[judymac911]

I looked at the new van and I won't be buying it either! The second row seats not being removable, the width access on the side door is much smaller not including the seats that get in your way now. I do flea marketing and you will just be able to put a 18 gal tote in the side door side ways (between the new design handrail and the door) but not at all with the seats not being removable! The cargo area is smaller and the rear height above the 3rd row is also lower. Many of people use these vehicles for Flea Markets, traveling with their dogs, hauling big box store supplies or camping on the weekends. they tried to make it more of an SUV than a Mini Van! There are plenty of SUV's in the market, why would they do this?? The front console is worthless because you can not access the storage area underneath if you are in the seat. Also, with it being so elevated it is not very fat friendly! You are in a cockpit that doesn't move. Oh yeah.. what ever happened to access to the rear if you need to get to the kids for any reason? No one is climbing that raised console especially the driver with the steering wheel in your way. This was a major selling feature when they first started making minivans. Who needs reclining seats???? Surely not the children that are in car seats till what age?? Their little legs don't even reach! The Hybrid engine is so quiet you can't even hear it running when you are idling. I'm so frustrated because I have been waiting for the re-design for a few years. Now I am looking into something else. The Pacifica seats all fold into the floor. The Kia Sedona has a nice wide side door and the cargo is pretty decent. Can't believe I am even looking at something besides a Toyota but until they change a LOT of things I'm done!

 

[Sam K]

If you're considering the Kia Sedona then I'd wait for the redesigned model in 2022 which will probably be called the Carnival. It's already been released in Asia.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

 

[HughJufallus]

I agree with everything you except the part about the hybrid engine. ... did you expect a loud hybrid engine? Lol

 

[judymac911]

I agree with everything you except the part about the hybrid engine. ... did you expect a loud hybrid engine? Lol

LOL... never experienced one before! They were always too much money!

 

[TheTruthHurts]

I looked at the new van and I won't be buying it either! The second row seats not being removable, the width access on the side door is much smaller not including the seats that get in your way now. I do flea marketing and you will just be able to put a 18 gal tote in the side door side ways (between the new design handrail and the door) but not at all with the seats not being removable! The cargo area is smaller and the rear height above the 3rd row is also lower. Many of people use these vehicles for Flea Markets, traveling with their dogs, hauling big box store supplies or camping on the weekends. they tried to make it more of an SUV than a Mini Van! There are plenty of SUV's in the market, why would they do this?? The front console is worthless because you can not access the storage area underneath if you are in the seat. Also, with it being so elevated it is not very fat friendly! You are in a cockpit that doesn't move. Oh yeah.. what ever happened to access to the rear if you need to get to the kids for any reason? No one is climbing that raised console especially the driver with the steering wheel in your way. This was a major selling feature when they first started making minivans. Who needs reclining seats???? Surely not the children that are in car seats till what age?? Their little legs don't even reach! The Hybrid engine is so quiet you can't even hear it running when you are idling. I'm so frustrated because I have been waiting for the re-design for a few years. Now I am looking into something else. The Pacifica seats all fold into the floor. The Kia Sedona has a nice wide side door and the cargo is pretty decent. Can't believe I am even looking at something besides a Toyota but until they change a LOT of things I'm done!

I could never understand the ridiculous stereotype of a minivan not being cool. Who cares what other people think. You are absolutely correct, they took away much of the utility of the Sienna minivan. Probably still the best overall minivan option for most people.

 

[toys4us]

Here is a guy who did remove the 2nd row of seats in a 4th Gen

 

[jvinhj240]

Watching the video it seem like did that on purpose second-row seat not removable because it has an airbag just like in the front. You will have an airbag light on if it's removed. Of course, it can remove but not like 2 clicks and you can take the seat out of the car.

 

[kjburns]

Maybe it's not for you, but my wife insisted on it. The things you see as shortcomings are features in our book. We don't have kids at home, but we do travel with her in the back with our dogs and cat. She really wanted those second row seats with the recliner and foot rest. We've had a couple of Pacificas and thought about a new one, but "she who must be obeyed" preferred the Sienna, hands down. I used to put a foam mattress in the back of the Pacifica where she'd sleep on our road trips. In the Sienna, she has better accommodations.

 

[TheTruthHurts]

Maybe it's not for you, but my wife insisted on it. The things you see as shortcomings are features in our book. We don't have kids at home, but we do travel with her in the back with our dogs and cat. She really wanted those second row seats with the recliner and foot rest. We've had a couple of Pacificas and thought about a new one, but "she who must be obeyed" preferred the Sienna, hands down. I used to put a foam mattress in the back of the Pacifica where she'd sleep on our road trips. In the Sienna, she has better accommodations.

Some would say Sleeping on a mattress is much better than a reclined seat.

 

[floridanative]

Some would say Sleeping on a mattress is much better than a reclined seat.

Unless the vehicle is in motion (safety-wise).

-Mike

 

[TheTruthHurts]

Unless the vehicle is in motion (safety-wise).

-Mike

That's true

 

[texas911]

Some of Toyota's design decision is suspect. Like having the recline strap for the third row in the middle of the seat? One, it'll rub on the person sitting and two, its hard to reach it while properly seated, usually one adjusts the recline while in a seated position so that you feel when its comfortable for you. And speaking of, I've seen a lot of pictures on the Sienna's seats and is it me or are they really low in workmanship? The fit and stitching seem really subpar, making it look aftermarket instead of OEM.

