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Engine Overheating at low speeds - Coolant System troubleshooting

2910 Views 8 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  Desmocedici
2004 Sienna LE FWD with 140k miles on it (original owner). My college bound son has been driving it most of the time recently

We are relatively newbies as far as intricate knowledge about all components of cars and looking for some advise and guidance.

Here is a chronology of events:
  • Last week noticed that during a traffic jam that AC stopped sending cool air but seemed to be working better at the higher speeds on the highway
  • Couple of days later when he drove it again, noticed that the engine was overheating at lower speeds (going above 50% in the H to C temp. gauge on the dash and going to normal temperature below 50% on the gauge at higher speeds)
  • Drove aound 70-90 miles over couple of days in this situation
  • Finally when we started troubleshooting, noticed coolant reservoir was very low, so added 50-50 mix of anti-freeze. Tested the radiator fans and they seem to be working ok, with even the speed increasing (just observed listening with hood open, without tools) when engine started to warm up
  • Test drove again next day (Friday) and only noticed a minor blip of overheating even at low speeds
  • During the weekend with most mechanics booked up or closed on Sunday, spent time with my son learning (on youtube) all the components of the cooling system (radiator core, fans, thermostant, coolant thermostat sensor, hoses, head gasket, water pump, heater core etc and how everything works together to keep engine cool as well as the cabin airconditioning which has its own incremental parts like condensor, freon, etc)
  • We also noticed potential leak marks underneath including dripping today from the front near radiator area. But with overnight rains we were not sure where exactly the leak might be. More on this later.
  • Took it to a mechanic today and he only had enough time to do a 30 min evaluation. He added water in both the opening with the pressure cap (added probably around a quart or two) with signs of some air bubbles and also in the reservoir tank. Then wanted to do a pressure test through the raidator cap opening but Toyota messed up design/placement of this opening because there is not enough vertical clearance/space to add a tool on top (mechanic even tried jacking up engine at angle to create space but to no avail).
  • Mechanic narrowed down to radiator potentially being the issue and is going to quote on that but after getting back home we think there could be another issue
  • Side note: While mechanic was working on this he noticed and we too for the first time that at low rpm with AC turned on, the condensor/alternator area where thebelts are running was making a clicking sound. He suspected it to be Freon imbalance and proceeded to address that by adding Freon with pressure gauges hooked on and artifically increasing RPM temporarily using some tool he got and adjusting something underneath steering wheel area)
  • When we got home, my son and I proceeded to inspect the leak. We did not see dripping from radiator area like we had seen earlier (so probably that was rain water). Instead we noticed that there was some dripping/leaking potentially of the coolant under the car (in area right below where the passenger side- pic attached) . Put few layers of paper towels and it was clear. Most likely its the distilled water (that the mechanic put in) because that general spot seems to be where the previous coolant drips had dried up in our driveway. Only other thought is that it could be condensation from AC working (unlikely, but just putting it out there based on a theory floated by a person I spoke via phone at dealership).
  • So the question is if the coolant is leaking from that spot does that help narrow down which part of the system. Only one I can think of that far back could be the water pump (which can be labor intensive to replace, hope its something less simpler and cheaper to fix)
  • FWIW, we test drove at different speeds for about 3-5 miles with AC at full blast and did NOT notice the engine temperature exceeding beyond normal and also AC working better (probably due to added Freon)
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If the van is overheating and the coolant is low, you need to add coolant. If it's still low, you have a leak. I'd probably take it to a trusted mechanic and say that you believe you have a coolant leak and then let them fix it. It can leak from a hose or the water pump or the neck or the radiator or a bunch of other places. Worse, when you have one small leak, you often have several other small leaks. Worse still, a small leak can rapidly turn into a giant leak and strand you or destroy your car.
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It looks like water is dripping from the evaporator drain which is normal when the AC is running. The higher the humidity the more water will drain. It's not a concern.

Since the van is no longer overheating around town with the AC on, and the AC is working well again, it seems as if topping off the low engine coolant and adding refrigerant solved the problem. Keep an eye on the coolant level as your van/engine doesn't normally lose coolant. A small crack between the radiator side tank and aluminum core is a very common spot to find leakage on your '04.
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It looks like water is dripping from the evaporator drain which is normal when the AC is running. The higher the humidity the more water will drain. It's not a concern.

Since the van is no longer overheating around town with the AC on, and the AC is working well again, it seems as if topping off the low engine coolant and adding refrigerant solved the problem. Keep an eye on the coolant level as your van/engine doesn't normally lose coolant. A small crack between the radiator side tank and aluminum core is a very common spot to find leakage on your '04.
Appreciate your input.

On one hand I feel good that its not overheating again, but then I realize we had about half to 3/4th gallon worth of coolant/water added, that pushes me to think what else could be going on. Lot of thoughts crossing the mind like a) buy 90 degree adapter to use with a pressure testing kit that can be rented at no cost from AutoZone or NAPA parts etc. and/or b) get the mechanic or some place to do a full radiator/coolant flush (especially since I have mix of probably 2 different colored coolants and the distilled water in the system. Thoughts?

BTW, I got a new radiator cap delivered today and will be putting it on.
If the van is overheating and the coolant is low, you need to add coolant. If it's still low, you have a leak. I'd probably take it to a trusted mechanic and say that you believe you have a coolant leak and then let them fix it. It can leak from a hose or the water pump or the neck or the radiator or a bunch of other places. Worse, when you have one small leak, you often have several other small leaks. Worse still, a small leak can rapidly turn into a giant leak and strand you or destroy your car.
Yes that is the worry about a small leak thats currently hard to detect.

Interesting situation we find ourselves in, we are hoping to keep the van for another year or two till our younger son gets his permit and learns to drive. But then facing the reality that there is potential for lot of high cost items we will be needing to fix. Cannot afford time and cost in getting a new replacement vehicle especially in the current environment where demand is far higher than supply. So trying to educate as much as possible so that I can keep ensure the mechanics/shops know what I am talking about and dont run up their estimates or costs.
In addition to replacing the radiator cap, should I consider any over the counter products (additives) to mix in with the coolant to help the entire system (thinking contaminants and maybe even air pockets if any)
I think for peace of mind I'd get that 90° adapter and pressure test the cooling system. Don't bother flushing the cooling system until you find the leak.

The problem could be as (relatively) simple as replacing the radiator or a leaky hose. Flush and refill the cooling system after whatever needs fixing is fixed. No need for chemicals. You'll get air pockets but those work themselves out over several days driving and adding coolant to the reservoir.
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In addition to replacing the radiator cap, should I consider any over the counter products (additives) to mix in with the coolant to help the entire system (thinking contaminants and maybe even air pockets if any)
Additives are the last-ditch hope for a dead car that hasn't realized it's dead yet. You're not there. Additionally, they normally don't "fix" the problem. They only mask it (and create other problems) for a short period of time. If you had a small leak and haven't checked your coolant level in a year or two, it's entirely likely that it was just low on coolant (plus the small leak) which caused the overheating. Replacing the cap is generally a fine thing to do, but I would caution against replacing much of anything before verifying where the leak is. You might end up actually CAUSING problems and then having to chase down the original issue(s) AND deal with the new issue(s).
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before you spend any money on parts, rule out a head gasket issue. we had similar symptoms with our sienna. the culprit was the head gasket; it was blown, introducing air into the system that created air pockets and would periodically be blown out of the reservoir leading to low coolant. they check the headgasket by doing a pressure test (?). do that before spending money elsewhere b/c it could lead to your car being mechanically totaled. $3k to fix a $4k car. Sorry for the bad news, and I hope your issue NOT the headgasket. GL
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