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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been flip flopping back and forth between the sienna and the pachy, and would love to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each.

Sienna's pros:
  • Better mpg at 36mpg (on paper, but reportedly less than that in real world driving, especially with hills)
  • Toyota reliability
  • Better resale value
  • Less known issues (not a CDJR car)
PacHy's pros:
  • Stronger engine (v6 + electric) that helps with smoother ride, especially on hills
  • 31 miles on electric only + reportedly accurate 30-31mpg on gas
  • Better tech (e.g., wireless Android auto and Apple carplay)
  • Pano roof standard on middle (limited) trim
  • More storage
If I was leasing, I'd lean heavily towards the PacHy, but I'm planning on keeping this van for 6-8 years, so the reliability and resale value actually pushes me towards the sienna.

What are your thoughts (as objectively as possible)? Assume MSRP pricing for both (technically FCA pricing invoice -1% for pachy and msrp for sienna in my case)
 

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Consumer Reports' long term reliability ratings side by side: this is due to be updated in the fall. The Pacifica and Hybrid are lumped in together, and it doesn't look good. The anecdotes over on the Pacifica forums aren't exactly glowing.

While the Sienna Hybrid has just 1 year listed, Toyota's hybrid system has been around for 20+ years and not only considered very reliable, but reduces wear and tear on brakes and minimizes use of the catalytic converter. This particular 2.5L motor was introduced back in 2017 on the Camry and both it and its predecessors have held up well.

I'll admit to being biased, having had a 2nd gen Sienna for 18 years before its cats needed replacement. Both the Pacifica and Odyssey have not held up as well as the Sienna over the past decade+, CR doesn't have as much data on Kia minivans, so I didn't bother seriously looking into them.
 

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I've been flip flopping back and forth between the sienna and the pachy, and would love to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each.

Sienna's pros:
  • Better mpg at 36mpg (on paper, but reportedly less than that in real world driving, especially with hills)
  • Toyota reliability
  • Better resale value
  • Less known issues (not a CDJR car)
PacHy's pros:
  • Stronger engine (v6 + electric) that helps with smoother ride, especially on hills
  • 31 miles on electric only + reportedly accurate 30-31mpg on gas
  • Better tech (e.g., wireless Android auto and Apple carplay)
  • Pano roof standard on middle (limited) trim
  • More storage
If I was leasing, I'd lean heavily towards the PacHy, but I'm planning on keeping this van for 6-8 years, so the reliability and resale value actually pushes me towards the sienna.

What are your thoughts (as objectively as possible)? Assume MSRP pricing for both (technically FCA pricing invoice -1% for pachy and msrp for sienna in my case)
Our highway MPG has been above 36 MPG or better this summer and that is mostly highway with 5 people and full load of cargo. Above 40 MPG in city this summer. These numbers will be a bit lower in winter.

Siennas are not as well built as before but keep expectations for what it is... fuel efficient Family hauler.
 

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Sienna's pros:
  • Better mpg at 36mpg (on paper, but reportedly less than that in real world driving, especially with hills)
  • Toyota reliability
  • Better resale value
  • Less known issues (not a CDJR car)
1. I don't think you can just compare the two directly MPG wise and call it a day. The Pac being a plug in with 30 miles on the electric is huge. Depending on how you use it, the Pac could completely smoke the Sienna. If 90% of your time is spent just picking up the kids locally and hitting up the grocery store you could potentially run the thing every day without hitting a gas station in who knows... weeks?. I read a review by a woman who was at 650 miles and counting on a single tank of gas because she just never needs it.
2. Yeah we all know Chrysler is a joke compared to guys like Toyota & Honda reliability wise but with the money you save qualifying for all that money back you throw a massive extended warranty on the thing and forget all about stuff like consumer reports.
3. Yeah Pacs resale will no doubt be garbage, lol.


