[brian_bp]

Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

The book claims that Group 35 was standard for 1998-2003 and 2004-2005, with 24F standard for 2006 and optional in earlier years. There is no listing 2007-up; it is a 2007 book!

For 24F replacement they list:

• "Custom fit": 624FMF or 634RMF
  • corresponds to Deka "Exact Fit" line
• "Premium AG line": 7AG78DT or 7AG75DT
  • corresponds to Deka "Ultimate" line with Advanced Generation feature
• AGM: 9A78DT
  • corresponds to Deka "Intimidator" line of absorbed glass mat type batteries
  • the usual (e.g. Optima) practice is to spec a group 35, but this a bigger group 34/78
• "Value line": 778DT

The book is anonymous, and gives Sears item 37725 as a cross reference for the 624FMF, and model numbers matching its own under Deka in the cross-reference table. It does appear that these batteries are being supplied by East Penn, and using their usual Deka product numbers.

Actual in-stock products:

• DieHard Gold with Deka custom fit numbers and "Series" 6000,
• DieHard WeatherHandler with same style numbers and "Series" 5000

For the Sienna: DieHard Gold: 624FMF; 24C-650 CCA, 820 CA; $114.99

This 624FMF is same dimensions as the 624MF - just reversed. Since a real BCI Group 24F battery is longer than a 24 or 24R, it appears to me that they are just selling the 24R under the 24F label as a global fit for all sizes of this height and width and any length with the "reversed" terminal post placement.

No Sears numbers are posted on the shelf or on product, so I have no way to compare this with the Consumer's Report listing.

The guy behind the counter says they sell lots of 24F, and says that 24F is supposed to be just reversed 24. I'll buy the first point (why can't I find our 24F size at WalMart or Costco?), but the size cheating I don't accept.

Variants of group 24

BCI GroupL (mm)W (mm)H (mm)
24260173225
24F273173229
24H260173238
24R260173229
24T260173248

• all are the same width
• 24F is longer (and has reversed posts)
• 24R just has reversed posts
• 24H is higher, and
• 24T is really tall

I'll admit this is not an authoritative list, since every BCI size list comes via some company which has reproduced it, and may have distorted the content.

I want my big 24F! At least a 24R (masquerading as a 24F) is bigger than a group 35.

 

[brian_bp]

I find it interesting that everyone apparently knows what a BCI Group is.

Hmm... spoke too soon. I see that I have confused one survey respondent.

The Battery Council International is...

the trade association for the lead-acid battery industry.

They set standards which their members (battery manufacturers) are supposed to follow, so that when someone claims to sell a "group 24F" battery, that means a specific size (and terminal post configuration) that should be the same for all manufacturers. This is much like the Tire & Rim Association, but batteries don't seem to follow BCI standards as closely as tires follow T&RA standards, and the BCI groups are just about external packaging, while the tire standards cover much more about capabilities of the products.

 

[topspy]

Next supplier: WalMart

~snip!~

WalMart is a source if the AGM route is considered, and may be the only convenient local source now that Costco no longer has Optima batteries.

Yeah....I've noticed that my local Costcos here in SoCal no longer stock the Optimas either. Too bad....they were at a really competitive price compared to other sources....if someone was actually interested in paying the extra money for one. I guess they just weren't as popular as they had hoped they would be. I don't know if they would be special order-able....??? ??? ???

Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

~snip!~

Just an FYI/clarification....
[brian]'s mention of Sears' actual automotive services provider (KAL Tire / Canada) does not apply to the USA. Automotive services and products offered at any Sears may vary depending upon the state and individual license status of Sears Auto Centers in your region and any contractual agreements they may have with service providers/franchisees/etc. AFAIK, Sears runs their own shops in the USA....where available. In addition, the same parent company also controls Kmart, so many Sears-branded products (DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc) are also now available at many Kmart locations. Pricing tends to be similar within a regional market area between Sears/Kmart, but CAN VARY at times due to special promotions and availability issues.

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

 

[brian_bp]

Next source: Sears

Sears auto centres here are no longer run by Sears; they are run by Kal Tire (a major chain), selling what appears to be the normal Kal Tire wheel and tire line, but Sears-branded batteries.

~snip!~

Just an FYI/clarification....
[brian]'s mention of Sears' actual automotive services provider (KAL Tire / Canada) does not apply to the USA. Automotive services and products offered at any Sears may vary depending upon the state and individual license status of Sears Auto Centers in your region and any contractual agreements they may have with service providers/franchisees/etc. AFAIK, Sears runs their own shops in the USA....where available.

I should have mentioned that "here", in my case, is Edmonton (and area), Alberta. Although Kal Tire is a nearly nationwide chain, they have no locations in the Maritime provinces, so I assume that another company is associated with Sears there... and perhaps elsewhere in Canada.

According to their website, Kal Tire sells DieHard-branded batteries even at non-Sears locations in western Canada.

In addition, the same parent company also controls Kmart, so many Sears-branded products (DieHard, Craftsman, Kenmore, etc) are also now available at many Kmart locations. Pricing tends to be similar within a regional market area between Sears/Kmart, but CAN VARY at times due to special promotions and availability issues.

