle up and leave the heat off for a trip to or from work and see what that does.

Another thing that kills your MPG is highway driving at high speed. The speed threshold seems to be about 65-70 when fuel economy starts to take a dive. 80+ and the engine won't even turn off when coasting downhill.

I'm an Uber driver and I manage 40+ when not using heat or AC. That is mostly city as well, where hybrids really shine. I think my worst average so far is in the neighborhood of 28 or 29 MPG. For a vehicle as big and heavy as this is, anything out of the teens is pretty impressive. My Gen2 eeked out 20.... once. Mostly 16-18.

 

[Sienna9816]

Ohio huh? It's as cold as my ex's heart up there, and conveniently she now lives there... a place as cold as she is! All jokes aside, cold weather will absolutely kill your MPG in this van and all hybrids. The heat works the same way as it does in all normal vehicles - it's taken from the coolant temp. The colder it is outside, the harder you will work the heater. The harder the heater needs to work, the faster the coolant temp drops. The temp sensor tells the computer to turn on the engine if the coolant temp drops below a certain threshold, so the engine will be running a lot more in very cold weather, even when stopped. This kills your MPG. Bundle up and leave the heat off for a trip to or from work and see what that does.

Another thing that kills your MPG is highway driving at high speed. The speed threshold seems to be about 65-70 when fuel economy starts to take a dive. 80+ and the engine won't even turn off when coasting downhill.

I'm an Uber driver and I manage 40+ when not using heat or AC. That is mostly city as well, where hybrids really shine. I think my worst average so far is in the neighborhood of 28 or 29 MPG. For a vehicle as big and heavy as this is, anything out of the teens is pretty impressive. My Gen2 eeked out 20.... once. Mostly 16-18.

Very good info and helpful perspective. Thanks for sharing.

Just curious, do you have 1500W outlet? If so, have you experimented or thought about a Space Heater?

My wife was not happy with a 10Minute warmup so I stuck a space heater in our car that had sat unused for 10 years otherwise. I seem to think it is making noticeable difference in MPG (+1 to +3), but temperatures in our area have been all over. With the amount of miles you put in, you may be able to make a better observation.

This leads to my another musing that why won't Toyota put electric heaters in here? There has to be a significant reason other than cost. Even an extra 1 or 2MPG increase would be dramatic enough for them boast about. Or may be they are saving this trick for the next time time they have to up their MPGs to meet new EPA minimums?

 

[catfish93]

Very good info and helpful perspective. Thanks for sharing.

Just curious, do you have 1500W outlet? If so, have you experimented or thought about a Space Heater?

My wife was not happy with a 10Minute warmup so I stuck a space heater in our car that had sat unused for 10 years otherwise. I seem to think it is making noticeable difference in MPG (+1 to +3), but temperatures in our area have been all over. With the amount of miles you put in, you may be able to make a better observation.

This leads to my another musing that why won't Toyota put electric heaters in here? There has to be a significant reason other than cost. Even an extra 1 or 2MPG increase would be dramatic enough for them boast about. Or may be they are saving this trick for the next time time they have to up their MPGs to meet new EPA minimums?

I do not have the 1500W outlet and honestly I probably would never use it even if I did. There's enough USB chargers on board that everyone who needs a cable has one. I have no idea what the USB C ports are for. Love the idea about a space heater; that sir is thinking outside the box! Happy wife, happy life.

Observations about temperatures and correlation to fuel economy:
The gas engine noticeably runs a whole lot more when it's under 40°. When the temperatures are cold, I leave the heat off until the temperature is in the middle of the gauge. The heat blows much hotter and the engine temp stays higher as well. Don't set it at like 85°. Keep it at a much more modest temperature and engine coolant temperature won't bleed off quite as fast, forcing the engine on (and hurting MPG) It seems to do quite well at 72°. Another thing I do is when I'm going to be in town for a while, I simply turn the heat off altogether. This will make it as efficient as possible. When I know I'm about to get on the interstate or that the engine will be on for a while because of an upcoming hill or something, I turn it back on again.

+1 to the query about electric heat. I have mentioned this in other threads as well. EVs do have an electric heater that warms the cabin very quickly as soon as you get in. A minivan is a family vehicle. What parent would not want their kids to be as warm as possible as quickly as possible? Major oversight on the part of Toyota.

I'm quite confident that it's all cost. Everywhere you look in the sienna, it reeks of cost cutting. From the jiggly gear shift unlock button, to the floating console that flexes when you press down on it, to the massive panel gap in the third row cup holder area on the right side. Unrefined and loud engine. Seat bottom that is uncomfortable and hard as a rock. The list goes on. And on. They would not need to save that trick to meet new EPA minimum standards. They could be proactive and meet future standards now, but they probably save $5 per unit making it like it is, so they leave the customer who just spent $44,000 (in my case) on a vehicle with sucky heat when you need it the most. Toyota did not use to build vehicles this way. It is a real shame.