PacHy's pros:
  • 31 miles on electric only + reportedly accurate 30-31mpg on gas
  • Better tech (e.g., wireless Android auto and Apple carplay)
1. Yeah huge pro, like said above 31 miles doesn't sound like much till you realize you only use it maybe 25 miles a day before its right back on the wall charging without ever needing any gas.
2. Somehow I missed that the Sienna has no carplay? Christ Toyota...

I think you're missing the biggest pro though the Pac has. Being a plug in allows it to qualify for the fed/state refunds. For me that's almost 10k back, that's insane. That's some of the money you throw into those extra warranties so consumer reports doesn't keep you up at night. Sure it still sucks to have your ride in the shop but at least it's not out of pocket.


All that said as I mentioned in another thread I personally just didn't like the design of its interior and the wife would never buy that brand no matter how much $$$ we got back. Gas savings are not a deciding factor for us when shopping for a minivan.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Sienna's pros:
  • Better mpg at 36mpg (on paper, but reportedly less than that in real world driving, especially with hills)
  • Toyota reliability
  • Better resale value
  • Less known issues (not a CDJR car)
1. I don't think you can just compare the two directly MPG wise and call it a day. The Pac being a plug in with 30 miles on the electric is huge. Depending on how you use it, the Pac could completely smoke the Sienna. If 90% of your time is spent just picking up the kids locally and hitting up the grocery store you could potentially run the thing every day without hitting a gas station in who knows... weeks?. I read a review by a woman who was at 650 miles and counting on a single tank of gas because she just never needs it.
2. Yeah we all know Chrysler is a joke compared to guys like Toyota & Honda reliability wise but with the money you save qualifying for all that money back you throw a massive extended warranty on the thing and forget all about stuff like consumer reports.
3. Yeah Pacs resale will no doubt be garbage, lol.


PacHy's pros:
  • 31 miles on electric only + reportedly accurate 30-31mpg on gas
  • Better tech (e.g., wireless Android auto and Apple carplay)
1. Yeah huge pro, like said above 31 miles doesn't sound like much till you realize you only use it maybe 25 miles a day before its right back on the wall charging without ever needing any gas.
2. Somehow I missed that the Sienna has no carplay? Christ Toyota...

I think you're missing the biggest pro though the Pac has. Being a plug in allows it to qualify for the fed/state refunds. For me that's almost 10k back, that's insane. That's some of the money you throw into those extra warranties so consumer reports doesn't keep you up at night. Sure it still sucks to have your ride in the shop but at least it's not out of pocket.


All that said as I mentioned in another thread I personally just didn't like the design of its interior and the wife would never buy that brand no matter how much $$$ we got back. Gas savings are not a deciding factor for us when shopping for a minivan.
I have a rav4 prime and previously had a volt, so I'm used to the phev game. I'm also about to purchase a volvo s60 recharge (similar to rav4 prime with 41-42 miles electric only range)... I'm a big fan of competent phev, so that's one of the big draws for me with the pachy.

I'm less concerned about paying for the issues for the pachy (I'd get the max warranty given chrysler reputation), but more concerned about the wasted time dealing with any recalls or other technical issues (and being without a car during those times). That's probably my biggest hesitation for getting a pachy.

(I actually have gone over 1000 miles with my rav4 prime between refilling a gas tank.)
 

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Some of those somewhat common issues the pacifica are kinda scary. Would not want some of those “sudden braking out of nowhere” to be on the back of my mind while driving. Even with the gradual savings factored in with dealing a possible repair bill on that break issue.
 

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My dad's company used to lease for him various Chrysler cars, including a Pacifica (non-hybrid). While the Pacifica looked nice and upscale inside, everything creaks, and the build quality was bad. After one year one of the LED headlights stopped working. It was covered under warranty but did not bode well for future reliability. I bought the Sienna because reliability is important to me and I typically keep cars 15+ years. So by then resale value means nothing to me. By the time I actually sell a car, it's worth almost nothing.
 

