[neutron]

We're going from Dallas, TX to Reno, NV for vacation next week. With all of the sight-seeing we will be doing I estimated 3600 miles round trip.

How does the Sienna fare in the desert in the southwest? We will be right near Death Valley for part of the trip.

 

[2006SiennaLE]

It should do fine.
Make sure you check all your fluids and inspect all your hoses before the trip. (and tire pressure.)

Have fun!

 

[steelcity]

also check the psi in your spare ,like the previous post the most important thing to check is your tire(4) pressure ,enjoy your trip.

 

[Texastrooper]

I always carry a portable compressor on these trips. But don't worry the Sienna will do fine. What is the difference driving 3600 miles locally or on a long road trip?
We did a 5500 miles trip last year. And this with a trailer behind...

 

[neutron]

Well, the trip was a success, and believe it or not we clocked 3601 for the trip including all running around and sight seeing.

We did have one issue though. We had gotten the oil changed and tires rotated at our dealership 3 days prior to leaving out. On day 3 of our trip where we were driving from Las Vegas to Reno, NV, about halfway between the two cities, or 225 miles or so between both cities, we started having a problem. I had noticed the entire trip thus-far that every time I would slow down or brake I would hear a weird rubbing sound. I thought it was the brake heat shield since we had that issue a few weeks prior. Well, in Tonopah, NV which is the halfway point between Vegas and Reno I had stopped to top off the tank like I had planned. When we pulled out I noticed a loud vibration sound and the steering wheel was acting violently. I pulled over at the rest area just north of town and discovered two of the lugnuts on the left front tire were gone. Not only were the lugs gone the studs were broken off. My bro-in-law is a former mechanic and his first instinct was to check the lugs and he noticed that the rear two tires were done with the air wrench. The front two were just hand tightened. We had been driving on the front two wheels with just barely tightened lugs. It didn't help that the two studs missing were next to each other.

We were in the middle of nowhere, no cell signal, so we decided to tighten all of the remaining lugs and press on, checking every 30-40 miles to make sure they stayed tight. I know we should have stopped and stayed put but we had no choice. The lugs stayed tight for another 190 miles, and after 5 miles after getting on I-80 to head into Reno we heard a sound like we had a flat. I pulled over and the first thing my bro-in-law said was "we are going nowhere now, you just lost two more. You only have 1 left." Talk about a life flashing moment as we had been doing 70MPH when that happened.

We had the van towed to the dealership as it was no longer safe to drive at that point. Roadside assistance only covered 15 miles. I had to pay for the other 15 miles. Fortunately when I called my home dealership the next morning I had spoken with the service manager who first apologized to me, and said by all means they will pay for the repair. They indeed did without me having to raise a fuss about it.

Fortunately we had friends who were also driving this trip on the same route who were about an hour behind us, so we were good to go. There was definitely divine intervention for this whole thing.

The return trip home was uneventful thank goodness. I just need to get the dealership now to reimburse me for the towing charge. If they are open on the 4th I will take it up there as I want to thank the manager in person any way.

The van impressed me though! Worst tank was 19.7MPG and that was the one where we were going up in elevation in New Mexico. Best tank was 27MPG and we got that twice. Median average was 24MPG. Definitely a comfortable van too!

Attached is what the wheel looked like when I lost the other two studs.

 

[oly]

Well, the trip was a success, and believe it or not we clocked 3601 for the trip including all running around and sight seeing.

We did have one issue though. We had gotten the oil changed and tires rotated at our dealership 3 days prior to leaving out. On day 3 of our trip where we were driving from Las Vegas to Reno, NV, about halfway between the two cities, or 225 miles or so between both cities, we started having a problem. I had noticed the entire trip thus-far that every time I would slow down or brake I would hear a weird rubbing sound. I thought it was the brake heat shield since we had that issue a few weeks prior. Well, in Tonopah, NV which is the halfway point between Vegas and Reno I had stopped to top off the tank like I had planned. When we pulled out I noticed a loud vibration sound and the steering wheel was acting violently. I pulled over at the rest area just north of town and discovered two of the lugnuts on the left front tire were gone. Not only were the lugs gone the studs were broken off. My bro-in-law is a former mechanic and his first instinct was to check the lugs and he noticed that the rear two tires were done with the air wrench. The front two were just hand tightened. We had been driving on the front two wheels with just barely tightened lugs. It didn't help that the two studs missing were next to each other.

We were in the middle of nowhere, no cell signal, so we decided to tighten all of the remaining lugs and press on, checking every 30-40 miles to make sure they stayed tight. I know we should have stopped and stayed put but we had no choice. The lugs stayed tight for another 190 miles, and after 5 miles after getting on I-80 to head into Reno we heard a sound like we had a flat. I pulled over and the first thing my bro-in-law said was "we are going nowhere now, you just lost two more. You only have 1 left." Talk about a life flashing moment as we had been doing 70MPH when that happened.

