[Nutinbutyotas]

Moved from a Hybrid Avalon Limited to ‘21 Sienna Limited. We needed more room for grandkids getting bigger and is so much easier to get in and out of. We loved our hybrid Avalon and continue to love the hybrid Sienna. We get 39-41 mpg with 45 K miles no complaints so far.

 

[abd4evr]

My only hesitation will be if they don’t make a plug-in version. I have a 2012, use it for everything, including towing my boat. Sounds like the hybrids do fine with towing (boat on trailer is less than 3,000#). But I would like to have the ability to drive in true EV mode on local stuff (most trips are in town, so that’s where I’d get a lot of benefit, especially with regen) but have the ability for long trips/towing bc it’s hybrid. Having a heat pump for heat/ac would keep ICE from cycling for climate control. But I dream. In the tyranny of SUVs, for Toyota to do a PHEV Sienna is asking a lot. Otherwise, I’ll baby my 2012 along until I can get a VW electric bus and keep my 2012 for towing. My wife has an electric Mini Cooper (only 100-130 mi range) and we love it. It is perfect for her commute to work (at most 50 miles, over one or two mountains, with regen it uses almost no battery on her 15 mile over mountain trips). No oil changes, no brakes yet, no gas. So I’m familiar with the realities of living with a BEV, too.

 

[bendgilbert]

I would have loved to have the hybrid powertrain. Huge gas savings, and Toyota has a well-proven track record with reliability and longevity of their hybrid systems.

However, we passed on the Gen 4 Sienna two years ago, since the middle row seats can't be removed. One of the primary reasons we have a minivan is for hauling larger cargo items, and not being able to get the full 8' length in the cargo area was a deal-breaker.

We ended up buying a low-mileage 2015 Sienna instead. The fuel mileage is not ideal, but otherwise it's a great vehicle and we still have under 30,000 miles on it. The tech is somewhat dated, but I actually prefer all the physical knobs and buttons to the overuse of touch screens anyway. We did an easy head unit swap to get Android Auto.

 

[catfish93]

The consensus that I've read seems to be that people love the hybrid Sienna for the gas mileage. There's some gripes related to interior build quality, noise, and some issues like faulty kick sensors draining the 12 V battery, but none of these are related to being a hybrid.

I test drove a 2022 RAV4 hybrid last year, loved it. I decided to both go for a minivan for more utility, and used for cost, otherwise I 100% would have bought a RAV4 hybrid or Sienna hybrid.

Why does being a hybrid remove the Sienna from your list?

Rideshare driver with a 2022 XLE FWD. Bought it for the fuel economy and only the fuel economy. Haven't had kick sensor issue since I don't use them. They only work when they want to anyway so I don't bother. Biggest issue besides the ones you listed with it being so cold is the lack of heat. The Sienna build heats the same any other car does, but the engine isn't on as much so the coolant temp bleeds off very quickly in cold weather. Last night it was in high 20s and I didn't even break 35MPG. The engine had to be on more to keep the heat at 71, and the battery is less efficient as well.

As Prii have aged to a point of getting drivability issues I would guess one coming from that camp would be hesitant regarding a Toyota hybrid powertrain.

Has anyone complained about the power? Seems on the low side.

The Sienna is adequate. No more. No less. I tell people "In most cars, you only need 70% of the gas pedal. In the Sienna, you use the whole thing. You don't really need more, but you definitely use the entire travel."

 

[jseyfert3]

Rideshare driver with a 2022 XLE FWD. Bought it for the fuel economy and only the fuel economy. Haven't had kick sensor issue since I don't use them. They only work when they want to anyway so I don't bother. Biggest issue besides the ones you listed with it being so cold is the lack of heat. The Sienna build heats the same any other car does, but the engine isn't on as much so the coolant temp bleeds off very quickly in cold weather. Last night it was in high 20s and I didn't even break 35MPG. The engine had to be on more to keep the heat at 71, and the battery is less efficient as well.

My last couple tanks have averaged just under 21 MPG, so "not breaking 35" because the engine was on more for heat sounds really good to me still.

 

[Broncofan]

Gasoline powered cars dont get the advertised mileage either, when you warm them up for a half hour..or idle to heat them, either.

For me, the hybrid is "all about saving money". It does not hurt a bit, either, that when I use less gas, it lessens the demand on fuel, so you can save money too (tho you probably wont notice it). In short, the hybrid saves "at least" $100 per month in gas. Probably more, if gas goes higher than $4 a gallon.