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I buy a car with the expectation that it will get me to my destination without failing. The Pacifica fails that test.
Well said, confidence born from reliability. I’m the same way. I used to have a BMW, an Audi, and a Chevy and got tired of being stranded.

@Holdme makes good arguments re: cost savings because of PHEV. I wanted to like the PacHy but knowing what I do from being a reformed German car owner and a compulsive CR reader, I couldn’t sleep at night with it in my driveway. That’s a personal problem, I admit LOL.

Creature comforts weren’t on my final purchase criteria because this minivan is our family hauler and road trip vehicle. (1) safety, (2) reliability, (3) mpg were our “important factors” and the Sienna runs away with it. If technology, luxury, PHEV, etc are important to you then that formula would change a lot.

Honestly, all of these vans are pretty good when you consider them relatively. Slight advantages and personal taste are what it ultimately comes down to for most. That and availability/pricing these days.
 

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I've been flip flopping back and forth between the sienna and the pachy, and would love to hear your thoughts on the pros and cons of each.

Sienna's pros:
  • Better mpg at 36mpg (on paper, but reportedly less than that in real world driving, especially with hills)
  • Toyota reliability
  • Better resale value
  • Less known issues (not a CDJR car)
PacHy's pros:
  • Stronger engine (v6 + electric) that helps with smoother ride, especially on hills
  • 31 miles on electric only + reportedly accurate 30-31mpg on gas
  • Better tech (e.g., wireless Android auto and Apple carplay)
  • Pano roof standard on middle (limited) trim
  • More storage
If I was leasing, I'd lean heavily towards the PacHy, but I'm planning on keeping this van for 6-8 years, so the reliability and resale value actually pushes me towards the sienna.

What are your thoughts (as objectively as possible)? Assume MSRP pricing for both (technically FCA pricing invoice -1% for pachy and msrp for sienna in my case)
Hello again :)

In the order you listed your points:

- If you look up what the folks are reporting on Fuelly, the average mpg for the 2022 Sienna is 33, but about 1/4 of the drivers report 36 mpg or better
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  • As others have said, Toyota quality nowadays is not the same as it used to be. The Sienna I have has a number of minor, but annoying boo-boos (let me know if you would like to know the details). At the same time, the powertrain is a variety of the tried-and-true of the A25A-FXS that powers a whole bunch of the current generation Toyota hybrids, including the RAV4 and the Highlander.
  • Better resale value, at least at this moment, but who knows what will happen when the supply finally meets demand.
  • I haven't noticed - touch wood! - any serious issues that could incapacitate the car, and the CR seems to be fairly confident on this subject as well

Some bonus info: for the life of me I am not finding the powertrain either weak, or noisy. It's 186 HP continuous and 246 HP peak. It's sufficient for the tasks that a minivan is intended to execute. I am aware that some people from the Rockies do not consider our lovely Appalachians proper mountains, but we go up and down 7% grades a few times a week. The Gen 4 Sienna goes everywhere.

One of the huge advantages in my eyes is that you can get a Sienna with e-AWD, which is perfect for my needs.

I don't know much about the Pacifica in general, let alone PacHy, but I like its appearance better, and the PHEV is a huge plus, even though the 31 miles of EV range is not too impressive . My main concern is the "Chrysler thing" ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hello again :)

In the order you listed your points:

- If you look up what the folks are reporting on Fuelly, the average mpg for the 2022 Sienna is 33, but about 1/4 of the drivers report 36 mpg or better
View attachment 58154

  • As others have said, Toyota quality nowadays is not the same as it used to be. The Sienna I have has a number of minor, but annoying boo-boos (let me know if you would like to know the details). At the same time, the powertrain is a variety of the tried-and-true of the A25A-FXS that powers a whole bunch of the current generation Toyota hybrids, including the RAV4 and the Highlander.
  • Better resale value, at least at this moment, but who knows what will happen when the supply finally meets demand.
  • I haven't noticed - touch wood! - any serious issues that could incapacitate the car, and the CR seems to be fairly confident on this subject as well

Some bonus info: for the life of me I am not finding the powertrain either weak, or noisy. It's 186 HP continuous and 246 HP peak. It's sufficient for the tasks that a minivan is intended to execute. I am aware that some people from the Rockies do not consider our lovely Appalachians proper mountains, but we go up and down 7% grades a few times a week. The Gen 4 Sienna goes everywhere.

