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Recommendations on buying 4th Gen or 3rd Gen Sienna

8K views 15 replies 10 participants last post by  starlightmica 
#1 ·
Hi everybody,

I am planning to buy a Sienna to go on long trips with my family. It needs to be very reliable, that is why I am looking for either a new one or very low milage.

I would be so happy to hear your experience/recommendations.

Thanks much
 
#2 ·
I think if you want a reliable road-trip car, you can't beat the 4th gen Sienna with its incredible mileage. While I can't personally comment on 4th gen reliability, Toyota's hybrid powertrain is absolutely over-engineered and bullet-proof. Heck, taxis love Toyota hybrids -- they can take abuse!

(BTW I test drove different 4th gen trim levels, and liked the road feel of the XSE AWD the most.)

I needed to be able to remove the middle-row seats on a whim, but that's not possible on the 4th gen. That was the deal-breaker for me.

As for used 3rd gen, prices are really high right now. It would make more sense to buy a new 4th gen if you can get one at sticker versus a 3rd gen.

But if you want to hear about 3rd gen...

As a 2-time 3rd-gen owner (bought-new 2012 and now a used 2018), they have been incredibly reliable over the past 10 years of ownership. In fact, I've never had more reliable cars in my 35 years of driving. Not Honda, not Acura, not GM, not Ford, not Chrysler. Certainly not European (albeit I've only owned a Saab.) The Sienna has never broken down on the road -- not once. Rarely been back to dealer for repairs (a few TSBs.) Brakes last a long time for such a vehicle...expect 60K miles or more. No timing belt to change at 100K. Tires wear out evenly and not at accelerated rate. (I had a set of Goodyear Assurance Tripletred, the precursor to the current Assurance Weatheready, that went 80K and still had 3/32nd left.) Never a fluid leak. No issues with sliding doors or tailgate. Always started in cold Chicago winters, with battery lasting about 5 years. The spark plugs out of the 2012 @ 125K miles looked like new. 2018 will be different with DI engine though. Parts are relatively cheap and many local mechanics can handle maintenance and repairs.

With routine maintenance, I think these would be the things you may encounter on a 3rd gen WITH HIGH MILEAGE:

Rear wheel bearings (all 3rd gen)
Rear differential coupler front bearings (on pre-2015)
Front upper engine mount (on 2011-2016...2GR-FE engines)
Stock Bridgestone run-flats on AWD -- horrible, replace them with something like Michelin CrossClimate2's or Goodyear Assurance Weatheready.

My 2018 XLE is quieter than the 2012 Limited I had. Not sure if this is indicative of 2018-2020. I also like the revised front-end styling versus pre-2018.

Good luck!
 
#3 ·
Thank you so much for replying. It is very helpful. As you emphasized there won't be much difference in terms of price point between like new 3rd gen or 4th gen. That is why I am more into buying a new 4th gen. I know middle row is normally not removable on 4th gen but I do not need to do that. I want it to be loaded that is why I am trying to find either limited or platinum but it is almost impossible to find and wait times are long.

I did not decide yet what to do, I will let you know when I decide.
 
#4 ·
Hi everybody,

I am planning to buy a Sienna to go on long trips with my family. It needs to be very reliable, that is why I am looking for either a new one or very low milage.

I would be so happy to hear your experience/recommendations.

Thanks much
If you do, please make sure it is certified. You have a year for them to fix problems. Oh, and check the CarFax fir recalls. In my search, there was a jade green one where CarFax suggested to have it checked at a frame shop, yet is showed no accidents reported. Be careful buying privately unless you do your homework.
 
#5 ·
The only experience I have with Gen4 is seeing them on the road.

My previously-owned '18 XLE AWD is absolutely GREAT. I like it a lot better than the '05 LE AWD that I had for about 11 years.

I got my '18 with just under 30,000 miles on it. The (stock, run-flat) tires were worn, they were replaced with Michelin Defenders. I have had them on other vehicles with great results. The brakes were a bit sketchy. Looked at the rotors, some of them only had about half the surface contact they should have, so I replaced rotors, pads and calipers. Great braking now.

The only mechanical 'issue' was the fuel pump recall. I never had problems with it, but had it changed. Also had CarPlay added to the radio at that time.

Anything else has been merely for the sake of making it "mine".
  • converted all exterior lights to LEDs.
  • added LED strips under front doors for 'puddle lights'
  • replaced rear reflectors with LED tail/brake lights for better conspicuity
  • added DrawTite trailer hitch
  • added Tekonsha P3 brake controller
  • added CB radio with mag-mount antenna that fits in 8th seat storage bay when not using it (yes, I'm old school)

I fully expect this van to see 300,000 miles like many of my other Toyotas have (4, so far, the 5th one was at 275k and going strong).

.
 
#6 ·
Rent a 4th gen Sienna from your nearest airport or toyota dealer. i did accidentally and got hooked. i havent driven a minivan for over 10 yrs, I drive SUVs primarily for hauling my road bike and boat (need the hitch). After renting it - i did not realize how car like it was compared to my Mercedes ML class SUV. So placed an order immediately after.
 
