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It goes without saying that a matching set of tires in good condition is a prerequisite for having a car.

No, it doesn't. Buying two at a time and rotating the good tires has been standard practice for as long as there have been cars. It still is. It spreads out the financial bite, which is important for a lot of us. It also means that you always have two good tires with at least half tread, which isn't the case if you always buy 4 at a time.

If you care to look it up, you can find there is an ongoing debate about whether the good tires go on the front or back. (I just looked it up a few weeks ago. Authorities differ.)

With 2WD or even 4WD, it isn't critical to have the tires matched. With modern AWD, it is.
 

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No, it doesn't. Buying two at a time and rotating the good tires has been standard practice for as long as there have been cars. It still is. It spreads out the financial bite, which is important for a lot of us. It also means that you always have two good tires with at least half tread, which isn't the case if you always buy 4 at a time.
For myself and everyone I know, replacing tires means a whole set. Your reality is no more valid than mine, and if they differ, it doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.

... it isn't critical to have the tires matched.
Critical or not, the majority of people I know buy whole sets and making them match is a better idea than having a smorgasbord of tread heights and designs.
 

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Well, perhaps you could take a moment to research the matter. Your experiencing is not the rule. For those who can afford it, replaceng 4 at a time is certainly the best approach, but not everybody does it that way. To say that "it goes wihtout saying" is simply false.
 

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This is what I understand from a Honda tech friend of mine . Most of these, if not all , Early Honda Ody trannies were manufactured in Brazil , not that it matters where , but the clutch material disintegrated quite easily leading to crud jamming up the various orifices in the transmission. This led to a ton of shifting issues. On the third transmission , knowing this , I installed a magnefine filter as well as a cooler. When I sold the van , shortly after the install of the third, I informed the buyer , an auto tech for the county , of the issues and for the price I sold the van he was willing to take a chance knowing that had the resources to deal with it should it need fixing again. An OBD2 scanner was a must if you were a DIY person and owned this van. There were other issues as well. EGR problems and most annoying , rattling front calipers to name a few. I am still amazed to see quite a few of this generation running around in Miami.
I must say though that Honda did well for me as I did not pay for any of the transmission replacements.
 

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It also requires more care with your tires. You have to keep all 4 in the same condion. That means when one wears out, you buy all 4. OTherwise you'll have your AWD working overtime all the time and it won't last.
A couple of options to help soften the blow of dealing with an unrepairable tire on AWD:

1 - The option we chose to go with is to have a full-size spare with an OE rim, and do a 5-tire rotation. If a tire ever has unrepairable damage, we just switch back to a 4-tire rotation. Go over this option with your tire shop so you know what to expect with the more frequent rotation schedule and TPMS reprogramming.

2 - Some places (such as Tire Rack) offer tire shaving. They'll take a brand new tire and shave the tread down to a height that matches your existing tires. If your existing tires are at 6/32" or less of tread, I'd suggest replacing all 4 instead, and if they have 10/32" or more of tread, a brand new tire is fine as a replacement. But between 6 and 10 32nds, tire shaving may be a viable option.

- G
 

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Your experiencing is not the rule. To say that "it goes wihtout saying" is simply false.
Your opinionating for others is not only not a rule, it's deceptive and misleading. You started out by suggesting that everyone does it your way and I simply interjected that not everyone does what you think they do. My experience wasn't even presented as a rule, but your previous post surely did. I simply brought it to your attention that the best way is not only an option, but is also the preferred method of many.
To paraphrase my posts the way you did is something akin to a strawman.

Four identical tires (with matching spare) is best and anything else is a compromise, with some options being better than others.
 

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Your opinionating for others is not only not a rule, it's deceptive and misleading. You started out by suggesting that everyone does it your way
No, I did not. I simply pointed out that AWD has to be handled different than 2WD or 4WD, which any tire shop or even dealer will tell you is true. That not all people are aware of this should be obvious:


Therefore it is important to point this out in any discussion of the advantages and disadvantages of AWD.

and I simply interjected that not everyone does what you think they do.
No, you stated that replacing all 4 at the same time "goes without saying", which is nonsense. You then went on to present your experience, and that of everyone you know, as the norm, to defend your original statement.

The original statements are there for anyone to read.
 

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Buying two at a time and rotating the good tires has been standard practice for as long as there have been cars. It still is.
For myself and everyone I know, replacing tires means a whole set. Your reality is no more valid than mine, and if they differ, it doesn't mean the other doesn't exist.

Critical or not, the majority of people I know buy whole sets and making them match is a better idea than having a smorgasbord of tread heights and designs.
The original statements are there for anyone to read.
Well here they are again, with you making the universal statement that buying two at a time is and always has been the standard practice.

My initial response to you shows plainly that I did not present my case as a universal statement but rather to point out that while most of your information was correct, it shouldn't be followed as an absolute.
 

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No, you stated that replacing all 4 at the same time "goes without saying", which is nonsense. You then went on to present your experience, and that of everyone you know, as the norm, to defend your original statement.

The original statements are there for anyone to read.
It goes without saying that a matching set of tires in good condition is a prerequisite for having a car.
Oh, look at that. Your paraphrasing of my post doesn't even come close to matching what I'd posted. When you've got to change someone elses words to win an argument, your motive becomes suspect.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
Please, yes, peace! You are both correct. I have always replaced all 4 tires at once. That is because they have always worn out at about the same time. One flat I got 4,000 miles after I replaced all 4 tires, so replacing that one tire wasn't a big deal since the other 3 still had 90%+ of the tread (on a Camry). Another time I got a flat 2 weeks after I got 4 new tires, so replacing the one tire wasn't a problem since the other 3 tires were basically brand new. However, I see no problem replacing 2 at a time if I get a flat and still have 2 mid-life tires that don't need to be replaced yet, although I understand that it is less ideal this way.

