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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have 12 dealers in and around my city. Called all of them about 40 days ago about a Sienna purchase.

About half were willing to sell at msrp. Others were 2k to 5k over with one talking about 10k over because the sky was going to fall type of exaggerations. I kept contact with only the msrp dealers.

Only 3 of the 6 msrp dealers were mostly truthful. I kept the liars on my list just in case i could get a decent deal out of them.

All 6 tried to get me on board for a 21. I was willing to go that route only if they would discount them. My research was telling me 22's were in production so why would i pay the same money 21 vs 22.

The liars tried to tell me i could put a deposit on a 22 but i would be looking at a jan-march delivery. And with the chip shortage/pandemic, not even that was guaranteed ect ect.. high pressure sales tactics and fear mongering..

The truthful dealers said ok with us if you want to wait. We get allocation at beggening and middle of each month. We will call you when we get allocation.

I missed out on the mid September allocation because i missed a call and when i called back the van was reserved.

I was only interested in a silver LE with specific options.

On Oct 4, 4 dealers called me. 1 said no 22 allocation, please buy our 21.
2nd had only 3 xle's. 3rd had 3 LE's but white, grey and red.

4th dealer simply said i don't have your specific van but give me a couple of hours and I can trade for one.

Pipeline tracking on my 22 silver LE is

Built Oct 4
Departed railhead Oct 5
Arrival at railhead Oct 12
Dealer PDI + full tint (Oct 17)
Should be picking up Oct 19

39.5k out the door

Thank God the LE is optioned well for most people's needs. $5300 for fake leather and a power liftgate to get the xle is absurd imo

20k worth of options from LE to Platinum for fundamentally the same van. In a Porsche ok, but in a minivan. My Carrera S with full leather option (3 cow hides worth w beautiful stiching) didn't cost 5300.

That criticism is directed squarely at Toyota. I don't have any problem with people who are willing to pay for options that are important to them. More power to you, your money, your choice. Just feel that Toyota is putting profits above all. Ex I would have to pay about 8k more just to qualify to get the rear entertainment system. 5300 for just a pwr liftgate.

A professionally installed roof mounted dvd player with better integration can cost as little as $600

Despite the gripes, Toyota reliability and MPG sold me on the Sienna.
 

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I was with you on the LE until I found it has
-no smart key for auto door unlock
-no second row captains chairs and limited sliding position
-no option for 1500w inverter

The other stuff is a bonus, except the softex, which I hate in the summer but is passable in winter. I definitely feel where you are coming from and how it seems profit motivated
 

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Dealers suck. Wish we could just order on Toyota.com (or Porsche in your case — got any pics?) and pay MSRP and be done with it. If the dealers aren’t going to make buying cars cheaper or easier, they have outlived their purpose.

Welcome! Hope you enjoy your new ride
 

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was with you on the LE until I found it has
-no smart key for auto door unlock
-no second row captains chairs and limited sliding position
-no option for 1500w inverter
Also, no power rear lift gate.
Also, no kick sensors on sliding 2nd row doors.
Also, no moonroof (a plus in the eyes of some).

Were some of the OPs dealers lying? Maybe, but you have no way of knowing. They had no idea how severely Toyota corporate would slash production in September, then again in October.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I'll tell you what I was told, you tell me if he was lying.

He wanted me to buy his 21 LE at msrp. Said there were only 8 Sienna LEs left in the country and 22 Siennas would not hit dealer floors til January 2022.

So he is trying to say there will be no Sienna LE other than the 8 he mentioned for 2 months in the usa.

That's just one example. Lots of other absurd statements. Do salespeople think we are children? Some are dumb enough to not know the customer is on to them...

I told the 10k over guy, the market will correct, your reputation won't. He gave me the lame excuse that since used vans were selling at new prices, new vans had to be marked up.

I don't know how to post pics yet for the other poster.

On options, if i could order how I want, i would just get premium carpet, spare tire, power liftgate, and the over priced entertainment monitor.

Im not spending 10k for liftgate + monitor.

My kids are in car seats so captains chairs dont matter. What is the difference between LE 2nd row seats and xle? What makes it a captain chair?
 

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2009 Sienna LE FWD & 2021 Sienna LE FWD
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My "kids" (more like young adults now!) didn't think the XSE/XLE seats were worth the upgrade money. they seem pretty happy with the LE. They liked the extra sliding in the XSE but said the LE seats slid enough, certainly more than the 2009 we upgraded from. There's aftermarket leather, but honestly I like the cloth seats ok. They still look good in the 2009, so hopefully these are as durable.

a few of the other features of XLE are nice, but not $5K nice... i figure I'm $5k closer to buying a new van, i.e. a new van 1-2 years earlier. power liftgate, 1500W inverter powered from the traction battery, smart key are attractive... everything else is kind of fluff, IMHO. Smart key kind of bothers me, I would have used that literally every time I got in the van. But pushing one button isn't too bad, I can do it without pulling it out of my pocket now, and of course starting is a push of the button.