That's a promising possibility ... especially since so far Sears has the only nearly-stock size product, and is the most expensive.

 

[Michael9]

I recently installed an Autostart Silver 24F (Advance AutoParts). So far so good. I was never able to determine if it's a Johnson Controls or Exide battery (it's not marked).

 

[brian_bp]

I recently installed an Autostart Silver 24F (Advance AutoParts). So far so good. I was never able to determine if it's a Johnson Controls or Exide battery (it's not marked).

Advance Auto Parts

The web site lists Autocraft-branded batteries.
Autocraft Silver 24F-5

I see there is also an Autocraft Gold 24F-6; strangely, the website's photo is of an Autocraft Titanium.

It appears from JCI's AutoBatteries.com that Autocraft is a Johnson Controls house brand for Advance Auto Parts and Discount Auto Parts.

I'll add this to the summary table.

 

[brian_bp]

Another supplier (at least in Canada): Canadian Tire

Canadian tire carries almost exclusively house-branded batteries, like most retailers. They have one billed as a group 24F:
Motomaster M72-24F-600
CTC item number 10-2472-0
700 CA, 600 CCA, 90 RC
Made in USA by unknown manufacturer
$100

By the way, the model numbers are just "M" for "Motomaster", "72" for length of warranty in months, dash, the BCI group size, dash, and the cold cranking amps rating. The item numbers at Canadian Tire usually don't have any readable meaning other than the first two-digit part indicates a department, but in this case they indicate the group number (this model seems to be sold as for group 24F or group 72 applications).

Their "premium" line is the Eliminator, which has a longer warranty. In that line there is no group 24; the group 35 is $100.

The commercial 6V battery on the shelf is an Exide, and they have one Orbital group 34 with centred posts (#34XCD Purple Haze cycle duty); Orbital is Exide's AGM brand, and I am guessing that the entire line at Canadian Tire is supplied by Exide.

I have updated the table.


I am highly biased against Canadian Tire as a source of batteries due to my experience with an earlier vehicle. We bought an Eliminator battery (group 24 by coincidence) for our Chev pickup, and had to get it replaced twice under warranty, just as the weather got cold each winter. On the third round we took a pro-rated refund instead and bought some other brand of battery from our tire store, which worked fine for several years (so it wasn't the truck's fault). One bad battery I can see... but three in a row in successive years?


By the way, despite the dominance of Johnson Controls (JCI), we now have examples of stores carrying house brands made by JCI, Exide, and East Penn.

 

[homer]

I've experienced the same thing with Can.tire many years ago but apparently they changed their supplier.

Its probably true since the last battery bought there is still performing very well after 6 years in my old Buick.

 

[brian_bp]

I'm still plugging away at this, and have checked out another source: NAPA Canada

NAPA carries batteries which have some model names that suggest they are from East Penn, and the sales person volunteered without prompting that East Penn is indeed the manufacturer. Strangely, some of the model names look like those used on batteries supplied by Johnson Controls.

They have roughly four lines (in ascending order of price):

• Powerstart
• Power
• Legend
• Platinum - likely East Penn's premium "Advanced Generation" construction, sold as Deka Ultimate

Only the Power line has a BCI Group 24F battery:

• 24F-6
• 650 CCA rating
• C$136

The "24F-6" designation, which presumably just means 24F size and about 6 hundred cold cranking amps, is exactly how the Autostart Gold branded batteries are designated... and they're built by Johnson Controls.
The same sales guy says that the "F" in 24F means "Ford"... which is probably not true, but is more trivia for anyone interested.

The product sheets list the DT34/78-7 or DT34/78AG-7 models for group 24F replacement; these numbers don't quite match Deka numbering, but may be the Deka ExactFit and Deka Ultimate equivalents (guessing from the "AG" in a non-AGM battery). This is the approach taken by topspy, but in this case (as with many multi-fit batteries of this style with dual terminals) the terminal posts are in the middle of the width of the battery, so instead of mounting it with the terminals on the correct (back) side but wrong ends, it is mounted with the terminals on the correct ends, but the cables need to reach in further over the battery.

As at Sears/Kal Tire, the group 24 and group 24F batteries have the same case size, so it seems to me that this model is being sold for 24R and 24F applications. It's still a bunch bigger than a group 35...

I suspect that NAPA in the U.S. and NAPA Canada have different battery product lines, even from different manufacturers.

I will update the summary table with this information.

 

[tbalon]

I was checking at my local Wallmart and came across the following battery. It is a group 24FS which the catalog says should fit the Sienna. It seems to be pretty stout with 700 CCA. It is made by Johnson Controls and has a 3 year free replacement warranty. Sells for $75 which seems reasonable.

 

[brian_bp]

I was checking at my local Wallmart and came across the following battery. It is a group 24FS which the catalog says should fit the Sienna. It seems to be pretty stout with 700 CCA. It is made by Johnson Controls and has a 3 year free replacement warranty. Sells for $75 which seems reasonable.

That looks like a good choice, and a good match for the battery supplied as original equipment and sold by Toyota dealers. Unfortunately for me, it is not offered here (at least in my local WalMart).