One of the huge advantages in my eyes is that you can get a Sienna with e-AWD, which is perfect for my needs.

I don't know much about the Pacifica in general, let alone PacHy, but I like its appearance better, and the PHEV is a huge plus, even though the 31 miles of EV range is not too impressive . My main concern is the "Chrysler thing" ....
Thanks again! ;)

I'd love to learn more about the minor but annoying issues that you've had (trying to minimize surprises for myself and my wife). A Chrysler dealer just got back to me and told me they'd be willing to give me an incoming PacHy at FCA pricing, which creates a collision course for me because both the PacHy and the Sienna would arrive around the same time (Oct'ish).

I love the PacHy's tech and power, and the relative peace of mind with a Toyota. I do hate the road noise in my Rav4 Prime but can tolerate it, so I expect it'll be a similar experience for the Sienna.

I've read a couple more threads in Pac Forums about people having various electrical issues and having their vans in the shop for weeks, which is giving my concerns about the Chrysler quality more and more weight as time goes on.
 

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Here is IIHS crash rating and headlight evaluation of the Chrysler Pacifica (2017-2022). Compare that with the Sienna. I think its fair to say the Sienna is much much better most aspects. Chrysler headlights are not as good as the Sienna's.
 

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Thanks again! ;)

I'd love to learn more about the minor but annoying issues that you've had (trying to minimize surprises for myself and my wife). A Chrysler dealer just got back to me and told me they'd be willing to give me an incoming PacHy at FCA pricing, which creates a collision course for me because both the PacHy and the Sienna would arrive around the same time (Oct'ish).

I love the PacHy's tech and power, and the relative peace of mind with a Toyota. I do hate the road noise in my Rav4 Prime but can tolerate it, so I expect it'll be a similar experience for the Sienna.

I've read a couple more threads in Pac Forums about people having various electrical issues and having their vans in the shop for weeks, which is giving my concerns about the Chrysler quality more and more weight as time goes on.
The minor-but-annoying issues have been:

  1. The Left sliding door got stuck open and had to be forced closed by hand (2 or 3 times).
  2. The Hatch/tailgate sometimes requires a hard, un-Toyota-like whack to shut properly. Can be mega-annoying, as you can't really detect with the naked eye if the tailgate edge is not aligned 100% with the body, and you only find it out a minute or twho into your tripo, when the TAILGATE OPEN alert pops up. If you get a Sienna with a powered tailgate, you won't have this problem. Also, @pamhar had designed a cunning fix for it, but I haven't applied it yet.
  3. The cable that controls the 2nd row (left) seat sliding mechanism slipped, got reinstalled, slipped again, and eventually replaced.
  4. On a rare occasion, the readout would declare a problem with the TPMS, and after restarting the alarm would go away.
  5. The soft padding on the door where I sometimes park my left elbow has sunk in, so there is a neat 1`" crater. I guess this is how you customize the car to fit your body more perfectly :)
  6. The central console cubby door can swallow stuff you put on it (for example if you hit the door release button accidentally when reaching for a beverage mug). I already fixed this problem, but some people had had fun time trying to fish out their small items from behind that door.
But notice all these issues are kind of 1st World problems, and the van has never been incapacitated or in the "limp mode". And otherwise the van has now done 49K and has remained pretty solid.

The road noise in the RAV4 (I test-drove both the hybrid and the PHEV) is really remarkable for a 20 century vehicle. To my ears the Sienna is not noisy, at least mine isn't, but some owners do complain about the noise.
 

