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No, unfortunately they can't. We have no idea about the mass of the truck, the angle of impact, the velocity, the height of contact compared to how the standardized test is executed. That an accident occurred and that innocents were killed really adds nothing, scientifically speaking.
 

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It is extremely sad to read of the deaths of the four family members in that article. Prayers to the family.
However, that does not really provide evidence to the safety of the van (neither positive nor negative).
Each and every accident is a different scenario. There is no evidence that can prove that those four who perished would not have died if they were in any other vehicle, no matter make or model.
 

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That an accident occurred and that innocents were killed really adds nothing, scientifically speaking.
LOL, I happened to tell my college statistics professor yesterday - he's probably now in his mid-80's - that I've often told people that I owe all my success to him.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
No, unfortunately they can't. We have no idea about the mass of the truck, the angle of impact, the velocity, the height of contact compared to how the standardized test is executed. That an accident occurred and that innocents were killed really adds nothing, scientifically speaking.
Looks like the impacting vehicle was a RAM 3500 Dually equipped with a Utility Box.

Curb weight ranges 6,056 to 7,536 lbs

The interesting thing about this crash is that the offset (80/20) of the rear impact appears eerily similar to the FMSVV 301 test.

SiennaOrlandoCrash2.jpg
 

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The FMVSS 301 Rear Crash Test is not IIHS, which to the best of my knowledge, either does not test nor does it provide rear crash ratings.
They may not provide the ratings, but their signage is clearly on the test vehicle, and the facility is a dead ringer for other tests that are known to be theirs.

Speculation here, but perhaps they are running this test, but do not consider this particular test to be well proven enough to be confident in releasing their results officially.
 

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I look at damaged Siennas pretty frequently from fender benders to totaled and all the rear damage I've ever seen on a Sienna has never looked that bad per your video you linked us to. Unless a Lamborghini, Ferrari, or something that low of nature is going to rear end me at 50 MPH...I'm not even going to worry about it.
 

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That's probably because they are not SUVs. They are mini-vans. That's a very different category.
compared to most modern suvs a minivan is pretty much an suv, a minivan is about as close to an old school bronco or cherokee as an edge or cx-5. they are different classes of vehicle sure, but every year they are growing closer and closer, and id bet a majority of people who consider a minivan and then buy an suv will never use that suv in any situation the van couldnt handle and very likely would have been better off just getting the van. i want real suvs back, but the people have spoken. this is how i see it anyway, unless a ford edge has some super advanced suspension hiding under there im not aware of, it just seems like a different looking van with a couple inches more ground clearance...
 

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Discussion Starter #28
I look at damaged Siennas pretty frequently from fender benders to totaled and all the rear damage I've ever seen on a Sienna has never looked that bad per your video you linked us to. Unless a Lamborghini, Ferrari, or something that low of nature is going to rear end me at 50 MPH...I'm not even going to worry about it.
I think the take away from this is that vehicle safety has come a very long way when it comes to front offset and side impact collisions.
With that said, it seems that very little attention has been paid to rear offset collisions, and certainly there are no safety ratings that I'm aware of.
We live a very congested metro area where freeway off ramps back up onto the main travel lanes on a daily basis and have witnesses several offset rear collisions..
While 50 MPH offset rear impacts may be infrequent if you live in a small or medium sized city, they definitely occur in congested metros at a much higher rate.
Hopefully conversations like this will one day prompt the government, insurance companies and vehicle manufacturers to better address this overlooked area of vehicle safety.
 

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The Jeep Liberty had an issue with rear collisions which would puncture the gas tank. Their official fix was to do a recall and install a trailer hitch on every one of them to stiffen the rear. So, I'd hope adding a trailer hitch to a later model Sienna would help to distribute the crash forces better. I put a Draw-Tite Class III Max Frame Receiver Hitch on ours. The side supports bolt to the factory hitch locations that are on box like parts of the uni-body ("frame like" in appearance). The beefy cross bar is hidden behind the rear bumper cover, so I'd think in a crash like the video shows, that hitch is going to make a big difference.
 

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That would be an interesting reversal. In general, trailer hitches promote MORE structural damage to the rear subframe, making unibody vehicles more difficult and costly to repair.

In a light rear hit, the bumper beam, foam blocks and absorbers take the impact and protect the frame. But with the addition of a hitch assembly, a lot more of the energy reaches the boxed steel (frame), sending the damage forward to where the rear suspension ties in. That greatly increases the cost and complexity of saving the vehicle.

In a severe crash, especially in an offset crash, the hitch beam might help to spread the energy to both sides. The vehicle is more likely toast, but it might decrease the crumple that impinges on the occupant area. Maybe...
 

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compared to most modern suvs a minivan is pretty much an suv, a minivan is about as close to an old school bronco or cherokee as an edge or cx-5.
Not even close.


they are different classes of vehicle sure
That's right. They are different classes of vehicles. Period.

but every year they are growing closer and closer, and id bet a majority of people who consider a minivan and then buy an suv will never use that suv in any situation the van couldnt handle
Debateable, but either way, it has nothing at all to do with which class a Sienna falls into. It's not an SUV. It's a mini-van.
 

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Oh, please. Are you serious? You really don't know the difference between an SUV and a mini-van???
all im saying is i can see no 2 classes of vehicle that are closer to each other than suv and minivan, and i think that didnt always used to be the case, comparing a 1994 windstar to a 1994 blazer would be hilarious, they would have so little in common. but comparing a 2019 sienna to a 2019 edge... they have a lot in common... they tow about the same, have similar mpg, similar weight, they are very similarly shaped, often used for the same exact purposes, similar cost, have similar tire and wheel size...? suvs are being neutered down to basically be different sizes of vans. every car is turning into a potato that looks and functions the same.
 

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From a standpoint of historical origins, many of today's larger Toyota products began life from their sedans. The Corolla gave birth to the RAV4, the Camry the first generation Highlander and Sienna. They are unibody construction with separate front and rear subframes, and mostly shared FWD drivetrain components.

The "F" variants of the FWD "E" transmissions provided a rear driveshaft for the SUV and later the van, and more robust rear suspension and independent arms marked the largest deviation from the sedans. Raising the SUV for a more macho look and the desire for higher tow capacity resulted in more robust rear framing and suspension. The vans need that structure too for additional rear passengers and strong central strength for sliding doors. But if you have ever looked at the structure in the body repair manual, the roots of the van and SUV is unmistakable.

Over the years, the vans and SUV's departed more from the sedans based on max GVW and towing. Extra cross bracing and larger boxes joining the front and rear suspension segments aided rigidity. The Toyota TNGA architecture is moving them back closer together. Finite element modeling and wider use of high strength steel is making the basic construction details of sedans and cross-over vehicles (including van and SUV) more alike and functionally similar.

So what separates a 3400 lb 4-5 passenger sedan and a 4500 lb 7-8 passenger van or SUV? Mostly scaling of components, and not all that much in design differences.
 
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All this may all be true but for anyone who has young kids it will be difficult to put them in the back after seeing those pics.
 
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