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Many dealerships are still asking over 5K cash markup?

Amazed that all these manufacturers/law makers are staying silent. These dealerships are largely responsible for bringing a recession to the auto industry. Minivan is not a pleasure or a sports car, it's a basic means of transportation for many large families, this is a very broken system. Used car market tends to follow new car prices. IMO, this price gouging is one of the reasons for the price volatility in used car market.

Why am I ranting? I need a fuel efficient van for my family of 6, can't buy lightly used because the prices are close to or higher than new MSRP, can't buy new because these f'in stealerships are greedy. BTW, I'm in a waiting list at Toyota Oakland since September, haven't received a single call yet. Tried calling dealerships in CA, OR, NV, AZ - no luck.

I may have to settle for an Odyssey. I'm seeing a lot more inventory of those cars, I think I can score a less than MSRP deal!
 

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You have a few choices, and, the best is to look nationwide for a Sienna. If you find one, you will have to get a plane ticket to that city, but if it saves you 5000 that is worth it for buying a plane ticket. (Probably 200 or 300 bucks, one way, you drive the car home). Cars in California are known to be expensive in the rest of the world, like gasoline is always higher in California. My brother did that. If you find one, give em your credit card number to hold it, then take delivery on a Saturday, if you like, and dont want to miss work. It would be a fun adventure to a new city..new car..and get paid to do it (well, save 5000 in markups). Or, many places will deliver it..for a fee.
I would not pay over MSRP, and found one about 40 miles away in Washington Court house Ohio, SVG Toyota.
Small town dealers are much more fun to deal with, too.
 

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Many dealerships are still asking over 5K cash markup?

Amazed that all these manufacturers/law makers are staying silent. These dealerships are largely responsible for bringing a recession to the auto industry. Minivan is not a pleasure or a sports car, it's a basic means of transportation for many large families, this is a very broken system. Used car market tends to follow new car prices. IMO, this price gouging is one of the reasons for the price volatility in used car market.

Why am I ranting? I need a fuel efficient van for my family of 6, can't buy lightly used because the prices are close to or higher than new MSRP, can't buy new because these f'in stealerships are greedy. BTW, I'm in a waiting list at Toyota Oakland since September, haven't received a single call yet. Tried calling dealerships in CA, OR, NV, AZ - no luck.

I may have to settle for an Odyssey. I'm seeing a lot more inventory of those cars, I think I can score a less than MSRP deal!
just buy the odyssey- they are cheaper anyway. the difference in price will more than pay for gas milage delta
 

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I hear you. My wife wants a Sienna but we can't find any new. There's a good selection of used Siennas but yeah they're 2 years old and at new 2023 MSRP prices. Chrysler offered me 3.9 for 60 months for a new Touring L (non-hybrid), it's getting tempting.
 

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If you drive a van 200,000 miles a Sienna will save around 4500 gallons of fuel. (Assume 36 mpg Sienna, 20 mpg Honda) The honda could do better if its lots of road trips (hiway is 28mpg, city is 19). Depending on where you live, and how much gas goes up the next 10 years, I will just "guess" 5.00 per gallon, its likely to be more even this year! That means the Sienna will save $22,500 over the life of the van (200,000 miles).

Given a real possibility that gas could well go "way, way up" from that, the Sienna is almost certainly a better long term buy than the Odessy, counting fuel.

In the short term, the Sienna is also better because the resale value of the Sienna is way better than the Honda, so it will cost you less to own it either way.

There is a reason why Sienna's are so hard to find, and the used ones often go above MSRP.

Even worse: Honda is almost certainly working on a minivan hybrid..they already have a great CRV hybrid, and accord hybrid. Then you would be stuck with a gas guzzling mini van no one would want, and that, too, would kill your resale value as soon as Honda introduces a new hybrid mini van, which may not be that long.

If you add on the additional $22,500 for fuel, the Honda, if you could find one for $40,000 winds up costing you $62,500 for a Honda mini van including the additional fuel cost vs the Sienna. This is probably a best case senario, we already had $5.00 per gallong and it will likely be much much much higher in 10 years, if your van lasts that long. So, the actual cost would likely be $30,000 or more for the life of the van in additional fuel costs on the Honda vs the Sienna.
 

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I'm surprised that they are even still making Siennas. They are selling more Highlanders. Most automakers seem to be doing the giant SUV thing like the 9000lb Hummer EV. Even VW decided not to sell the California (ironic) here. Not their fault Americans have poor taste in cars.