Just using EPA, which could be more or less depending on how you drive, here are the numbers:

At 15,000 miles per year, using EPA 36 combined for hybrid, 21 combined (year 2020) for non hybrid, you will consume 24.85 gallons MORE per month. (for the gas model). Or, 24.85 gallons of fuel saved with a hybrid.
If you pay an average of 4.00 per gallon, it will save you right at $100 per month (in fuel) to switch to the hybrid. If gas goes back to $5.00 per gallon, or more, then its $125 per month saved with hybrid sienna. And, in 10 years, who knows how much gas will be? $5, or even $6 or $7 is more realistic considering inflation, especially with gas.

If a hybrid costs $1500 more than non hybrid, you will make your money back, at $5.00 per gallon in less than 1 year. Whenever you can invest and be assured of getting your entire investment back in a year, its almost always a no brainer to go for it (the hybrid).

I buy exclusively hybrids, it seems to be throwing money away on gas guzzling non hybrids. It helps to think about it "as if" you had an old pickup that got 10 miles per gallon or less. You would likely be very tired of buying gasoline and paying 4 times as much as someone with an economy car getting a modest 40 mpg. To me, its like "buying insulation" for your home. It sure beats paying sky high gas bills. The only thing I regret about buying (my past 3 hybrids) is that I did not do it sooner. I would have saved about 100 per month in fuel for a much much longer time.

 

[xsnrg]

Hoping to get another 150k out of "PAM", our '08 LE with 305k on it. Just put new front axles and a wheel bearing on her last week. She's currently running on original transmission and a '12 Highlander motor I put in her about 2 yrs ago. She's basic, but she does her job extremely well. For example, a 2600 mi road trip in '21 with three kids, a dog, all our gear (have a roof top carrier) and a 5 bike Velocirax hanging off the back. I was more than thrilled with my 19 MPG average on that trip considering my daily driver is a 5.7L Tundra that gets 12.something around town and up to 17 on the highway if I keep it under 75 MPH. I'd probably look to buy a '15 or so lower mile ICE Sienna to replace her. Mostly b/c I know this engine very well after putting 270k on an Avalon prior to PAM.

 

[michaelvbrown]

Not being produced with a conventionally powered (only) options removed the new Sienna from our list. Just wondering if anyone else did the same.

No sour grapes, Toyota can do whatever it wants. As can I.

I agree, I do enjoy the hybrid efficiency. My sis has a prius and mom has the camry hybrid. I just don't want this set up on the van. Every vehicle of mine has purpose, I want more space and power in the van, not necessarily hybrid efficiency. Not to mention the higher cost to acquire and the extra registration taxes on hybrids

 

[slk]

Rideshare driver here who is enjoying the 30+ winter (36 mpg summer) mpg when I was only getting 22 with my 2013 AWD.

 

[jmu465]

Hoping to get another 150k out of "PAM", our '08 LE with 305k on it. Just put new front axles and a wheel bearing on her last week. She's currently running on original transmission and a '12 Highlander motor I put in her about 2 yrs ago. She's basic, but she does her job extremely well. For example, a 2600 mi road trip in '21 with three kids, a dog, all our gear (have a roof top carrier) and a 5 bike Velocirax hanging off the back. I was more than thrilled with my 19 MPG average on that trip considering my daily driver is a 5.7L Tundra that gets 12.something around town and up to 17 on the highway if I keep it under 75 MPH. I'd probably look to buy a '15 or so lower mile ICE Sienna to replace her. Mostly b/c I know this engine very well after putting 270k on an Avalon prior to PAM.

my 2004 went 425k miles In Wisconsin and never slept inside! And had more life in her…so Your goal is reasonable.

 

[charlie7]

Gasoline powered cars dont get the advertised mileage either, when you warm them up for a half hour..or idle to heat them, either.

For me, the hybrid is "all about saving money". It does not hurt a bit, either, that when I use less gas, it lessens the demand on fuel, so you can save money too (tho you probably wont notice it). In short, the hybrid saves "at least" $100 per month in gas. Probably more, if gas goes higher than $4 a gallon.