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The minor-but-annoying issues have been:

  1. The Left sliding door got stuck open and had to be forced closed by hand (2 or 3 times).
  2. The Hatch/tailgate sometimes requires a hard, un-Toyota-like whack to shut properly. Can be mega-annoying, as you can't really detect with the naked eye if the tailgate edge is not aligned 100% with the body, and you only find it out a minute or twho into your tripo, when the TAILGATE OPEN alert pops up. If you get a Sienna with a powered tailgate, you won't have this problem. Also, @pamhar had designed a cunning fix for it, but I haven't applied it yet.
  3. The cable that controls the 2nd row (left) seat sliding mechanism slipped, got reinstalled, slipped again, and eventually replaced.
  4. On a rare occasion, the readout would declare a problem with the TPMS, and after restarting the alarm would go away.
  5. The soft padding on the door where I sometimes park my left elbow has sunk in, so there is a neat 1`" crater. I guess this is how you customize the car to fit your body more perfectly :)
  6. The central console cubby door can swallow stuff you put on it (for example if you hit the door release button accidentally when reaching for a beverage mug). I already fixed this problem, but some people had had fun time trying to fish out their small items from behind that door.
But notice all these issues are kind of 1st World problems, and the van has never been incapacitated or in the "limp mode". And otherwise the van has now done 49K and has remained pretty solid.

The road noise in the RAV4 (I test-drove both the hybrid and the PHEV) is really remarkable for a 20 century vehicle. To my ears the Sienna is not noisy, at least mine isn't, but some owners do complain about the noise.
I approve of your use of "cunning" :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The minor-but-annoying issues have been:

  1. The Left sliding door got stuck open and had to be forced closed by hand (2 or 3 times).
  2. The Hatch/tailgate sometimes requires a hard, un-Toyota-like whack to shut properly. Can be mega-annoying, as you can't really detect with the naked eye if the tailgate edge is not aligned 100% with the body, and you only find it out a minute or twho into your tripo, when the TAILGATE OPEN alert pops up. If you get a Sienna with a powered tailgate, you won't have this problem. Also, @pamhar had designed a cunning fix for it, but I haven't applied it yet.
  3. The cable that controls the 2nd row (left) seat sliding mechanism slipped, got reinstalled, slipped again, and eventually replaced.
  4. On a rare occasion, the readout would declare a problem with the TPMS, and after restarting the alarm would go away.
  5. The soft padding on the door where I sometimes park my left elbow has sunk in, so there is a neat 1`" crater. I guess this is how you customize the car to fit your body more perfectly :)
  6. The central console cubby door can swallow stuff you put on it (for example if you hit the door release button accidentally when reaching for a beverage mug). I already fixed this problem, but some people had had fun time trying to fish out their small items from behind that door.
But notice all these issues are kind of 1st World problems, and the van has never been incapacitated or in the "limp mode". And otherwise the van has now done 49K and has remained pretty solid.

The road noise in the RAV4 (I test-drove both the hybrid and the PHEV) is really remarkable for a 20 century vehicle. To my ears the Sienna is not noisy, at least mine isn't, but some owners do complain about the noise.
Super helpful, and besides your #1 issue with the sliding door and #3 with the sliding mechanism, the others wouldn't bother me as much. You're totally influencing me towards the Sienna.
 

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Super helpful, and besides your #1 issue with the sliding door and #3 with the sliding mechanism, the others wouldn't bother me as much. You're totally influencing me towards the Sienna.
Ironically, all the time I have been considering the PacHy and I even have a test drive scheduled for tomorrow .... and then there came a sign (captured by my dashcam) .... someone was having a pretty lousy day with a Paci on the shoulder of an interstate :(

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I've owned both. Sienna hybrid FTW. I'll never own a Chrysler again (and I try to not speak in absolutes).
Would you be in the mood to tell a little more about your experience with your Pacifica?
 
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