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They will be removable. But how much work to get it done? Maybe just few bolts and unplug a wiring harness? We'll see...
Then it's not "User removable". Just like new laptop have non-removable batteries. Sure you can take apart the laptop and remove the battery. But that is the nature of "non removable".

A minivan without removable 2nd row seats would be a no-sale for me. Just like a minivan without fold flat 3rd row would be a no-sale as well.
 

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Honestly this might affect YOU, but the grand majority of minivan buyers will never even attempt to remove the 2nd row and thus will never see this as an issue.

Do you really think even 5% of minivan buyers care about this much less a large enough percentage where this will actually affect Toyotas sales on this model?
As much as I think I agree with you overall. I am curious to see a survey on the subject as I don't agree the percentage is that low. Certainly there must be a higher percentage of mini van owners who have owned a minivan or currently do, that have had at least a few times they needed to take out 1 or 2 mid row seats for a large object purchased at Costco or HD, or when moving. Not saying that I think it's the majority of owners. But maybe it is. I certainly think it's higher than 5%.

I also don't see what real benefit comes from removing the track system that allows easy front/back movement as well as the ability to remove them.
 

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Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous? This would kill an entire market segment. People WANT to camp in their vans, and they also want to carry cargo. They announced a stellar tow rating for the hybrid, which is great. But how could they be so short sighted by not allowing the middle row to be removed?

One of the amazing things about the Prius hybrid was the ability to sleep in the cabin with climate control. (#hotelprius) Seems like Toyota didn't pay attention to this.

Goodbye dog owners, car campers, or anyone who wants to carry anything in their van.

???!!!
Is there a link to an article? I see the seats fold and also look like they have a track system to slide. So it seems like it could also be popped out of the track as well. At first I was upset about this possibly loss of function to remove. But then saw this is about the hybrid. So as long as the gas only model has removable seats, I am ok with a hybrid having this lost feature. Though it doesn't make much sense to drop this function anyways. Possibly a reduction in weight, but it's a hybrid not an all-electric so they don't need to drop as much weight as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Yes, I believe that at least 5% of minivan market segment likes to remove the middle row seats for dogs, car-camping, cargo hauling, napping on road trips, etc. Considering how much of a response this post received, I think that you are wrong. And given how popular #hotelprius is, I also think that a large percentage of hybrid-buyers wish to utilize the on/off climate control for car-camping. Just check out the priusdwellers subreddit if you disagree.
 

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Toyota shouldn't weigh making the seats removable because some percent of buyers will use them. It because it is the right thing to do.

By the way my '14 can fit not just 4x8's but full 49" x 97" MDF and melamine panels.

I plan to move to the Pacifica when an upgrade is due. This new one is just too SUV looking for me.
 

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+1 for this is ridiculous. I still have my 2010 because I do not even want the trolleys left behind. I almost never have the 2nd row seats in. I move sofas and love the 8' "covered bed" of my Sienna. I have been waiting over 10 years for Toyota to bring a Hybrid Sienna to the US. They have been making hybrid vans for the Japanese market that get over 45MPG. I love my Prius V and really want the new Sienna, but cant buy one without removable / stow-able seats.
 

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Discussion Starter #47
Agreed about the Prius V. I will keep my V for a while longer. I was hoping to upgrade to the Sienna Hybrid, but I just can't do it. My Prius V is great for car camping and carrying bicycles with the seat removed. I just can't get excited about the 2021 Sienna until we get this clarified. Hopefully the seats are removable , even if there are bolts and electrical connections to deal with. I imagine that will trigger some undesirable lights on the dashboard.....But I really want a Hybrid MiniVan "Camper"... ... UGH!!
 

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Am I the only one that thinks this is ridiculous? This would kill an entire market segment. People WANT to camp in their vans, and they also want to carry cargo. They announced a stellar tow rating for the hybrid, which is great. But how could they be so short sighted by not allowing the middle row to be removed?
One of the amazing things about the Prius hybrid was the ability to sleep in the cabin with climate control. (#hotelprius) Seems like Toyota didn't pay attention to this.
Goodbye dog owners, car campers, or anyone who wants to carry anything in their van.
???!!!
This is RIDICULOUS!! So much so that I give lots of points to Chrysler for their Stow-n-Go system.
 