 

[VA Sienna]

I am firmly on the fence right now. Currently have a 2011 XLE with 145K. Some random thoughts:

• I'm feeling the lure of the Ody like never before, but I can't bring myself to test drive one. I simply do not trust their reliability; From what I see on the internet, I think their quality is a bit of a myth.
• Same with Chrysler; I just don't trust the product.
• There's a lot to be said for the Kia Sedonas, but as far as I can tell, they don't have that huge open space between the passenger and driver like the Sienna does. Total show-stopper. That's the back-pack/snack/purse space.
• Haven't test driven 2021 Sienna yet. I love the looks and the gas mileage, but I suspect I will dislike the softex material, the price, and the driving performance. We will see.
• In ten years I have never felt the need to remove our 2nd row seats. So many people are obsessed with this feature; maybe I don't do enough home improvement projects.
• I think the 2011 has been the perfect vehicle. That's why I think we will wind up with a gently used 2019 or 2020, but who knows.
• The 2022 Kia definitely looks like it's going to shake up the minivan market.

 

[tdman]

You can blame these guys for the design of the new van. I may wait until summer or fall to see if they fix any problem from the first build. Never own a hybrid before so not sure about the battery after 10 years as this will be our long term van.

 

[texas911]

I am firmly on the fence right now. Currently have a 2011 XLE with 145K. Some random thoughts:

• I'm feeling the lure of the Ody like never before, but I can't bring myself to test drive one. I simply do not trust their reliability; From what I see on the internet, I think their quality is a bit of a myth.
• Same with Chrysler; I just don't trust the product.

Well at least with the Chrysler, you can get a screaming deal on it, which soften's the perception. Plus if you get the Pacifica hybrid, you are eligible for a $7500 tax credit, further making it a bargain.

 

[starlightmica]

I am firmly on the fence right now. Currently have a 2011 XLE with 145K. Some random thoughts:

• I'm feeling the lure of the Ody like never before, but I can't bring myself to test drive one. I simply do not trust their reliability; From what I see on the internet, I think their quality is a bit of a myth.
• Same with Chrysler; I just don't trust the product.
• There's a lot to be said for the Kia Sedonas, but as far as I can tell, they don't have that huge open space between the passenger and driver like the Sienna does. Total show-stopper. That's the back-pack/snack/purse space.
• Haven't test driven 2021 Sienna yet. I love the looks and the gas mileage, but I suspect I will dislike the softex material, the price, and the driving performance. We will see.
• In ten years I have never felt the need to remove our 2nd row seats. So many people are obsessed with this feature; maybe I don't do enough home improvement projects.
• I think the 2011 has been the perfect vehicle. That's why I think we will wind up with a gently used 2019 or 2020, but who knows.
• The 2022 Kia definitely looks like it's going to shake up the minivan market.

Nope, no open space: 4th gen Carnival dash, via Kia (site in Korean). Kia Australia and New Zealand have product pages up. There are a bunch of reviews on YouTube.

The one novel feature that stood out after sifting through the reviews: the center 8th seat comes off its rails and is reversible. However, that the reversible seat has only been homologated for use in the forward-facing position. As such, Kia says it “discourages the use of a child restraint in the seat whilst that seat is rearward-facing.” Wait, what?

My aged 2nd gen LE is likely going to be replaced by a 4th gen LE someday, so I didn't pay much attention to some of the fancy optional features, such as the digital dashboard, reclining seats with ottomans, dual pane sunroof, Bose stereo.

From what I can tell, it's a refined V6 minivan, but without crash-tested reversible 2nd row seating, no game changing features.

 

[VA Sienna]

Well at least with the Chrysler, you can get a screaming deal on it, which soften's the perception. Plus if you get the Pacifica hybrid, you are eligible for a $7500 tax credit, further making it a bargain.

Interesting. I wish the government would pay me lots of money to buy the vehicle I really want instead of a Chrysler. They can call it the "2021 Federal Omnibus Relief and Stimulus Act For Middle-Class Men Whose Wives Really Want a New Sienna."

Regarding screaming deals, I have to admit, sometimes I ask myself, "How bad can a used Dodge Caravan really be?"

 

[VA Sienna]

Nope, no open space: 4th gen Carnival dash, via Kia (site in Korean). Kia Australia and New Zealand have product pages up. There are a bunch of reviews on YouTube.

The one novel feature that stood out after sifting through the reviews: the center 8th seat comes off its rails and is reversible. However, that the reversible seat has only been homologated for use in the forward-facing position. As such, Kia says it “discourages the use of a child restraint in the seat whilst that seat is rearward-facing.” Wait, what?

My aged 2nd gen LE is likely going to be replaced by a 4th gen LE someday, so I didn't pay much attention to some of the fancy optional features, such as the digital dashboard, reclining seats with ottomans, dual pane sunroof, Bose stereo.

From what I can tell, it's a refined V6 minivan, but without crash-tested reversible 2nd row seating, no game changing features.

Thank you. I'm learning plenty of new things about the current minivan market, and I'm also learning what "homologated" means.

 

[texas911]

Interesting. I wish the government would pay me lots of money to buy the vehicle I really want instead of a Chrysler. They can call it the "2021 Federal Omnibus Relief and Stimulus Act For Middle-Class Men Whose Wives Really Want a New Sienna."

The government isn't paying you anything, you just get to keep more of your hard earned money instead of giving it to the government. That's why its called a credit. Keeping more of your money, how novel.

 

[rebel7254]

In ten years I have never felt the need to remove our 2nd row seats. So many people are obsessed with this feature; maybe I don't do enough home improvement projects.

It’s a very vocal but small minority. Toyota did market research and determined the vast majority of owners are just like you, so that’s why they ditched the removable seats in exchange for more safety for rear passengers.