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So traveling in Model Y which in theory can accommodate 7 people (yeah right, more like 4 adults and 2 kids) it'll cost about $3.1 per 36 miles traveled ($0.28c/kWh) - charging at superchargers. While Sienna 2021 can do 36 miles on highway (in theory if driven at 70mph) for 1 gal of regular fuel - which costs on average about $2.9 currently across USA.
Owner of both a Tesla Model 3 & a 2021 Sienna here. Just want to double check your math. Seattle, WA to Detroit, MI is 2367 miles.
  • Model Y with 1500lbs of cargo would cost you around $120: A Better Routeplanner
  • 2021 Sienna assuming 33mpg highway when loaded with 7 people and $2.90/gal would cost $208

The charge vs fuel time would be the killer. 21 stops totalling 5h 41m of charging for the Tesla vs 5 stops totaling 1h 15m for the Toyota. Now the Tesla would cut out 3 of those stops assuming you did the drive in 4 days and you'd save a few $ on the Tesla assuming you did an overnight charge at your hotel which is generally free.

I'm not going to argue that the Sienna is not a better road trip vehicle, hence why we have one AND a Tesla for all our around town driving. That said, even at supercharger prices gas has to be under $1.82 / gallon and the Sienna would actually need to get 36mpg fully loaded with people to be less expensive per mile than a Tesla using Superchargers.
 

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Test drove a 2021 Sienna XLE last week. It did not feel that underpowered, but then really did not test it on any significant freeway. But i was surprised at how smooth the ride was.
 

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Owner of both a Tesla Model 3 & a 2021 Sienna here. Just want to double check your math. Seattle, WA to Detroit, MI is 2367 miles.
  • Model Y with 1500lbs of cargo would cost you around $120: A Better Routeplanner
  • 2021 Sienna assuming 33mpg highway when loaded with 7 people and $2.90/gal would cost $208

The charge vs fuel time would be the killer. 21 stops totalling 5h 41m of charging for the Tesla vs 5 stops totaling 1h 15m for the Toyota. Now the Tesla would cut out 3 of those stops assuming you did the drive in 4 days and you'd save a few $ on the Tesla assuming you did an overnight charge at your hotel which is generally free.

I'm not going to argue that the Sienna is not a better road trip vehicle, hence why we have one AND a Tesla for all our around town driving. That said, even at supercharger prices gas has to be under $1.82 / gallon and the Sienna would actually need to get 36mpg fully loaded with people to be less expensive per mile than a Tesla using Superchargers.
Thanks for sharing the analysis and education, I'm a bit better versed on the Tesla ecosystem now.
 

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Owner of both a Tesla Model 3 & a 2021 Sienna here. Just want to double check your math. Seattle, WA to Detroit, MI is 2367 miles.
  • Model Y with 1500lbs of cargo would cost you around $120: A Better Routeplanner
  • 2021 Sienna assuming 33mpg highway when loaded with 7 people and $2.90/gal would cost $208

The charge vs fuel time would be the killer. 21 stops totalling 5h 41m of charging for the Tesla vs 5 stops totaling 1h 15m for the Toyota. Now the Tesla would cut out 3 of those stops assuming you did the drive in 4 days and you'd save a few $ on the Tesla assuming you did an overnight charge at your hotel which is generally free.

I'm not going to argue that the Sienna is not a better road trip vehicle, hence why we have one AND a Tesla for all our around town driving. That said, even at supercharger prices gas has to be under $1.82 / gallon and the Sienna would actually need to get 36mpg fully loaded with people to be less expensive per mile than a Tesla using Superchargers.
I think it depends on weather conditions. Somewhere in Canada driving in slush in -10 would be a different story and not at all $120 you calculated with ''a better routeplanner''. In addition once again model y is nowhere near as accommodating as Sienna. I think you need to compare Model X for a better apples to apples comparison and that one will consume more kWh per mile. If you can redo the math and account for colder temp loss, we would see a completely different story.
 