If there's other great features I'm missing, don't tell me because i've blissfully forgotten about them. I really like the LE (well, besides the self-deploying rear seats and semi-non-removable second row, and a rear hatch that needs a very firm touch to close... but nothing's perfect, is it?)

All the salesmen I talked to were very vague about how the whole allocation/order thing worked. I think they're scared you'll figure out what's going on and find a cheaper dealership to order from. They guy who said there were 8 sienna LEs might have meant in his region. I get the impression that siennas are harder to move from region to region than dealer to dealer. It's too bad because gulf states toyota never did seem to have any AWD models. I didn't get AWD this time around; I get pretty crazy in my FWD minivans and hardly ever get stuck, but I would have paid for that if it was available. I'll put that on the list for 2031 :p
 

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My "kids" (more like young adults now!) didn't think the XSE/XLE seats were worth the upgrade money. they seem pretty happy with the LE. They liked the extra sliding in the XSE but said the LE seats slid enough, certainly more than the 2009 we upgraded from. There's aftermarket leather, but honestly I like the cloth seats ok. They still look good in the 2009, so hopefully these are as durable.

a few of the other features of XLE are nice, but not $5K nice... i figure I'm $5k closer to buying a new van, i.e. a new van 1-2 years earlier. power liftgate, 1500W inverter powered from the traction battery, smart key are attractive... everything else is kind of fluff, IMHO. Smart key kind of bothers me, I would have used that literally every time I got in the van. But pushing one button isn't too bad, I can do it without pulling it out of my pocket now, and of course starting is a push of the button.

If there's other great features I'm missing, don't tell me because i've blissfully forgotten about them. I really like the LE (well, besides the self-deploying rear seats and semi-non-removable second row, and a rear hatch that needs a very firm touch to close... but nothing's perfect, is it?)

All the salesmen I talked to were very vague about how the whole allocation/order thing worked. I think they're scared you'll figure out what's going on and find a cheaper dealership to order from. They guy who said there were 8 sienna LEs might have meant in his region. I get the impression that siennas are harder to move from region to region than dealer to dealer. It's too bad because gulf states toyota never did seem to have any AWD models. I didn't get AWD this time around; I get pretty crazy in my FWD minivans and hardly ever get stuck, but I would have paid for that if it was available. I'll put that on the list for 2031 :p
Excellent comments. Hopefully there will be a reasonable aftermarket 1500w outlet soon.
 

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I was with you on the LE until I found it has
-no smart key for auto door unlock
-no second row captains chairs and limited sliding position
-no option for 1500w inverter

The other stuff is a bonus, except the softex, which I hate in the summer but is passable in winter. I definitely feel where you are coming from and how it seems profit motivated
Yea makes it feel weird having to reach for keys when our other vehicles are smart lock, but other than that everything else works just fine. 2nd row is pretty comfortable even without captains chair. And we dont mind the manual lift gate manual means less problems down the road.
 

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When we bought our Sienna in 2013. I drove the LE and the XLE. Perhaps it was my phone and the app I was using to guage road noise. The XLE came out a tiny bit quieter. It was the 8 passenger (captains chairs with a wedge) for second row...

It has the smart unlock via key sense, push button start, auto headlights, power sliders on both sides and the liftgate. Plus the moon roof! Power drivers and pass seats are a nice touch. The power rear quarters are good as well. The "leather" seats these days are all leather pulp in vinyl, I remember my old car had a cow hide with the irregularities like a faint band mark and another one had a "healed gash scar" that one could make out... Ah well, those were the days when the leather was real and the cars built like tanks, that were smooth riding like hot knife through butter and quiet to boot even over rumbling pavement. The 13 is doing rather well, no issues just had to be shod in shoes twice, tires twice and battery thrice. Did not get a video entertainment system as we do singalongs and such nonsense while looking out the windows and spotting and sharing things etc. Would like a phev van next perhaps in two years or so. Hope its a heavy hybrid with ability to run full electric when needed and wanted! Like the i3sREX or some such!
 

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I'll tell you what I was told, you tell me if he was lying. <...> That's just one example. Lots of other absurd statements. Do salespeople think we are children? Some are dumb enough to not know the customer is on to them...
More info needed before I can say. But... I also really don't care. Yes, sometimes people lie. Yes, salespeople seem to do this more than average.