We had the van towed to the dealership as it was no longer safe to drive at that point. Roadside assistance only covered 15 miles. I had to pay for the other 15 miles. Fortunately when I called my home dealership the next morning I had spoken with the service manager who first apologized to me, and said by all means they will pay for the repair. They indeed did without me having to raise a fuss about it.

Fortunately we had friends who were also driving this trip on the same route who were about an hour behind us, so we were good to go. There was definitely divine intervention for this whole thing.

The return trip home was uneventful thank goodness. I just need to get the dealership now to reimburse me for the towing charge. If they are open on the 4th I will take it up there as I want to thank the manager in person any way.

The van impressed me though! Worst tank was 19.7MPG and that was the one where we were going up in elevation in New Mexico. Best tank was 27MPG and we got that twice. Median average was 24MPG. Definitely a comfortable van too!

Attached is what the wheel looked like when I lost the other two studs.

Wow, thanks for sharing! Must have been one heck of an adventure! I noticed you also have a Prius in your sig, what made you decide to go with the Sienna vs the Prius on your road trip? If you were to do it again would you take the Prius?

 

[neutron]

We had thought about taking the Prius but the idea of 4 of us crammed in a smaller vehicle let alone not having enough room for our stuff didn't sound appealing.

That and some moron rear-ended me in the Prius the week before our trip. It was a slow bump into my rear bumper but it was enough to make opening the hatch nearly impossible. It's getting fixed as we speak and the other driver admitted fault with no issue.

 

[brian_bp]

Attached is what the wheel looked like when I lost the other two studs.

Maybe it's just the photo, but that looks like a tapered-seat (conical) nut trying to hold on an original equipment Toyota wheel. If so, the wheel has flat seat areas for the flat washers and shoulders of the correct nuts for use with typical Toyota alloys, and it is absolutely incompatible with these nuts; the tapered-set nut will not stay tight, will not apply enough clamping force without damaging the wheel, and will probably not engage by enough threads. The washer of the correct nut is not visible in the photo, and the edges of the stud holes appear to be damaged by having conical nut ends forced into them.

Anyone who charges for their automotive work and who puts tapered-seat nuts in a wheel with flat seats should be charged with something like criminal negligence, since there don't seem to be any professional associations to regulate the practices of mechanics. Sure that seems harsh, but we're talking life and death here and a child can see that the parts don't fit together properly, especially after seeing the right combinations (this is not so apparent after the stud is broken off, of course).

If that really is the right nut (because it is a wheel with tapered seats instead of the stock wheel, or because the nut really is the right one for a flat seat), and the right nuts were on the vehicle when it came out of the shop, my comments on this obviously would not apply.

If this this the wrong nut - presumably the last of a set of five which were all wrong - why was it used? Why was it even available to the "technician"? A Toyota dealership used the wrong nuts on my Sienna when they swapped out the winter tires (which were on steel wheels using tapered-seat nuts) for the summer tires (which were on the original equipment wheels that require flat-seat nuts); in this case I know why the wrong nuts were available to them (as well as the correct nuts, which were in a bag in the van), but there was still no excuse for using them.

...Fortunately when I called my home dealership the next morning I had spoken with the service manager who first apologized to me, and said by all means they will pay for the repair. They indeed did without me having to raise a fuss about it.

... I want to thank the manager in person any way.

Thank the guy responsible for running a shop in which the most basic safety-related procedures are not followed? Paying for the repair was not a favour; it was a manager doing damage control, and it is only the start. He still owes you an explanation, another apology for allowing the mistake, and maybe a free service next time you need one. I would want to see him in person... to look him in the eye and ask what kind of shop he was running.

I had to explain the situation more than once to the service manager of the dealership who put the wrong nuts on my Sienna, because the blunder was so stupid he didn't initially believe that his tech could have done that. Although the problem was caught before any real damage was done, I was offered (and accepted) a free next service from them. Too bad it was over the phone (I was 1200 kilometres away from the dealership at the time), because I wanted to see his expression when he heard about it.

 

[brian_bp]

If this this the wrong nut - presumably the last of a set of five which were all wrong - why was it used? Why was it even available to the "technician"?

Even in the first photos posted by Neutron, the van has what appear to be 16" Toyota OEM alloy wheels as supplied with some Siennas, including all 2WD LE in Canada. This is a CE. If those wheels came to Neutron with the van, but were not original from the factory, has it been running with the wrong wheel nuts for the entire time because someone swapped original steel wheels for these alloys and failed to change to the corresponding nuts? It could be that only this extended trip produced hub temperature changes which loosened the nuts.

Again, if the van has the proper flat-seat nuts, then I'm just babbling here...