#7 ·
My advice is to "stay away" from 2022 Sienna's. Well, unless you want to buy a battery charger and jump start your new car most of the time you want to drive it, because it has a problem running down the battery. Its because of the "gimmicky" foot operated door openers and closers, which quickly become clogged with road grime and often discharge the battery.
My 2023 Sienna XLE does not have that problem because the foot door openers dont work, probably because they were disabled by Toyota, because of this problem. I have no idea how they will ever fix this road grime problem on the sensors under the car. Most people dont want to crawl under their car, clean off the road grime off the foot opener sensors, once or twice a week, so they can start their car. I dont. Or, carry a battery charger with them, so their 50,000 dollar Sienna can be jump started every time it fails to start. If I wanted a car that had to be jump started, one can be had for about $1000 bucks..never mind paying 50 grand for a car you must jump start most of the time.
 
#9 ·
Well, Im happy with my 2023 Sienna..mostly. And, yes, I traded in my HONDA hybrid..and got over MSRP for it.
There is a shortage of hybrids..not just cars so much. We are not the only people who want 36 miles per gallon.

I figured out in about 2019, that you could buy new cars for less than used. While this is mostly not true with other cars, it can still be true with "hard to find" cars like the Sienna, Rav4 hybrid, CRV hybrid, etc. Remember, Toyota raised the price of new sienas around 3000 over 2022's.

BEFORE I buy a car, I now do my homework.. I check to see how much a one year old, in great condition, with low miles would bring. (KBB). With Sienna, this is a no brainer. You can buy a new one, if you dont like it probably sell it used for MSRP..or more. Maybe even to someone on this forum who cant find one after looking a year or more! Of course, you have to keep the car "in new condition". That shouldnt be TOO difficult for at least a year or so. I agree, a Sienna, RAV4 hybrid are gold. I have "feelers" out at my favorite dealers, looking for a RAV4 hybrid at MSRP. The RAV 4 hybrid is even harder to find than CRV hybrid, but both are tough. I bought a CRV hybrid because I could not find a RAV4 hybrid.

I have a good relationship with dealers. For example, when I found out they had a 2023 Sienna coming in, I asked them if they had a used one I can drive. (Im older and need to know its comfortable FOR ME.). So, I drove a used one. OR, one time they had a new one (that was sold). He let me sit in it, because the buyer, had committed, but the paperwork not signed yet. So, I sat in it. There is just something about "seeing it in the flesh" vs looking at pictures and videos. That's why I generally dont buy online..I buy locally when possible.
 
#10 ·
Its a great place to be in. I have a 2023 Sienna. I can keep it, or sell it for probably msrp or more, as it has like 4000 miles and looks, acts, and drives like new. I hate driving a car I dont want to own because Im upside down in it owe more than its worth and would have to write a big check just to get rid of it. Instead, I plan ahead so Im not in that awful position, by looking up resale value of a year old model..with low miles. I put myself in this postion, on purpose. It did not happen by accident. There are wolves out there ready to devour your money.
 
#11 · (Edited)
Have a 3rd gen 2.7 4 cylinder. A prime purchase considerations was engine lay out/component accessibility vs the V-6, so that removes me and my opinions from the typical buyer. Plugs, belts and hoses are all pretty to get to for DIY maintenance. Only real annoyance is the cartridge filter design.

Oil consumption went from zero to about a quart every 1400 miles as I passed the 190,000 mile mark. Was able to change the PCV valve but that wasn’t the issue. Most likely worn rings; lots of chatter about the issue if you look.

Biggest potential (well documented) issue is likely transmission maintenance or the lack of it. Tried to get the local dealer to change the “world class lifetime fluid” at 50,000 but they wouldn’t touch it and the DIY procedures you can find now weren’t available. Did the first 3 quart change at 120,000 but the fluid didn’t look good at all.

Around 180000 developed a 2nd to 3 up shift glitch. By resetting the adaptive transmission shift point it went away for 16 months then reappeared, same reset, went away, repeat. Again, not an unknown issue if you search.

Toyota dealerships (at least the 5 I talked to) won’t do component repair or meaningful diagnostics on transmissions, simply pull and replace. Actually it was an independent transmission shop that figured out the adaptive shift point data was corrupting. Toyota dealership shops insisted replacement was the only option. Replacement isn’t cheap, remans or used only, no labor warranty , minimal parts warranty.

Vehicle currently shows 250,000 plus at the moment, same oil consumption, tranny is in one of its working fine periods.

Long answer to your question. I’d drop 10K on a 4 cyl 2011/2012 with less than 125,000 if I found one. Good luck in doing that at the moment. I’d stay away from any with a tow hitch used for anything other than a bike rack. If you live in the northern climates check the spare tire cable assembly. Was a recall but not everyone pays attention to those. Other post address the 2017 and up gadget inclusion; you can decide if that a good thing for your needs or not.