Mostly though, I generally try to avoid assuming malice when incompetence and ignorance are more often than not sufficient explanation. Regardless, recommend you don't let them live rent free in your head like you seem to be doing now. You're free to assume malice in me too if that floats your boat. Good luck in your search.
 

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I've been happy with our experience, thus far, with Modern Toyota NC. We're paying MSRP and our contact has been upfront about limited availability and pre-sales but there has been no pressure or fear tactics. I did reach out to another local dealer and felt them pushing about "you'd be lucky to get one, you better jump on this, no we can't remove accessory options you don't want, etc" but hey, just go with someone you feel comfortable with, don't get caught up

Font Event Art Movie Photo caption
 

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Why are people surprised that a multi-billion dollar corporation and the franchise dealer representatives that operate to resale its products are all profit motivated? You are not important to any of them, they have millions of customers and a million more new to the brand lined up right behind you.

IMO it's better to go in knowing this is business and leave the emotion out of it. They're out to make a buck, so is Toyota. That's why they lie to you/try to deceive you (not to mention, it work on the majority of the car buying population, who are not and have no desire to be savvy car shoppers) and that's why Toyota puts the package options they do. They want you to step up in trim so you fall more in love with the brand and the available features in these higher trims, making you more likely to be a return customer, while being more profitable for the manufacturer as they can build in additional margin with additional features.
 

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Why are people surprised that a multi-billion dollar corporation and the franchise dealer representatives that operate to resale its products are all profit motivated? You are not important to any of them, they have millions of customers and a million more new to the brand lined up right behind you.

IMO it's better to go in knowing this is business and leave the emotion out of it. They're out to make a buck, so is Toyota. That's why they lie to you/try to deceive you (not to mention, it work on the majority of the car buying population, who are not and have no desire to be savvy car shoppers) and that's why Toyota puts the package options they do. They want you to step up in trim so you fall more in love with the brand and the available features in these higher trims, making you more likely to be a return customer, while being more profitable for the manufacturer as they can build in additional margin with additional features.
Yep - exactly. Why would Toyota specifically allow you to customize the car the way you want it, when you're probably one of 5 people who would customize it that way? That's not profitable for Toyota, nor do they have a reason to bend over backwards to make that happen for one customer. Of course they're profit driven, they're a business! They group things into option packages for simplicity of manufacturing and sales. As long as other customers keep buying the higher trims, that's what they'll keep on doing. Toyota is already a lot better than Honda, where you can't even add options to predetermined trims - at least Toyota allows you to add certain options. I don't really understand why some people fail to understand this or feel entitled to be able to buy exactly what they want for a price they feel they get to dictate, and if they can't get it because they're the only one in the world that wants it that way, then corporations are supposedly screwing them over in the name of profit. You can't get it that way because there simply isn't adequate demand for that configuration.
 

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Yep - exactly. Why would Toyota specifically allow you to customize the car the way you want it, when you're probably one of 5 people who would customize it that way? That's not profitable for Toyota, nor do they have a reason to bend over backwards to make that happen for one customer. Of course they're profit driven, they're a business! They group things into option packages for simplicity of manufacturing and sales. As long as other customers keep buying the higher trims, that's what they'll keep on doing. Toyota is already a lot better than Honda, where you can't even add options to predetermined trims - at least Toyota allows you to add certain options. I don't really understand why some people fail to understand this or feel entitled to be able to buy exactly what they want for a price they feel they get to dictate, and if they can't get it because they're the only one in the world that wants it that way, then corporations are supposedly screwing them over in the name of profit. You can't get it that way because there simply isn't adequate demand for that configuration.
It's nice that you are against entitlements.
 

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That seems like an irrelevant jab and is needlessly political.

Either way, if you want to customize a vehicle, then you'll need to move into higher price points. Go get that Ferrari as customized as you want!

At mass manufactured scales like Toyota and for vehicles intended for general consumption, best you can do is configure it based on preset groupings and predefined bundles that they (the seller) try to optimize before going to market.
 

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2021 Toyota Sienna XSE AWD, SuperWhite
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Wow, you took that personal, not my intent.

Good luck in my search? Im picking up on oct 19th as stated in original post.
He might be one of the salespersons you contacted 🤣 Enjoy your soon acquired Sienna👍🏻
 

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Here is what I think. There are some dealers who only take markups, and then there are dealers who take markups if you want one immediately, but have a waitlist for folks who are willing to wait and buy at MSRP, and finally, there are dealers who just sell at MSRP.

I dont think we should judge them. They are doing their job. Atleast they are being upfront on their pricing, and it is on the shopper to do business with that dealer, or to research and look for a dealer they are comfortable with.
 
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