 

[tcp]

the 2wd Canadian CE 8 passenger came with those wheels...at least from 2004-2006.

If this this the wrong nut - presumably the last of a set of five which were all wrong - why was it used? Why was it even available to the "technician"?

Even in the first photos posted by Neutron, the van has what appear to be 16" Toyota OEM alloy wheels as supplied with some Siennas, including all 2WD LE in Canada. This is a CE. If those wheels came to Neutron with the van, but were not original from the factory, has it been running with the wrong wheel nuts for the entire time because someone swapped original steel wheels for these alloys and failed to change to the corresponding nuts? It could be that only this extended trip produced hub temperature changes which loosened the nuts.

Again, if the van has the proper flat-seat nuts, then I'm just babbling here...

 

[brian_bp]

the 2wd Canadian CE 8 passenger came with those wheels...at least from 2004-2006.

Good catch... I didn't realize that. Even the much more restricted Canadian selection is too complex for me to accurate remember.

I'm still concerned that the remaining nut in the photo with the failed studs looks like the wrong type, and speculating that they might all have been wrong for the whole time... now I am even more interested in hearing what Neutron can tell us about the situation.

 

[tcp]

The nut does look wrong. I have a set of those wheels for my summer tires (winters got the steel ones) and they look like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Lexus-Scion-Toyota-chrome-nuts/dp/B003O4JGFE

 

[neutron]

I assumed they were from the factory as these wheels were from the factory.

The van came with these wheels and 4 regular lugs and 1 locking lug on each wheel.

From what I can tell this van had all service done (except for when I bought new tires at Discount Tire right after I bought the van) at the dealership I purchased it from. The dealership I purchased it from is another Toyota dealership, not the one we usually buy our vehicles from and have them serviced at. The home dealership is the one who did the tire rotation and oil change.

If these are the incorrect lugs I need to know pronto and get the right ones on there. My dad said after looking at that picture he was concerned the holes were bored out some from the vibration with the missing studs/lugs.

 

[tcp]

Those rims require the lug nuts shown above. They have a "washer" built in under the head and a thick shank that actually goes into the hole in the rim for quite a distance. If you had acorn style nuts holding the rim in place, they would have just caught the last bit of threads and only held at the outer edge of the rim hole. the shear forces way out there on the stud would easily break them, as you had happen. This is an issue from the dealer.

I assumed they were from the factory as these wheels were from the factory.

The van came with these wheels and 4 regular lugs and 1 locking lug on each wheel.

From what I can tell this van had all service done (except for when I bought new tires at Discount Tire right after I bought the van) at the dealership I purchased it from. The dealership I purchased it from is another Toyota dealership, not the one we usually buy our vehicles from and have them serviced at. The home dealership is the one who did the tire rotation and oil change.

If these are the incorrect lugs I need to know pronto and get the right ones on there. My dad said after looking at that picture he was concerned the holes were bored out some from the vibration with the missing studs/lugs.

 

[brian_bp]

tcp's explanation is excellent as usual.

I assumed they were from the factory as these wheels were from the factory.

That's a perfectly reasonable assumption for a buyer, and there would be no reason for the buyer to recognize the nuts as possibly the wrong type... or even to know that there are two types for a Toyota.

The van came with these wheels and 4 regular lugs and 1 locking lug on each wheel.

I believe that Siennas ship from the factory with all regular nuts, and one at each wheel is replaced with a security ("locking") nut by the original selling dealer in pre-sale prep, so this combination is normal. Just like the regular nuts, the security nuts must be the correct type (tapered seat for steel wheels, or flat seat or "mag" style for Toyota alloys).

From what I can tell this van had all service done (except for when I bought new tires at Discount Tire right after I bought the van) at the dealership I purchased it from. The dealership I purchased it from is another Toyota dealership, not the one we usually buy our vehicles from and have them serviced at. The home dealership is the one who did the tire rotation and oil change.

Anyone working on the vehicle and charging for it, but especially a tire store or Toyota dealer, should immediately recognize the wrong nuts (if these are indeed the wrong nuts) as soon as they remove any of them, which of course they had to do for either a tire installation or a tire rotation... or even a reasonable inspection before selling the vehicle.

If these are the incorrect lugs I need to know pronto and get the right ones on there.

Absolutely!
If it were my vehicle, I would take one nut off (or one off each wheel) and compare it to the one in tcp's link, or the drawings in Wheel locks for 2011 Sienna (those Toyota alloy wheels need the "Mag Seat" style, not the "Acorn Seat" or "Ball Seat") to see what I really had.

My dad said after looking at that picture he was concerned the holes were bored out some from the vibration with the missing studs/lugs.

He may be just seeing the normal space that the long straight shank of the correct nuts fits into, as tcp explained. On the other hand, if the hole is not straight but instead has a flared-out opening, that's damage from the wrong nuts.