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Anyone else pass on all hybrid Sienna lineup?

5182 Views 76 Replies 36 Participants Last post by  Dimitrij, 
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Not being produced with a conventionally powered (only) options removed the new Sienna from our list. Just wondering if anyone else did the same.

No sour grapes, Toyota can do whatever it wants. As can I.
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Dimitrij
I think your decision to remove the Gen 4 Sienna of your list is a win-win: You avoid driving a vehicle with a powertrain you don't like, and someone gets a chance to get their Sienna perhaps a little bit sooner :geek:.

The reason I jumped on the Sienna opportunity was a perfect combination of capabilities + versatility of a minivan with the operational costs of a subcompact commuter. And the cool factor, of course :)

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Dimitrij
20swrt said:
Ill have to admit - i was one of the hybrid skeptics for the past 2 decades. In fact, i thought all hybrids were the same design (Honda and Toyota). Back in 2010 i opted for a Mercedes diesel to save gas. CVT was the other solution - but i knew from back then that a steel belt (cvt) wouldnt be as reliable than a manual or regular auto. Toyota should not have marketed the hybrid as having a CVT - they should have called it something else because of the negative stigma of the CVT. Fast forward 2021 - the sienna was introduced. Rented one from Enterprise - loved it ! Did some research - and found that video above in 2021. Lo and behold - CvT is not the same as ECVT ! So simple and elegant. I placed an order sept 2021 and took delivery 2 mos later.
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Yep, Toyota does sometimes does like to speak with its corporate foot firmly lodged in its equally corporate mouth. If they think that "Power Splitting Device" or "Hybrid Synergy Drive" are hard to memorize or to pronounce, come up with something nicer, e.g. Epicyclic Hybrid Transmission (E.H.T), which it is.

P.S. I wonder how many hours did the marketing and branding department spent, conjuring the name Grand Highlander.
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Dimitrij
sienna_2006 said:
Where is the savings?
1) 4/5k premium for hybrid from traditional van
2) battery deteriorating over time
3) battery cost after 7/10 years @5k
4) total cost at end will be 10k more vs savings of 12k
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How did you arrive at the 4/5K premium figure, I wonder? I'm not saying that this is incorrect, just curious about the methodology :)

Also, what makes you think the traction battery will need to be replaced after its warranty period (10 years or 150K miles)? Warranty expiration means that the manufacturer will no longer replace or repair an item for free, should it break, not that the item will immediuately become defective after the expiration. With Toyota, we do not assume the vehicle is going to break in half at 36,001 miles just because the bumper-to-bumper warranty expired.
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Dimitrij
jseyfert3 said:
Please actually watch the video I linked. The Toyota hybrid drive system is NOT the sliding belt CVT.
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Indeed. As I said in post #42, Toyota sometimes likes to confuse people with misnomers or just awkward use of language :). Can't blame someone like
charlie7, who has never driven driven a Toyota hybrid, for thinking the it's a CVT, because, you know, Toyota calls is e-CVT :)
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Dimitrij
20swrt said:
That might be why GM killed the Volt (once voted car of the year). Its just too expensive to make.
From a manufacturing perspective - BEV should be the simplest to make. Followed by HEV. Hardest to make is PHEV because the battery is about 10x the size of a typical HEV. Hybrids are hard to make because it has all the components of a ICE plus BEV combined. The biggest challenge is making enough batteries to make PHEV and HEV. It might take a decade for battery mfg to make enough batteries to create healthy competition - similar to ICE mfg today.
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I think the Killing of the Volt was a purely political decision, because the Volt was a product of political arrangements in the first place. PHEV's are indeed the most expensive to make, but I don't recall GM having problems selling the Volt for a high price. Besides, the cost of mass-manufactured items depends on the volume of the production - the more is made, the cheaper per unit it usually turns out to be. And if GM had bothered to scale the Volt up to the size of the Equinox, they could have asked $50K for it (in the pre-Covid dollars) and beat both the Volt sedan and Bolt hatchback in annual sales figures.
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Dimitrij
cougarhound said:
Well Even Elon Musk warned the other manufacturers. I hear Ford is having issues with the Lightning. The Pacifica Plug in Hybrid had issues too and I think Chrysler is actually the leader in plug-in minivans....Kinda ironic since Toyota started it all. Toyota seems to have issues sourcing batteries for some reason. Prob cause it doesn't meet their standards? Can't think of any other single 7+ passenger EV/PHEVs in the US. VW delayed their ID Buzz.

I have Canoo EV stocks and I'm close to losing all of my money cause they are close to bankruptcy. Lol. Seems like once you get pass a certain payload size EVs just get very hard to make.
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Toyota has finally - at least on the pressroom noise level - come to the same conclusion that I did a few years ago: a 100+ mile PHEV would actually be a practical EV that operates as either an EV, or a highly efficient and powerful hybrid for almost all people almost all the time. What is taking so long.

I don't know about Canoo. I think the job of the Bizarre Looking Vaporware in the light-duty truck segment has already been taken by the Cybertruck, but maybe Canoo could explore the last-mile delivery vehicle market.

Toyota Planning Plug-In Hybrid Vehicles With Over 124 Miles Of Electric Range (motor1.com)
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Dimitrij
20swrt said:
See what I mean by Toyota Marketing ?
View attachment 62225
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Unfortunately, you are correct.

CVT has a bad reputation in the US, courtesy of Nissan, but others "helped along".

Presenting a markedly non-CVT transmission as CTV transmission, to the reliability-conscious Toyota crowd requires a remarkable level of tone-deafness. It's like naming your financial advisor office "Bernie Madoff & Swindlers".

As one of the Conservative commentators once said, "Nobody is born that stupid. To get that stupid, you need to go to a 4-year college" :)
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