*****Anyway, thank you again for all the help to everyone who responded. I found an original owner 2010 Honda Odyssey EX with 87,000 miles, mostly dealer serviced. Body is in OK shape, mechanically seems pretty solid. Mostly highway miles, was a weekend/vacation car and very rarely used for commuting according to the previous owner. Timing belt has not been replaced yet so it'll need it soon, but I'll probably wait another 20K miles. After some negotiation we agreed on $5,100. I should be picking it up next weekend. I couldn't find an equivalent Sienna for a similar price, so Odyssey it will be. Perhaps I'll get the Sienna next time around, but I hope the Odyssey will last me a long time!
 

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The Sienna I won a 2006 @255K miles and I own a Honda Accord with over 300K miles on it . I like both my Honda and my Toyota - I love driving my Sienna , would drive it anywhere I can .. I had bought it used and it had been up kept for the most part (routine maintenance) - I have done some maintenance on it to bring it back up to what I call an every day runner - yes I had the timing belt and water pump replaced - get all your maintenance in the difficult spots done at once if you do that.

The design of the Toyota is much better than those hearse looking Odysseys (not sure if 2007-2010 Odysseys look like that).
Honda has had many issues with the Tranny's in the V6 model and personally any vehicle of minivan size - should have a V6.

My Sienna has about 255K on it. I get about 20 MPG combined (mostly City driving) and somewhere around 24MPG on the Highway.
The features that you will find in a Sienna interior creature comforts will always outdo the Honda, this is typical of all Honda's though.
Usually though a Honda Engine - the best out there. Toyota is not far behind - but I am thinking Honda has the lead on the Engine side. I can't complain about my Toyota though - I love it.
 

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Buying two at a time and rotating the good tires has been standard practice for as long as there have been cars. .... It spreads out the financial bite, which is important for a lot of us. It also means that you always have two good tires with at least half tread, which isn't the case if you always buy 4 at a time.
With 2WD or even 4WD, it isn't critical to have the tires matched. With modern AWD, it is.
In my 2 wheel FW drive vehicles - I never rotate tires. My rear tires will last over 100K, I generally buy 2 Fronts (@70Kish) then next purchase (@130Kish) 2 Fronts + 2 Rears, Next purchase @200Kish 2 fronts. The difference for me is the price of 4 Tires (not too mention the environment here if you are into that).
All my Cars have run fine this way for a million and a quarter miles combined.
I do not see the advantage of rotating tires on a FWD vehicle. Even wear (this means little to no tread on all 4 tires at some point - and less tread - reduced traction - for half of their lives). I have good tread on at least 2 tires almost all the time.

I know some people want "even wear" - I like tread on the tire and in my scenario at least 2 will have plenty - even when I replace the rears - sure they have wear and could go longer - I just don't as the years make a difference - this middle set change is usually a bit sooner than what they can go but at this point I don't need the tread indicator on the rears to be reached in order for me to replace them.

I spread out the cost over quite some time - in an AWD forget it .
Not all AWD spread the load equally either - so you might not have the same kind of wear that you think - a more frequent rotation would be necessary.

The awd option is a choice - count the costs of that option and is it really worth it - fuel, tires, mechanics and added noise to name a few.. but to each their own.
 

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Discussion Starter #39
Okay, so, the seller of "my" Odyssey emailed me a few days ago. He had family friends over during the weekend and mentioned that he was selling the van to me. One of the family friends wanted it and naturally, being close family friends, he sold the van to them instead :(

Anyway, this means I am back on the search for a Sienna or Odyssey:

I have a new question. I am aware of the rubber oil VVT-i lines needing replacement on 2007-2008 models. I know that owners were eligible for a free replacement of an updated rubber oil line with a new rubber composition. I am seeing threads from Fibber2 and other members saying that they are not aware of the updated rubber material causing any issues, but these threads are from a few years ago. I am wondering if any new reports have come out in recent years that the updated rubber is still not good and changing to all-metal lines are a must. If so, I will avoid 2007-2008 models - I looked at the procedure to swap the metal lines and it's a bigger job than I want to tackle.

I am also aware that 2007 models had the tow package and an oil cooler line that also needs to be replaced. The procedure for this seems much easier than the VVT-i line and I would feel comfortable changing this one myself to an all-metal if I were to buy a 2007 model. Am I correct that this is not a difficult job?

Anyone have information to share about the updated rubber VVT-i line bursting in recent years and/or the ease of changing out the oil cooler line for 2007 models??
 

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I've heard that the updated rubber VVT-i line is a big improvement but not a 100% solution. Before we got our '08, the previous owner was trying to have the metal line installed on it, but their dealership said it wouldn't fit. But now that I've had a chance to look at things more closely, I'm pretty sure that it would fit - but of course there's some work in dealing with the power steering pump. Our '08 now has an engine out of a 2012 RAV4, so it now has the all-metal line. Oddly, the all-metal line is cheaper; my guess is that the rubber line was used to simplify something in the assembly process.

For the oil cooler situation, that's not a hard job. Be careful working with the studs - when installing a stud, don't torque it much -- I think the service manual has guidance on this; I cracked a flange on the upper oil pan on mine when I was swapping engines and had to fix it using a tee nut.

Also be aware of the VVT-i actuator issue if you get an '07 or '08. Try cranking the van after it has been sitting overnight, and listen for the characteristic clatter. There are some youtube videos that give a good idea of this particular noise; the 2GR-FE tends to rattle a bit anyhow (piston slap), and you can get some noise as the lifters pressurize, but the VVT-i actuator noise is a specific noise and indicates a very expensive repair is coming. If it were me, I'd want to get a van that was past the design change for the VVT-i actuators, just to eliminate that expensive issue altogether.

- G
 
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