Good Luck
 
#12 ·
I used to do it just like you did. I did my own maintenance, and kept a car as many miles as I could make it go, squeezing out those last miles, being held together with wire and duct tape. Not any more.
I buy new cars, and trade them in less than 3 years old.
I had to "rethink" my thinking. It used to be we never bought new cars, because "they lost 5k when you drove them off the lot". Check the KBB book value on a new one. Mine is more than I paid,
Also, people think "used cars" dont depreciate. They do. Try this. Look up a 2011 Sienna..with low miles. Then for research assume you buy it from the dealer, then take it and sell it to another dealer for trade in value. Yep, there goes 5 grand. That same 5 grand we said you lost when you buy a new one..well many times you lose 5 grand when you drive a used one off the lot now, and much less with a new one.

Its a fallacy that new cars depreciate and used ones dont.

I also notice, if you look at the "total cost to own" charts, how the maintenance goes way up, starting about the third year.

It would be easy to see someone who bought a real old car, and wound up making new car type payments "in maintenance and repairs"..so that saves no money. Its silly to put a lot of money into a car with 250,000 miles..you probably will never get that money back. All you can hope for is maybe get another 10,000 out of her until something else goes wrong. Of course, "car shield" and the like, is not a solution.

I checked, and on a 2021 (2 yr old) Sienna XLE with 20,000 miles is worth around 41k on trade in. While I bought all wheel drive, the fwd 2023 is around 44k new. That means you had about 3000 in depreciation over 2 years, That is less depreciation than most used cars, like I explained, above.

With a 2 year old car, it should be in warranty, so your repairs should be zero. Heck, you dont even need to change the oil, it has 2 years free oil changes.

So, I buy new cars and ditch them before the warranty is up, but I check to see how much less it will be worth than what i pay for it before I sign the bottom line.

New cars are the best buys now. Used cars are often more expensive. It did not used to be that way, but the world changes.
 
#13 ·
It depends on how you use the van.

Gen 3 Pro
1. V6 has much better mid-range power. Even better with the 2017+ with the direct injection. This is one of the biggest selling point.
2. 3rd row space is also significantly better in Gen 3 over gen 4

Gen 3 con
1. Outdated infotainment system and safety feature.
2. Body roll and soft suspension- it drives big

Gen 4 Po
1. Excellent gas mileage- although I don't see a point of buying a minivan to haul people and worry about gas mileage.
2. Drives better, handle better

Gen 4 Con
1. Power is not acceptable if you are using it to always carry full load of people over long stretch of hills.
2.3rd row space is bad. Headroom, armrest etc all took a huge step back.

personally gen 3.5 with the DI V6 is the way to go.
 
#14 ·
There are reasons why Gen 3 came first and Toyota engineers "improved" the design in Gen 4.
It depends on how you use the van.

Gen 3 Pro
1. V6 has much better mid-range power. Even better with the 2017+ with the direct injection. This is one of the biggest selling point.
2. 3rd row space is also significantly better in Gen 3 over gen 4

Gen 3 con
1. Outdated infotainment system and safety feature.
2. Body roll and soft suspension- it drives big

Gen 4 Po
1. Excellent gas mileage- although I don't see a point of buying a minivan to haul people and worry about gas mileage.
2. Drives better, handle better

Gen 4 Con
1. Power is not acceptable if you are using it to always carry full load of people over long stretch of hills.
2.3rd row space is bad. Headroom, armrest etc all took a huge step back.

personally gen 3.5 with the DI V6 is the way to go.
I agree, with much of what was said, except that its easy to underestimate the power of the hybrid. Remember the power of the electric motors is instant, while gas engines have to rev up to the max rpm to get the stated horsepower. My Sienna, tho not a "race van", is more than adequate for virtually all things except towing. If you tow a trailer, you would be better off with the largest motor you can find. Or, even if you often stuff heavy stuff in the van. My Sienna (2023 XLE AWD) does great with passengers, tho I can notice the extra weight up steep hills. If you put in 7 more adults, and a driver, that could be around 1400 pounds. However, with children its more like maybe 500 pounds additional weight.

When people buy Toyota's, they are buying good gas mileage. If they dont want it, and want power, consider a Corvette, instead.
As far as "worrying" about gas mileage, I dont worry about it..I have the hybrid, and it gets around 600 miles per tank, so I worry about it far less than a V6 Gen 3, which is more like half of that.

But, neither the V6 Sienna, nor the Gen 4 hybrid is a great tow vehicle, except for very light towing. If you need a tow vehicle you should either get a F350 Ford or probably a RAM. Stay away from Japanese car companies for heavy towing. This includes the Tundra or Tacoma. While Im a toyota fan, GM Ford and Dodge Ram have decades of building tow vehicles expereince and they are just better than Toyota who has way less experience.
 
#16 ·
If you planned on carrying your boards up top, some 4th gen Siennas don't have roof racks as it was an option. Prior gens had them standard on most trims, but not the base L. Crossbars are not included on 3rd (IIRC) and 4th gens.

I have a June 2022 build, the rear hatch kick-to-open works inconsistently, kick sliding doors work just fine, no problems with battery drain.

My prior daily drivers were mostly 4 cylinders, so the noise and power levels don't bother me. YMMV
 
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