Just using EPA, which could be more or less depending on how you drive, here are the numbers:

At 15,000 miles per year, using EPA 36 combined for hybrid, 21 combined (year 2020) for non hybrid, you will consume 24.85 gallons MORE per month. (for the gas model). Or, 24.85 gallons of fuel saved with a hybrid.
If you pay an average of 4.00 per gallon, it will save you right at $100 per month (in fuel) to switch to the hybrid. If gas goes back to $5.00 per gallon, or more, then its $125 per month saved with hybrid sienna. And, in 10 years, who knows how much gas will be? $5, or even $6 or $7 is more realistic considering inflation, especially with gas.

If a hybrid costs $1500 more than non hybrid, you will make your money back, at $5.00 per gallon in less than 1 year. Whenever you can invest and be assured of getting your entire investment back in a year, its almost always a no brainer to go for it (the hybrid).

I buy exclusively hybrids, it seems to be throwing money away on gas guzzling non hybrids. It helps to think about it "as if" you had an old pickup that got 10 miles per gallon or less. You would likely be very tired of buying gasoline and paying 4 times as much as someone with an economy car getting a modest 40 mpg. To me, its like "buying insulation" for your home. It sure beats paying sky high gas bills. The only thing I regret about buying (my past 3 hybrids) is that I did not do it sooner. I would have saved about 100 per month in fuel for a much much longer time.

I passed. Don't want one .

 

[20swrt]

As Prii have aged to a point of getting drivability issues I would guess one coming from that camp would be hesitant regarding a Toyota hybrid powertrain.

Has anyone complained about the power? Seems on the low side.

 

[jseyfert3]

Wikipedia says a 3rd gen with the 2GR-FE engine, which would have been the one in the drag race, has 266 HP. Toyota says the 2023 Hybrid Sienna has 246 net system HP. The engine is only somewhere around 186, but assuming your battery isn't empty, when you floor for acceleration like in the above video, you get 246 HP, not 186 HP.

Wikipedia also says the 1st gen Sienna was ~200 HP, second gen was 230 HP from 2004-2006, and then the 266 HP from 2007-2016 (covering 2nd and 3rd gens), jumping up to 296 HP in the end of the 3rd gen from 2017-2020.

I don't think my 2014 is underpowered, and specs (and video) show for brief acceleration the Hybrid is gonna be about the same. Maybe Toyota took a step back in the "horsepower wars" that seem to affect all cars these days, but it's still got just a little less power than the longest running engine (the 2GR-FE) that was used for 9 years, and more power than Siennas had before that.

Also, I will keep saying: Within a couple years, Toyota will have a plug-in Sienna hybrid, the Sienna Prime, that will have over 300 combined HP. This is based on the fact that the RAV4 ICE is 203 HP, the RAV4 hybrid is 219 combined HP, and the RAV4 Prime is 302 combined HP. The ICE engine between the RAV4 hybrid and prime (plug-in hybrid) didn't change, but the larger battery let them use bigger motors and put out way more HP for short periods.

My gut feeling is that people passing on the hybrid Sienna because it's a hybrid haven't actually ridden in a hybrid. Like many, I poo-poo'd the Prius...then I actual rode in a coworker's Prius and I was like "wow, this this is nice, and it has a surprising amount of power!" Then I watched Weber Automotive's video on the Toyota hybrid transmission and I was like "holy &*@# this hybrid transmission is so simple and WAY less moving parts than a normal transmission!"

If you are passing on a hybrid BECAUSE it's a hybrid, please, go actually test drive one. Or if you have any idea how normal transmissions work and just how many moving parts and fiddly bits they have, watch this video and prepare to have your mind blown how mechanically simple the Toyota hybrid transmission is:

 

[Broncofan]

That's not that unusual. People "pass" on the hybrid without driving it, mostly because:
1. Social . They dislike the idea of a Prius. Happens a lot. Prius drivers are drivers that people "love" to make fun of....for a while. At least some of the time this is because of jealously...(gee, I would like to get 50 plus miles per gallon..I cant, so lets make fun of those who do)
2. Politics. ("tree hugger", and other derogatory names for people who got a prius because they felt it was good for the environment. It turns out its not just good for the environment, its good for the pocket book, too).
3. They fear the unknown. (Oh, I dont trust that hybrid.,.it will probably break down..).
4. Ignorance. "It has to be giving up horsepower to get that good of gas mileage..it probably cant get out of its own way.
Ive owned Hybrid's exclusively for several years now. The Honda CRV hybrid, the Camry hybrid, and a Corolla hybrid, all before my current Sienna hybrid. All held resale value "amazingly", and every one was sold used for more than it cost new. I like driving new cars, then selling them used for more. That possible due to the efficiency, and popularity of the hybrid, and because Im not the only one who wants to save money at the gas pump.