 

[fotomoto]

Hello Everyone. First post here but I'm long term, multiple hybrid owner.

The OP is losing about 25% fuel economy in winter conditions. This is physics/chemistry in action and it's normal for every type of driving technology including BEV's (battery electric vehicles). MPG's will rise accordingly with temperatures and it's the yearly overall fuel economy that matters to the pocket book.

For example, losing 25% for the year on a 21mpg vehicle (non-hybrid sienna):

Non-hybrid 2020 sienna
100,000/21mpg=4,761 gallons
100,000/15.75mpg=6,349 gallons
1,588 gallons difference x $3.50 gallon=$5,558 additional spending for heat

2021 hybrid sienna
100,000/36mpg=2,777 gallons
100,000/27mpg=3703 gallons
926 gallons x $3.50 gallon=$3243 additional spending for heat

Obviously no one needs heat 24/7/365 over 100,000 miles so this is the absolute worst case scenario. Over the next couple of months, the OP's mpg's will start rising back up (just like nearly everybody) so the price delta for running heat shrinks drastically. Folks in more temperate and even climates (SoCal for example), do not see as big of swings each year. I live in the deep, deep south so I don't see big drops for winter heat; rather I see lower but longer term costs for using A/C nearly all year long (it was 96F a couple of days ago). I never reach SoCal owners fuel economy numbers either.


Crank the heat baby!

 

[fotomoto]

This leads to my another musing that why won't Toyota put electric heaters in here? There has to be a significant reason other than cost.

I've done enough laps around the sun to finally realize the answer to the "why" when it come to man is almost always: money. And that's the simple case here too.

Yes, adding an electric heater to the equation would cost more; both to the initial cost of the vehicle and to the consumer through even lower fuel economy. REMEMBER THIS: in a hybrid, ALL energy comes from gasoline. Want to crank up the heat with an electric heater instead? All those BTU's would come from the small high voltage (HV) battery which would drain VERY fast. The battery is filled by the electric generator which is powered by....... the gasoline engine.

Electric heaters are necessary in PHEV's and BEV's where the ICE may or can not be used for heat. My C-Max Energi (a PHEV) pulls up to 5 kwhr for heat alone. One can watch the EV range numbers on the display plummet like a stone when the heat and defrost functions are applied. But in a PHEV or BEV, those lost kw can be replaced via the grid not necessarily gasoline.

Bottom line: it's more economical to run the ICE instead of an old-school electrical resistance heater in a vehicle that can't recharge with a plug. Thus, why?=money.

HTH

 

[04SiennaNow]

I've done enough laps around the sun to finally realize the answer to the "why" when it come to man is almost always: money. And that's the simple case here too.

Yes, adding an electric heater to the equation would cost more; both to the initial cost of the vehicle and to the consumer through even lower fuel economy. REMEMBER THIS: in a hybrid, ALL energy comes from gasoline. Want to crank up the heat with an electric heater instead? All those BTU's would come from the small high voltage (HV) battery which would drain VERY fast. The battery is filled by the electric generator which is powered by....... the gasoline engine.

Electric heaters are necessary in PHEV's and BEV's where the ICE may or can not be used for heat. My C-Max Energi (a PHEV) pulls up to 5 kwhr for heat alone. One can watch the EV range numbers on the display plummet like a stone when the heat and defrost functions are applied. But in a PHEV or BEV, those lost kw can be replaced via the grid not necessarily gasoline.

Bottom line: it's more economical to run the ICE instead of an old-school electrical resistance heater in a vehicle that can't recharge with a plug. Thus, why?=money.

HTH

I'm pretty sure Tesla uses a very efficient heat pump not resistance heating.

 

[fotomoto]

I'm pretty sure Tesla uses a very efficient heat pump not resistance heating.

EXACTLY! They must as resistance heat is so inefficient. My daughter's Prius Prime has a new tech heat pump and it works GREAT. It also cools better too.

 

[Bmac13]

Yes, adding an electric heater to the equation would cost more; both to the initial cost of the vehicle and to the consumer through even lower fuel economy. REMEMBER THIS: in a hybrid, ALL energy comes from gasoline.

Even though all energy comes from gasoline there are ways to use it more efficiently. An electric heater would significantly raise fuel economy for those that experience cold weather as several owners have already demonstrated with their clever use of the inverter by adding a heater to the cabin.

The current heating system depends on waste heat and requires the engine to run when it normally wouldn't. I would bet Toyota will eventually switch away from using the engine to heat the cabin for their hybrids in the very near future to increase overall fuel economy. They could use a heat pump or a very simple electric heater. Both would be much better than depending on running the engine.