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Being able to haul cargo (including 4 X 8 plywood or mother-in-law's Queen size mattress or dresser) is one of the hallmarks of a minivan.
Absolutely. My favorite minivan of all time is the AWD Chevy Astro / GMC Safari, last produced in 2005. Huge 170 cu ft. cargo capacity after (easily) removing 2nd /3rd row seats and 5,500 lb towing capacity. We never bought bike or ski racks because there was enough space to keep them inside! Column shifter and no center console allowed easy walking from row 1 to 3. For many minivan buyers, function is far more important than form.
 

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If Toyota is even paying attention, non removable 2nd row seats cripples the utility of the '21 Sienna. We use our '06 for transporting our tandem recumbent:
If we can't use a new Sienna for this, we can buy a sedan and a kayak trailer...much cheaper to buy, cheaper taxes, cheaper to feed...
46234
 

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If Toyota is even paying attention, non removable 2nd row seats cripples the utility of the '21 Sienna. We use our '06 for transporting our tandem recumbent:
If we can't use a new Sienna for this, we can buy a sedan and a kayak trailer...much cheaper to buy, cheaper taxes, cheaper to feed...
View attachment 46234
Why haven’t you already done this?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #55
If the feature of removing the second row is so important, why not just buy a new 2020?
I want to have my cake and eat it too.

I want the hybridized climate control system for car-camping, which allows for comfortable sleeping within the cab. (I would buy the Pacifica Hybrid, but that vehicle shuts off after 1-hour, thereby preventing car-camping - and then they call that a "feature"!!)

And I also want an improvement upon the terrrrrrrrible "trolleys" of the 3rd generation.
 

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Let's face it, the 3rd gen Sienna is long in the tooth, it's been long overdue and has one of the worst safety ratings, from all testing agencies, in its class on record. It is also behind in modern amenities such as number of USBs, LED front lighting, not to mention a very old engine chassis and structural underpinnings. There is nothing wrong with wanting the new 4th gen van but pointing out its shortcomings. Minivans are bashed, I believe undeservedly, for their frumpy looks and uncool factor, which Toyota has boldly addressed, I like the SUV-like styling cues, as it looks like a cousin to the new Highlander but it has lost some of the advantage of cargo space minivans traditionally have over 3-row SUVs, since thesecond row seats cannot be folded or removed. This puts the Sienna at a disadvantage compared to Honda Odyssey and Chrysler Pacifica when it come to practical flexibility. The Sienna still pulls ahead on
n efficiency and reliability (based on history) but it no longer ahead on all metrics. I can see Honda hybridizing the Odyssey very soon and Chrysler adding AWD functionality to its plug-in hybrid, but I don't think they will make the mistake of toying with practical flexibility (btw, Honda Odyssey has rectified the ability to fold the seatbacks of the 2nd row seats in the upcoming 2021 iteration of the van, so it looks like they got flak for not doing this in the 2018 Van when it first rolled out)
 

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I have almost 300,000 miles on my 2004, been waiting for the 2021 to finally upgrade. Non-removable seats is a deal breaker for me. Guess I need to start shopping for something else. Very disappointing.
I have a gray 2002 Sienna with +265,000 miles. Still runs nice but burns some oil now, and wife doesn't trust it for road trips anymore. So two years ago I got a new cranberry 2018 Sienna, thinking that it would have all the great functionalities of my '02, plus improvements. Unfortunately, that was not a good assumption:

Biggest disappointment has been non-removable 2nd row seats.

Climate controls are over-kill: '02 Sienna has knobs with intermediate detent positions & limit stops, you could set fan speed & temp just by touch and counting the detent "bumps." New Sienna has too many "zone" options and you can't set anything by touch (knobs have no stop positions, you just turn them endlessly up or down and you have to take your eyes off the road and visually scan the LCD screen to see the setting).

Engine makes a quiet clicking when waiting at a traffic light, and I don't know what kind of transmission it has, but there is a slight lag when accelerating from a stop, not as smooth; both are annoying.

Not to say I wouldn't still have bought the Sienna, but I should have looked around some more. I still have the old Sienna for its cargo area, but the sexy young red hussy gets the prized parking spot on the driveway while the faithful dented old grey lady sits out at the curb. I feel like a cheating husband...
 

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Discussion Starter #59
I believe he is griping about the Trolleys, which are a known nuisance. They completely obliterate the idea of a "cargo space" because they prevent a flat floor.
 

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[

Engine makes a quiet clicking when waiting at a traffic light, and I don't know what kind of transmission it has, but there is a slight lag when accelerating from a stop, not as smooth; both are annoying.
Switch the ECT Mode on the dash display to PWR to shift faster. . You must turn it ON every time the van is started. PIA but makes the van drive with power.
 
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