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You can just edit the settings in the route planner to see this info: A Better Routeplanner
2020 Model X, 0F outside temp, slushy roads, 1200lbs cargo (I dropped it from 1500 since a Sienna only has 1200 of capacity) works out to $189, 23 stops, and 9h 40m of charging.

That is till slightly less expensive than a Sienna getting 33mpg but there is no way you're getting 33mpg with 7 people, winter gas and slushy roads. Looking at the MPG thread people are getting closer to 30mpg in those conditions so you're up to $228.81 for the Sienna.

Again, not arguing that a Sienna isn't a better car for a road trip. Charge time vs fuel time is still an issue and a minivan is way more comfortable. The reality is though pure EV drive trains are WAY more efficient per mile than an ICE will ever be. Just look at the energy use, a gallon of gas contains 38.6KWh of energy and the Sienna goes 30mi on that for 1286W/mi. In the route I linked here with terrible weather the X is consuming 484W/mi. We are still a ways away from comparable cross-country road trips in terms of speed and comfort in pure EVs. For efficiency and $/mi EVs are already way ahead.
 

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You can just edit the settings in the route planner to see this info: A Better Routeplanner
2020 Model X, 0F outside temp, slushy roads, 1200lbs cargo (I dropped it from 1500 since a Sienna only has 1200 of capacity) works out to $189, 23 stops, and 9h 40m of charging.

That is till slightly less expensive than a Sienna getting 33mpg but there is no way you're getting 33mpg with 7 people, winter gas and slushy roads. Looking at the MPG thread people are getting closer to 30mpg in those conditions so you're up to $228.81 for the Sienna.

Again, not arguing that a Sienna isn't a better car for a road trip. Charge time vs fuel time is still an issue and a minivan is way more comfortable. The reality is though pure EV drive trains are WAY more efficient per mile than an ICE will ever be. Just look at the energy use, a gallon of gas contains 38.6KWh of energy and the Sienna goes 30mi on that for 1286W/mi. In the route I linked here with terrible weather the X is consuming 484W/mi. We are still a ways away from comparable cross-country road trips in terms of speed and comfort in pure EVs. For efficiency and $/mi EVs are already way ahead.
I's all in price of electricity charging. How much does superchargers cost? is it about 28 cents per kWh? So according to your data (484W/mi or let's assume it's roughly 0.5kWh per mile to make calculations easy) Model X needs roughly 14 cents to drive 1 mile if charging at superchargers (assuming 1kWh costs 0.28sents, correct me if I'm wrong, I'm just going by Google price for Tesla superchargers). To drive 33 miles Model X will require 14 cents x 33 miles = $4.62 while Sienna can drive same 33 miles for price of 1 Gal of regular fuel, which is about $2.9 on average in US. So either I'm missing something in my calculations or your calculations are wrong. Help me out here.


Update: ok, I think I see where error is coming from. I'm assuming 1kWh costs 28 cents at supercharger, while you mentioned different number.
''On average it may cost about 28 cents per kWh to use a Supercharger. How far a Tesla car can travel on a kWh of charge varies by model. When using a home charger, the cost is based on the meter rate for each area.Jan 22, 2021''
 

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The $189 price is using super chargers on that route, the planning tool knows how much each supercharger stop costs. The cost depends on the state and can be seen here: Tesla Supercharger Rate Calculator – Teslanomics At the high end it is $0.26 / KWh in CA.

For around town and short trip driving, what we usually do, the cost is much less, we pay $.14/KWh at home to charge, so in our model 3 LR it costs around $0.052 per mile (94% charger efficiency) vs the Sienna at 36MPG and $2.90/gal costs around $0.081 per mile.
 

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The $189 price is using super chargers on that route, the planning tool knows how much each supercharger stop costs. The cost depends on the state and can be seen here: Tesla Supercharger Rate Calculator – Teslanomics At the high end it is $0.26 / KWh in CA.

