Automatic Transmission Fluid
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I use the Notepad in general too but the best thing to do is to email a maintenance snapshot to yourself. That way it's accessible anywhere and searchable.
eg. Toyota Sienna tires rotated on 9/26/2010
Mileage: xyz
Discount Tire in San Jose, CA
When I want to look for stuff, I just search for Toyota Sienna
eg. Toyota Sienna tires rotated on 9/26/2010
Mileage: xyz
Discount Tire in San Jose, CA
When I want to look for stuff, I just search for Toyota Sienna
I know this is an old thread, but I can't stand to see misinformation being thrown around, which someone else may unwittingly rely upon as correct.
Some have stated that Mobil 1 synthetic is the same as Toyota T-IV fluid, except that it is synthetic whereas the T-IV is dino. The only part of that statement that is true is the synthetic versus dino; Mobil 1 is NOT T-IV. Mobil claims it meets specs for T-IV, but it is not certified as being T-IV compliant. There is a difference. Toyota can still say that you did not use specified fluid. If an ATF related failure were to occur, then you would have to try to go after Exxon-Mobil.
Toyota WS is also a different fluid. I haven't looked much into it, simply because I have no vehicle that requires it. But it is different. If a transmission factory filled with T-IV was back spec'd to accept WS, I personally wouldn't do it. They are different. You may have success. You may not. Just look at the whole thing with GM's Dexron VI being back spec'd for trannies requiring Dex II or Dex III. Some trannies like it, others give up the ghost on it.
I've also had some negative experiences on fluid changes, where the new fluid was not the same spec (but may have been deemed by the fluid manufacturer to be "compatible"). Two different vehicles, two different failures shortly after fluid changes that were not exact OEM spec. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe not. I'd rather just remove that variable.
The flip side is, many owners of transmissions that came filled with T-IV have successfully used something else synthetic. They are happy with it. For myself, I am not comfortable making that switch. I don't want to risk damaging a $2,000 to $3,000 transmission in search of a better fluid, when the T-IV seems to be serving just fine, despite that many say there is nothing outstanding about this spec. Fluids can vary greatly. So can the tolerance of one transmission model of different spec fluid - some are picky, some aren't.
One may also argue that Toyota can't force you to use their brand of fluid. And they're right. T-IV is supplied exclusively by Mobil. But it is not the Mobil 1 formulation, which is supposed to meet a variety of specs. It is their 3309 fluid - a single spec fluid. Your Toyota manuals will state T-IV or 3309, because they are identical, except for the bottles they come in. You could go to any autoparts store, maybe even Wal-Mart and buy 3309 there. Or, if you do homework, a lot of other makes of vehicles (including GM, Ford, Volvo, Mazda, VW, and the list goes on) have Aisin transmissions. Aisin is a subsidiary of Toyota. So some of these transmissions will need T-IV, and some will need WS. Dealerships of those makes will also carry those fluids (but don't rely on the parts desk jockey to know what they are talking about, find their part number for yourself). From what I've seen though, T-IV/3309 spec does not vary much in price from one source to another. I say pick your source based on convenience. If the day comes and there is a truly certified T-IV/3309 that is synthetic, then I'll join the line up to buy it. Until then, it's dino T-IV/3309 for me.
Your transmission. Your choice. But at least know what you're doing before you do it. If you want to find out more, do some reading at this forum as a starting point: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=16&page=1
Some have stated that Mobil 1 synthetic is the same as Toyota T-IV fluid, except that it is synthetic whereas the T-IV is dino. The only part of that statement that is true is the synthetic versus dino; Mobil 1 is NOT T-IV. Mobil claims it meets specs for T-IV, but it is not certified as being T-IV compliant. There is a difference. Toyota can still say that you did not use specified fluid. If an ATF related failure were to occur, then you would have to try to go after Exxon-Mobil.
Toyota WS is also a different fluid. I haven't looked much into it, simply because I have no vehicle that requires it. But it is different. If a transmission factory filled with T-IV was back spec'd to accept WS, I personally wouldn't do it. They are different. You may have success. You may not. Just look at the whole thing with GM's Dexron VI being back spec'd for trannies requiring Dex II or Dex III. Some trannies like it, others give up the ghost on it.
I've also had some negative experiences on fluid changes, where the new fluid was not the same spec (but may have been deemed by the fluid manufacturer to be "compatible"). Two different vehicles, two different failures shortly after fluid changes that were not exact OEM spec. Coincidence? Maybe. Or maybe not. I'd rather just remove that variable.
