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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi guys,

My 2022 XSE AWD Sienna(Canada Version) is about 1750 kms and now on my third tank of gas. First two tanks ended with 7.5 and 7.0L/100km(31 and 33 mpg). I'm in Canada and will see if the warmer weather will get this improved or not. But I have a feeling I won't reach the number of 36 mpg.

We all know the good of this minivan and that's why we're here. So I will skip the advantage and jump into something I'm not so happy with.

The first thing I want to complain is the engine. After three weeks of ride on this new minivan, I accidentally drove my aged(2013) Lexus RX350 once and I found I could not control the throttle, feels like a monster compared to the new hybrid system. I haven't tried the sport mode yet, all under "normal". The noise of engine in the cabin is extremely loud when battery is on vacation or going uphill, the real-time fuel consumption goes over 20 pretty quick and last a long time. And even so the acceleration is kinda ehhhh.

The EV mode is either not available or exceed the speed limit. Useless.

The other thing is the remote start. I tried once to remote start it and after 8 mins when I opened the door, it stopped at that moment. Why? And guess what? It was mostly using the battery so the water temperature did not raise at all. Why? Maybe I just misunderstand the purpose of remote start?

Anyways, this is my first hybrid and it's only 1750 kms. Most of the time I'm satisfied and glad to have it.

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Thank you.
 

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You'll get various mileages and pretty sure better then what you have gotten so far... our best was during middle of winter. Remote start will not help though.

Have not driven in summer temps yet so hopefully can beat the best so far on one tank... close to 40 mpg.

Have gotten over 40 mpg on several trips but longest trip was at most 100 kms drive.

Otherwise low to mid 30s mpg.
 

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The other thing is the remote start. I tried once to remote start it and after 8 mins when I opened the door, it stopped at that moment. Why? And guess what? It was mostly using the battery so the water temperature did not raise at all. Why? Maybe I just misunderstand the purpose of remote start?
I think most people use it to pre-warm/pre-cool the cabin, I assume the HVAC was working during that time?
 

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Remote start stops when the door opens? That's normal. It's a security safety thing. All Toyota, Subaru do that among others. I've had a couple they all do that.

The only one I haven't had that happen was my Chevy truck (2016). I don't know why..
 

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The other thing is the remote start. I tried once to remote start it and after 8 mins when I opened the door, it stopped at that moment. Why? And guess what? It was mostly using the battery so the water temperature did not raise at all. Why? Maybe I just misunderstand the purpose of remote start?
With remote start, the HVAC system must be left on when you turn off the car. Then it will heat/cool the cabin when remote started. If it is indeed cold in the cabin, the engine will remain on longer to generate heat. If the heat is left off, the engine just goes through its warmup cycle (about three minutes) and shuts off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thank you guys for the reply. So now I understand. The remote start doesn't mean to warm up the water temperature but to start the HVAC. So it's different with the normal fuel vehicles. I may not wanna renew this service the second year as I really want the water temperature to be raised and in ready to drive condition.

Cheers guys.
 

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Thank you guys for the reply. So now I understand. The remote start doesn't mean to warm up the water temperature but to start the HVAC. So it's different with the normal fuel vehicles. I may not wanna renew this service the second year as I really want the water temperature to be raised and in ready to drive condition.

Cheers guys.
Isn’t the best way to do this via block heater If that’s what you want?
Surely idling the ICE is the dirtiest for the environment (Catalytic hasn’t reached temperature yet) and worst for the engine.

I wish Toyota had built in a light plug-in option that would add a block heater and top up the HV battery for slightly better mileage, warm engine and lower wear from cold starts.
 

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Isn’t the best way to do this via block heater If that’s what you want?
Surely idling the ICE is the dirtiest for the environment (Catalytic hasn’t reached temperature yet) and worst for the engine.

I wish Toyota had built in a light plug-in option that would add a block heater and top up the HV battery for slightly better mileage, warm engine and lower wear from cold starts.
I agree, the way I see it is, Toyota engineers programmed the engine to turn on as needed, otherwise, it's ready to drive. You're better off warming up everything by driving gently rather than idling the engine.

I would totally buy that option to have plug-in to top the batteries, and also pre-heat/pre-cool the interior electrically (like on EV's), instead of burning gas doing that. Since the car already has an electrical A/C compressor, it shouldn't be hard to implement. They already sell the Comfort+ option with that weak built-in space heater to warm the interior in winter, but it would be so much better if they just put in an electrical heat pump in the built-in HVAC.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Isn’t the best way to do this via block heater If that’s what you want?
Surely idling the ICE is the dirtiest for the environment (Catalytic hasn’t reached temperature yet) and worst for the engine.