 

[bikermiker]

That's not that unusual. People "pass" on the hybrid without driving it, mostly because:
1. Social . They dislike the idea of a Prius. Happens a lot. Prius drivers are drivers that people "love" to make fun of....for a while. At least some of the time this is because of jealously...(gee, I would like to get 50 plus miles per gallon..I cant, so lets make fun of those who do)
2. Politics. ("tree hugger", and other derogatory names for people who got a prius because they felt it was good for the environment. It turns out its not just good for the environment, its good for the pocket book, too).
3. They fear the unknown. (Oh, I dont trust that hybrid.,.it will probably break down..).
4. Ignorance. "It has to be giving up horsepower to get that good of gas mileage..it probably cant get out of its own way.
Ive owned Hybrid's exclusively for several years now. The Honda CRV hybrid, the Camry hybrid, and a Corolla hybrid, all before my current Sienna hybrid. All held resale value "amazingly", and every one was sold used for more than it cost new. I like driving new cars, then selling them used for more. That possible due to the efficiency, and popularity of the hybrid, and because Im not the only one who wants to save money at the gas pump.

5. Prius will not fit their required need.
6. Is as exciting to drive as a Sienna without all the room.

 

[bikermiker]

My only hesitation will be if they don’t make a plug-in version. I have a 2012, use it for everything, including towing my boat. Sounds like the hybrids do fine with towing (boat on trailer is less than 3,000#). But I would like to have the ability to drive in true EV mode on local stuff (most trips are in town, so that’s where I’d get a lot of benefit, especially with regen) but have the ability for long trips/towing bc it’s hybrid. Having a heat pump for heat/ac would keep ICE from cycling for climate control. But I dream. In the tyranny of SUVs, for Toyota to do a PHEV Sienna is asking a lot. Otherwise, I’ll baby my 2012 along until I can get a VW electric bus and keep my 2012 for towing. My wife has an electric Mini Cooper (only 100-130 mi range) and we love it. It is perfect for her commute to work (at most 50 miles, over one or two mountains, with regen it uses almost no battery on her 15 mile over mountain trips). No oil changes, no brakes yet, no gas. So I’m familiar with the realities of living with a BEV, too.

This. Waiting for a PHEV or BEV.

 

[Thanh Linh]

Me too. Either PHEV Sienna or PHEV Carnival some days. My priority is VW EV Bus within 2 years. The next 2-3 yrs all prices will be stabilized even come down if the Fed. will achieve the inflation target. It surely will in my opinion. For the meantime I keep driving my beloved 2011 Sienna for another 100k+ miles.

 

[20swrt]

Ill have to admit - i was one of the hybrid skeptics for the past 2 decades. In fact, i thought all hybrids were the same design (Honda and Toyota). Back in 2010 i opted for a Mercedes diesel to save gas. CVT was the other solution - but i knew from back then that a steel belt (cvt) wouldnt be as reliable than a manual or regular auto. Toyota should not have marketed the hybrid as having a CVT - they should have called it something else because of the negative stigma of the CVT. Fast forward 2021 - the sienna was introduced. Rented one from Enterprise - loved it ! Did some research - and found that video above in 2021. Lo and behold - CvT is not the same as ECVT ! So simple and elegant. I placed an order sept 2021 and took delivery 2 mos later.

 

[cougarhound]

Once you go hybrid you'll understand why it is superior to conventional and you don't want to go back.

1. Getting 40 vs 20mpg.

2. All ice cars have that stupid start-stop "tech." This process is seamless in hybrids.

3. Hybrids are extremely reliable and easier to maintain. No drivebelts, transmission, etc.

4. Switches between idling and off to keep warm in winter. Useful for car camping and stuff.

5. No range anxiety compared to EVs. I get 500 miles of range.

I would say heavy duty towing is the only limitation but even Tundras are hybrids now.

 

[20swrt]

6. Instant acceleration (no lag).

7. Concience-free idleing (sitting) - even with A/C running.

8. I can move the car in/out of the garage without starting the ICE (except in cold winters).

9. No starter and alternator. No power steering pump, fluid.