The flip side is, many owners of transmissions that came filled with T-IV have successfully used something else synthetic. They are happy with it. For myself, I am not comfortable making that switch. I don't want to risk damaging a $2,000 to $3,000 transmission in search of a better fluid, when the T-IV seems to be serving just fine, despite that many say there is nothing outstanding about this spec. Fluids can vary greatly. So can the tolerance of one transmission model of different spec fluid - some are picky, some aren't.
One may also argue that Toyota can't force you to use their brand of fluid. And they're right. T-IV is supplied exclusively by Mobil. But it is not the Mobil 1 formulation, which is supposed to meet a variety of specs. It is their 3309 fluid - a single spec fluid. Your Toyota manuals will state T-IV or 3309, because they are identical, except for the bottles they come in. You could go to any autoparts store, maybe even Wal-Mart and buy 3309 there. Or, if you do homework, a lot of other makes of vehicles (including GM, Ford, Volvo, Mazda, VW, and the list goes on) have Aisin transmissions. Aisin is a subsidiary of Toyota. So some of these transmissions will need T-IV, and some will need WS. Dealerships of those makes will also carry those fluids (but don't rely on the parts desk jockey to know what they are talking about, find their part number for yourself). From what I've seen though, T-IV/3309 spec does not vary much in price from one source to another. I say pick your source based on convenience. If the day comes and there is a truly certified T-IV/3309 that is synthetic, then I'll join the line up to buy it. Until then, it's dino T-IV/3309 for me.
Your transmission. Your choice. But at least know what you're doing before you do it. If you want to find out more, do some reading at this forum as a starting point: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=16&page=1
The 1st Gen Sienna (1998 through 2003 model years) call for a fluid that meets the Dexron III specification.
GM no longer licenses the use of the Dexron III designation, so we are forced to use a fluid that "meets' or "for use in" the Dexron III application.
The Dexron III specification is a pretty easy fluid to get.
I have read, also over on Bobistheoilguy, that folks have liked Redline D4 in the T-IV application.
Also, I have read repeatedly over there that Redline is VERY responsive to questions of what oil or ATF in their lineup is the BEST for your application.
I have been very happy with Redline D4 in my 2003 Sienna, again it calls for Dexron III specification.
I think that it is important that one pay attention to how their transmission is shifting, and replace the fluid promptly if they try a fluid that does not perform well for them.
Another issue is the fact that, from what I have read, some shops stock 1 or 2 fluids, and put an additive in that fluid to make it "meet" the specific specification that is called for.
I prefer to get a fluid that meets the specification needed to start with, but that is just my opinion.
The Sienna calls for different fluids over the years, so read the owner's manual for YOUR year to determine what specification is correct.
If you don't have an owner's manual, you can get FREE online access to it at the TOYOTA website.
GM no longer licenses the use of the Dexron III designation, so we are forced to use a fluid that "meets' or "for use in" the Dexron III application.
The Dexron III specification is a pretty easy fluid to get.
I have read, also over on Bobistheoilguy, that folks have liked Redline D4 in the T-IV application.
Also, I have read repeatedly over there that Redline is VERY responsive to questions of what oil or ATF in their lineup is the BEST for your application.
I have been very happy with Redline D4 in my 2003 Sienna, again it calls for Dexron III specification.
I think that it is important that one pay attention to how their transmission is shifting, and replace the fluid promptly if they try a fluid that does not perform well for them.
Another issue is the fact that, from what I have read, some shops stock 1 or 2 fluids, and put an additive in that fluid to make it "meet" the specific specification that is called for.
I prefer to get a fluid that meets the specification needed to start with, but that is just my opinion.
The Sienna calls for different fluids over the years, so read the owner's manual for YOUR year to determine what specification is correct.
If you don't have an owner's manual, you can get FREE online access to it at the TOYOTA website.
I asked the parts person at my local dealer which AT fluid I should use and told him the make and model and he referred to a chart and replied "type IV". He said that if you have a dipstick then it is type IV if not then it is a sealed transmission and it would use type WS. I said that my owner's manual stated I should use type WS and that I did have a dipstick. He looked puzzled and asked to see the manual. We then both went outside and I quickly pointed it out to him. He then suggested we check the dipstick. The dipstick had a sticker which stated that "Under normal driving conditions you should never have to change your transmission fluid." He went back into the garage and consulted several techs and came back out and said "do you remember what color the head of the dipstick was?" I said, yes it is black. He then said then that indicates type WS fluid. If it was red or orange it would use type IV. We then went back out to do a double check. Indeed it was black and he looked it over very carefully. He then pointed out to me that very faintly near the notched end of the dipstick were the letters "WS" laser engraved on the dipstick. So I went with the WS and he said that WS is compatible with the Type IV but that the type IV should not be used in a type WS transmission. He also said he would make a note in his chart that some 07s are to use type WS.....