For around town and short trip driving, what we usually do, the cost is much less, we pay $.14/KWh at home to charge, so in our model 3 LR it costs around $0.052 per mile (94% charger efficiency) vs the Sienna at 36MPG and $2.90/gal costs around $0.081 per mile.
Yes, I agree. But if we use average .26 cents per kWh and use 484W/mi for Model X, isn't math telling us that it'll be about 13 cents per mile x 33 miles = $4.29? And then again Sienna will do same 33 miles on 1 Gal which costs $2.9? So Sienna is about 33% more cost efficient no?
 

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But if we use average .26 cents per kWh
$.26/kwh is the MAX cost and in CA only. The low end is $.15/kwh at a super charger in the great planes states. The average SC price for the Seattle to Detroit route is $0.163/KWh.

If I plan a trip from Canada to Mexico along the west coast where $/KWh is the most expensive the comparison isn't as great but then again gas in CA is currently $3.889 not $2.90 per gallon. So that works out to $0.241/KWh or $0.0938/mi for an X or $0.11515/mi for a 33mpg Sienna paying $3.80/gal in gas

 

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So you concede that it is under-powered? Keeping up with other cars isn't a luxury, its a safety feature.
It keeps up just fine with other cars. There are plenty of vehicles on the road that are slower than the sienna. This is really not a valid argument at all. Whether or not it's underpowered for towing or other non-standard uses may be a different story but in reality and everyday driving conditions it is no slower than the other minivans out there nor any of its predecessors. It sure sounds and "feels" slow because of the goddamn droning engine/e-cvt, but it's not materially any slower than any of its competitors in real world conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter #94
Thanks for all the replies. I wanted to follow up with my original question/post. After researching and reviewing all these great comments, we went in for several test drives and purchased an XLE, FWD about 2 weeks ago. I've driven a few hundred city and highway miles and am completely satisfied with the power and acceleration. I continually find myself at speed much sooner than I anticipated; having to quickly slow down as I'm 10 over the speed limit. This van has plenty of power to get up to speed and effortlessly coasts at highway speeds in ECO/Electric Motors alone. Acceleration isn't something I've really put to the test as our drive style is meant to maximize MPGs. At this time I don't feel like the van is limited in it's acceleration, but the way I'm driving certainly is. I simply have no need to have quick acceleration with a vehicle filled with my young family. I'm sure it's not as quick as it's 290 hp counterparts, but I'm not noticing a deficit.

I'm currently averaging 36.5 mpg. Will calculate when I refill. You buy this van first and foremost because it's fuel economy is unmatched. The power is deceivingly good. Acceleration is logically going to be diminished compared to other vans with 15-20 less mpg. That's a very easy trade-off for me to make and I suspect most will agree.

I appreciate all the feedback and thoughts. If Toyota's reliability continues with this 2021 Sienna, I will be extremely satisfied with my decision.
 

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FYI just did a 400mi road trip. 4 people, 500lbs+ of cargo inside and a roof box loaded with another 150lbs on a AWD Platinum. Never once felt like we were underpowered. Zero issues on ramps, easily overtaking people at 65mph+ speeds on the freeway. No problem climbing over a pass. The engine does get loud when you really need power but that is just an artifact of the eCVT. With all this we went from Seattle down to coastal Oregon and averaged around 37mpg.
 

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From this forum, I gained valuable information on the 2021 Sienna performance. As a result, I purchased one yesterday and I drove about 110 miles home. The car was very smooth on the highway and minimal wind and road noise. Actually, it is more comfortable than a RX350 I drove last year. I think this is mainly due to the outward visibility and spacious interior. For me, the power was more than adequate for passing and cruising. I am extremely happy with my purchase. Thanks to all who posted their comments.
 

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If you think the Sienna is underpowered and unsuitable for your needs and driving situation, please don't buy it. Move on. There are plenty of other vehicles out there that are more powerful and faster.

If someone says it's fast enough and meets their needs, respect that.

I drive Subaru vehicles. Few things on the road are substantially slower. I'm good with that. Would you like to fight with me?

This is becoming like a game of Whack-A-Mole. We quell a cat fight on one thread, and it pops up on another.
 
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