 

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While its true car gurus shows lots of cars in a search, try to buy one! (many have). Those cars go on car gurus, are often pre sold and "in transit". Im not sure if car gurus does this, the dealer or the software, but car gurus almost always shows cars that are not available, in reality. I have seen the same with Rav 4 hybrids, CRV hybrids, honda accord hybrids, etc.

Of these 4, the new ones at msrp are often sold "in minutes". I had a dealer call me with one, I drove 15 minutes to get there, and it was sold by the time I got there.

I have not driven a highlander recently, but, I agree there is some redundancy between Sienna and Highlander. One reason, the Sienna is not discontinued in favor of the highlander is: People interested in a mini van, "dont look" for SUV's. So, they would lose out, simply because the highlander did not show up in search results for a mini van. Its mostly a different class of buyers looking for an SUV vs those looking for a mini van. Even tho there is a lot of similarities, there is a barrier that exists between SuV's and min vans, that may only exist in people's minds.
 

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While its true car gurus shows lots of cars in a search, try to buy one! (many have). Those cars go on car gurus, are often pre sold and "in transit". Im not sure if car gurus does this, the dealer or the software, but car gurus almost always shows cars that are not available, in reality. I have seen the same with Rav 4 hybrids, CRV hybrids, honda accord hybrids, etc.

Of these 4, the new ones at msrp are often sold "in minutes". I had a dealer call me with one, I drove 15 minutes to get there, and it was sold by the time I got there.

I have not driven a highlander recently, but, I agree there is some redundancy between Sienna and Highlander. One reason, the Sienna is not discontinued in favor of the highlander is: People interested in a mini van, "dont look" for SUV's. So, they would lose out, simply because the highlander did not show up in search results for a mini van. Its mostly a different class of buyers looking for an SUV vs those looking for a mini van. Even tho there is a lot of similarities, there is a barrier that exists between SuV's and min vans, that may only exist in people's minds.
I believe at least it can set you up with a salesman though. I think that's how I got my Sienna. I used the message feature and the sales lady emailed me for a good deal....or maybe I just got lucky.

I had to drive for about an hour though. I actually know the guy at the dealer down the street and he wanted to charge me over MSRP. Some "friend" I have. Lmao.
 

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While its true car gurus shows lots of cars in a search, try to buy one! (many have). Those cars go on car gurus, are often pre sold and "in transit". Im not sure if car gurus does this, the dealer or the software, but car gurus almost always shows cars that are not available, in reality. I have seen the same with Rav 4 hybrids, CRV hybrids, honda accord hybrids, etc.

Of these 4, the new ones at msrp are often sold "in minutes". I had a dealer call me with one, I drove 15 minutes to get there, and it was sold by the time I got there.

I have not driven a highlander recently, but, I agree there is some redundancy between Sienna and Highlander. One reason, the Sienna is not discontinued in favor of the highlander is: People interested in a mini van, "dont look" for SUV's. So, they would lose out, simply because the highlander did not show up in search results for a mini van. Its mostly a different class of buyers looking for an SUV vs those looking for a mini van. Even tho there is a lot of similarities, there is a barrier that exists between SuV's and min vans, that may only exist in people's minds.

I looked at some SUVs. VW Atlas, Tahoe, Sequoia, etc. SUVs are big on the outside and small on the inside. Seemed kinda dumb. Even if I only have 4 people. I like sliding the seats all the way back and putting the 3rd row down. Camper van mode.
 

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I have not driven a highlander recently, but, I agree there is some redundancy between Sienna and Highlander.
Highlander does not have the hauling capacity of a Sienna. Go price any SUV with capacity comparable to Sienna, especially one with a hybrid drive train, and see what that will set you back.

Or go price MSRP on comparably equipped Highlander and Highlander hybrid and see the thousands of dollars differences vs. Sienna for that smaller vehicle. The Sienna has always been a bang-for-the-buck winner over comparably equipped SUVs and Highlander in particular. Improved styling among the various minivan models, awareness of the bang for the buck in an expensive market, and now a hybrid drivetrain, have caused some to look past the uncool factor with a slight blip in minivan popularity.

If you don't need the capacity don't buy a minivan. Or maybe you should anyway if Highlander is the other option.
 