While the model name ends in 24FS, I believe that the BCI group size is 24F... the "S" could mean anything, but isn't part of the size.

I have added this battery to the summary table.

 

[brian_bp]

I've done another round of minor updates to the table, with some Costco US information supplied by topspy. A summary of sizes will follow later.

 

[tbalon]

FWIW, According to Consumer Reports, December 2008, car batteries cost and ratings are as follows (best ratings are at the top of each Group):

Group 24 /24F
Interstate Mega-Tron Plus MTP-24 $101 83
CR Best Buy EverStart Maxx-24N (North) $75 82
CR Best Buy EverStart Maxx-24S (South) $75 78
DieHard Gold 33123 (South) $110 76
Duralast Gold 24-DLG $89 75
AutoCraft Titanium 24-6 $85 72
DieHard Gold 33023 (North) $110 59
Interstate Mega-Tron II MT-24 $88 43

 

[tbalon]

While the model name ends in 24FS, I believe that the BCI group size is 24F... the "S" could mean anything, but isn't part of the size.

I believe the "S" refers to a battery designed for the South or southern region of the U.S. Whereas an "N" would designate North or the northern region.

 

[brownmichael]

http://www.pacificpowerbatteries.com/aboutbatts/Car%20Battery%20FAQ/carfaq7.html

This is an interesting discussion of battery types incuding the issue of batteries made for northern and southern climates.

Mike Brown
Vancouver, WA

 

[wtzouris]

I can't believe no one mentioned the ultimate battery, the Optima Spiralcell Yellow top with height adaptor.. owned by Interstate, the Optima will last 6-7 years in a Sienna, and can be deep discharged up to 100 times without affecting the life of the battery. it is leak proof because it has a chemical paste instead of liquid sloshing around. the construction is like a six- pack of beer ( 6 cells). I got mine at Costco it is like $175 but worth every penny. I think Optima calls it size 35..I will post more info..

 

[wtzouris]

optima D35

http://www.optimabatteries.com/_media/documents/specs/D35.pdf

 

[wtzouris]

2nd gen Sienna was group 24F, new 2011 Sienna is 24R
Note: Optima suggests the same battery size for all 2004 - 2011 Siennas

Size 35 or D35

I always recommend yellow top over red top for automotive applications, because you are likely to run accessories with the engine off, and that is what the yellow top does best -- while still giving you enough power to start the engine.

VEHICLE: 2009 TOYOTA SIENNA 3.5L : : V6 : GAS


RedTop: High-CCA starting battery. Provides engine cranking power for vehicles with stock or average electrical loads.

YellowTop: Dual-purpose starting and deep cycle battery. Provides engine starting power plus deep cycle capacity to support multiple accessories , demanding electrical systems , and vehicles without alternators.


2 Parts Found
Group # Description
35 (8020-164) RedTop®; Battery;
D35 (8040-218) YellowTop®; Deep Cycle Battery;

 

[brian_bp]

The Optima, and specifically the group 35 size, were discussed early in this topic; the red-top is listed in the comparison table in an early post.

Although the yellow-top Optima line is intended for dual-purpose use, it does not have as much cranking current capacity (at either test temperature, in the same size) as the red-top. The yellow-top does have better low-rate capacity (for deep-cycle use), but at 25 amps (the "reserve capacity") the yellow's advantage is small. I can see getting the yellow-top if running down while parked long-term is an issue, but for normal use the red-top seems like both the more obvious choice and the better specifications. The red-top is also a bit lighter. Neither is a good fit, because in both cases it is a group 35 size (there is no group 24/F/R Optima).

Trivia: according to something I read (sorry, no reference link available), the 24F is a variant of group 24 defined for Ford, who presumably wanted to mount the battery on the opposite side of the engine compartment from General Motors.

 

[topspy]

I can't believe no one mentioned the ultimate battery, the Optima Spiralcell Yellow top with height adaptor.. owned by Interstate, the Optima will last 6-7 years in a Sienna, and can be deep discharged up to 100 times without affecting the life of the battery. it is leak proof because it has a chemical paste instead of liquid sloshing around. the construction is like a six- pack of beer ( 6 cells). I got mine at Costco it is like $175 but worth every penny. I think Optima calls it size 35..I will post more info..

In my area of SoCal (YMMV), Costco no longer carries the Optima line of batteries. Even when they did have them, I noticed that different locations would carry different ones (RedTop, YellowTop, BlueTop). Most carried the RedTop ONLY (and ONLY in 1 size), while some also carried either the Yellow or Blue, or both. I don't know, but I'm guessing that they didn't sell too well. It also looks like they have been consolidating/shrinking the models of regular car batteries that they stock. There are very few sizes available these days. I don't know if that is a reflection of car manufacturers beginning to specify the same few common battery sizes, or if it is because Costco is cutting back on less popular sizes to reduce their inventory levels....or a combination of both factors.

I've always been intrigued by them and I had often considered trying an Optima (in past cars too), but found that I never managed to convince myself that the extra premium price (even with Costco's lower pricing) was worth the incremental benefits. But that's just me....

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)