I just did a drain and fill on my Wife's 97 Civic which uses the Honda AT-Z fluid. I decided to try Valvoline's Max life tranny fluid which contains synthetic stocks according to the back label. This fluid claims that it's compatible with even Toyota type I-V.
I did enough searching on Bob is the Oil guy and I have to say that I'm impressed so far with the tranny's smoother shifting.
I know there are a lot of skeptics out there, but I just wanted to mention this possible alternative. Next time I do a drain and fill with the Sienna I'll use this since it's only $19 Canadian for 5 Litres. I do have Mobil 1 universal ATF in there currently which sells for $9.99 a litre here.
Regards, JC.
I did enough searching on Bob is the Oil guy and I have to say that I'm impressed so far with the tranny's smoother shifting.
I know there are a lot of skeptics out there, but I just wanted to mention this possible alternative. Next time I do a drain and fill with the Sienna I'll use this since it's only $19 Canadian for 5 Litres. I do have Mobil 1 universal ATF in there currently which sells for $9.99 a litre here.
Regards, JC.
So you're saying adding a bottle of lubeguard:
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-177/LUBEGARD+Highly+Friction+Modified+ATF+Supplement
allows dexron/mercon to meet JWS3309 ATF specs? While lubeguard may say it does, it isn't endorsed by Toyota/Lexus as working in that manner. Other than lubeguard, where are you getting this info from?
http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-177/LUBEGARD+Highly+Friction+Modified+ATF+Supplement
allows dexron/mercon to meet JWS3309 ATF specs? While lubeguard may say it does, it isn't endorsed by Toyota/Lexus as working in that manner. Other than lubeguard, where are you getting this info from?
Jhong1226 said:if you accidentally use dexron/mercon there is a product called lubeguard, its an additive to the regular fluid so it could meet the toyota type IV specs. get the black bottle and not the red one.
And if you notice some members here actually use Valvoline Max life trans fluid and if you look closely it says Dex/Merc at the Front label and is a suitable alternative for toyota type IV.
Here's a link to their webpage and if you go to the specs tab youl see that toyota type IV is one of them.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/maxlife/automatic-transmission-fluid/37#b
plus one of the features of this ATF is that it has friction modfiers, which is what lubeguard does. Now Valvoline is a big company and I dont think they would dare put false info on thier product label.
Here's a link to their webpage and if you go to the specs tab youl see that toyota type IV is one of them.
http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/maxlife/automatic-transmission-fluid/37#b
plus one of the features of this ATF is that it has friction modfiers, which is what lubeguard does. Now Valvoline is a big company and I dont think they would dare put false info on thier product label.
Jhong1226,Jhong1226 said:
I've switched my wifes 97 civic over to Valvoline max life from Honda's ATF and it's fine. I also convinced my buddy to use it on his Hyundai which uses SP-III. I have Mobil 1 Universal ATF in my 98 Sienna, but I will be switching over to Valvoline max life this fall.
Regards, JC.
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9 Posts
Did anybody used Castrol High Mileage ATF fluid?
Thank you
Thank you
I used Castrol Import Multi-Vehicle for my 2004 as it says it's compatible with Toyota T-IV (I think that was the spec). I used this to refill after my last filter (dropped the pan) and fluid change (obviously). I don't know if it's coincidence but I have noticed the "Hesitation During 2nd Gear Shifting" issue seems to be worse. I didn't get the "re-flash download" for my transmission so I have always had this issue. However, it's noticeably worse now with 130,000 miles on the clock.
Aftermarket brands always seem to claim compatibility but I don't know if there is any research to confirm this. So it goes with both the T-IV transmission fluid and the Toyota Red Long Life Coolant.
Aftermarket brands always seem to claim compatibility but I don't know if there is any research to confirm this. So it goes with both the T-IV transmission fluid and the Toyota Red Long Life Coolant.
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9 Posts
Thank you for the info. For some reason I can't find Mobil 1 ATF so I guess I'll have to stop by Toyota dealer and get there ATF
If you're in California, they don't sell it here for some reason.2004Siennaowner said:Thank you for the info. For some reason I can't find Mobil 1 ATF so I guess I'll have to stop by Toyota dealer and get there ATF
You can always order it from autobarn.net
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