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Many dealerships are still asking over 5K cash markup?

Amazed that all these manufacturers/law makers are staying silent. These dealerships are largely responsible for bringing a recession to the auto industry. Minivan is not a pleasure or a sports car, it's a basic means of transportation for many large families, this is a very broken system. Used car market tends to follow new car prices. IMO, this price gouging is one of the reasons for the price volatility in used car market.

Why am I ranting? I need a fuel efficient van for my family of 6, can't buy lightly used because the prices are close to or higher than new MSRP, can't buy new because these f'in stealerships are greedy. BTW, I'm in a waiting list at Toyota Oakland since September, haven't received a single call yet. Tried calling dealerships in CA, OR, NV, AZ - no luck.

I may have to settle for an Odyssey. I'm seeing a lot more inventory of those cars, I think I can score a less than MSRP deal!
Probably because there is no law against it. The "S" in MSRP is "Suggested". Meaning, they can charge whatever they want for a car.

I bet you don't complain when they charge less.

Pricing is based upon market forces. The dealerships can charge whatever they want during to lack of supply from the auto manufacturers.

Also, Odyssey transmissions are trash. Plan on a rebuild before 100k miles.
 

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Probably because there is no law against it. The "S" in MSRP is "Suggested". Meaning, they can charge whatever they want for a car.

I bet you don't complain when they charge less.

Pricing is based upon market forces. The dealerships can charge whatever they want during to lack of supply from the auto manufacturers.

Also, Odyssey transmissions are trash. Plan on a rebuild before 100k miles.
Exactly right. Car manufacturers don't like the gouging, but they cannot control what dealers do. Kia is doing the same thing with the new Carnival now.

The good news is that it seems the market is turning. I think there's a good chance in a few months the days of price gouging may be over. There is also a good chance we'll be a painful recession. But as long as you're financially secure and have a good job, a recession is like the world being on sale. During the last recession (2008) I bought an investment property and a new car, both for excellent prices.
 

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I doubt "price gouging" will ever be over. A leopard does not change his spots. Dealers charge "as much as they can get away with", and that has not changed, and probably wont change. And, this is not unique to cars. Have you bought eggs recently? (perceived) supply and demand determine prices. And, companies are not always forthcoming on exactly "what" the supply and demand is.
At least some of the carmakers indicated they plan on "keeping a leash" on making an abundance of new cars..
essentially "milking" this covid 19, for all they can. Fewer cars made, (supply) means higher prices if the demand remains the same, or increases.
 

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The good old days for buyers will be back soon. Supply chain issues, especially chip shortages, seem to be mostly worked out now. I would bet that the slowing economy and higher interest rates will dampen demand just as supply picks up this summer. There is the (no) small matter of working through the existing waitlists of pent up demand though.
 

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Amazed at how few people were taught economics. Markets are based on supply and demand. When demand is high and supply is low, prices go up. That is not a problem we need politicians to fix. If you don't want to pay the price an item costs, do not buy the item.... at least from there. Maybe you can find a similar or identical item at a better price somewhere else. Whether that "somewhere else" is at a Honda, Chrysler, Kia, or even a different Toyota dealership is entirely up to you. We live in a free market society, which means that if someone is crazy, dumb, or desperate enough to pay $45,000 for a $40,000 vehicle, and the finance company will carry it (more on that in a second), the folks selling the in demand item will get what they can get. Would you sell your house for $500,000 if you could get $650,000? Of course not. And neither are they.

The market will very soon work itself out. Dealers are now demanding cash markups because lenders are saying "enough is enough" and they're not carrying thousands over MSRP anymore. It's too risky for them if the borrower defaults once the car has depreciated $20k in a year. The banks are seeing it coming and protecting themselves. Now, all that's left is for people to start saying "I don't have $5,000 in cash in addition to my down payment." If 20 people in a row say that, the markup will go away. It's only there because people pay it.
 

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We live in a free market society
Agree with your entire post except this part. We’re a hybrid economy with some parts free/unregulated, other parts managed solely by governments (federal and local), and most parts somewhere along a spectrum in between.

As you said. Supply is down. Demand is up. Lenders are changing policies and dealers are doing everything they can to extract every last penny out of every last shopper.

If the shoppers stop coming in and stop buying, the sellers will adjust, but a free market we are not. We’re a hybrid market, at least according to the economics being taught.
 
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