I wish Toyota had built in a light plug-in option that would add a block heater and top up the HV battery for slightly better mileage, warm engine and lower wear from cold starts.
I see. Yup the block heater is the thing I want. But don't see people using it in my province, maybe more common in western provinces. Let me do some research on that.
 

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Thank you guys for the reply. So now I understand. The remote start doesn't mean to warm up the water temperature but to start the HVAC. So it's different with the normal fuel vehicles. I may not wanna renew this service the second year as I really want the water temperature to be raised and in ready to drive condition.
Remote start does start the engine and it goes through its normal warmup cycle as programmed by Toyota. It would do exactly the same as if you got in the car and started it. If it is cold out, the engine does turn on. If it is warmer out (above 60 degrees F) the engine does not start unless the battery needs charging.

The hybrid is designed to run with a relatively cold engine. In fact, the first part of the warmup cycle, the engine runs at 1300 rpm and does not increase rpm until certain conditions are met. Power is mostly supplied by the battery to move the car.
 

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Regarding the throttle response: If the lighter and more powerful luxury SUV RX350 is your reference point, you will no doubt find the less powerful and heavier non-luxury Sienna van more sluggish and noisier:)

The forced EV mode is useful, as far as I can tell, for one purpose only: to get the van into- and out of a garage to help prevent the exhaust gases from seeping into the building. At the same time the automatic EV mode is useful for what it is intended to do, but not much more: With a warm engine and slow speed urban/suburban driving it will toggle ON and OFF all the time to optimize the engine operational conditions. At the highway speeds it will also toggle, but not very often.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Regarding the throttle response: If the lighter and more powerful luxury SUV RX350 is your reference point, you will no doubt find the less powerful and heavier non-luxury Sienna van more sluggish and noisier:)

The forced EV mode is useful, as far as I can tell, for one purpose only: to get the van into- and out of a garage to help prevent the exhaust gases from seeping into the building. At the same time the automatic EV mode is useful for what it is intended to do, but not much more: With a warm engine and slow speed urban/suburban driving it will toggle ON and OFF all the time to optimize the engine operational conditions. At the highway speeds it will also toggle, but not very often.
I am not pretty sure but I guess the Gen 3 Sienna has the same engine as RX350, so I was hesitating a long time choosing between Gen 3 and 4. I can hardly manually turn on the EV mode as it's either battery low or speed exceeded the limit. Only what you mentioned the automatic EV mode is useful to reduce the fuel consumption. And I found on the highway, the battery is always half full, and therefore a very short time the EV can be triggered.
 

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Remote start stops when the door opens? That's normal. It's a security safety thing. All Toyota, Subaru do that among others. I've had a couple they all do that.
I have a 2019 Honda Accord Hybrid, remote start works like a champ, and the ICE keeps running after you open the door and sit down. Before you drive, you do have to have the key present and press the START button.
 

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I am not pretty sure but I guess the Gen 3 Sienna has the same engine as RX350, so I was hesitating a long time choosing between Gen 3 and 4. I can hardly manually turn on the EV mode as it's either battery low or speed exceeded the limit. Only what you mentioned the automatic EV mode is useful to reduce the fuel consumption. And I found on the highway, the battery is always half full, and therefore a very short time the EV can be triggered.
I don't think there is any benefit from turning the EV mode on manually (other than when you are trying not to make any exhaust fumes). It won't save you any gas for sure, because when you run in the EV mode the battery will get depleted, so the engine will have to turn on to recharge it.

The computer tries to keep the battery at about 50% state-of-charge (SoC) at all times to prolong its life. Even when all the bars are lit, which you may see after rolling down a long hill, the battery is still around 70% of its real gross capacity.

I think it was a good choice for you to pick the Gen 4 Sienna, because the Gen 3 is a little long in the tooth (please forgive me, dear Gen 3 owners). If the world stays on its current course, I anticipate that in the next few years gas-guzzlers will be strong-armed off the public roads (recall the "Motor Law" prophecy in the Red Barchetta by Rush)
 
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From my experience, the mileage can be poor in the winter months. However, the biggest reason why is your engine does not have enough time to warm up (so it does not run on battery, at least for most of the time) and when it's not warm you run the battery much more. When the engine is warm I do get good mileage in the winter as well.

What I think is that the hybrid system works well for many types of driving, but to get very good results you need to drive to it's strengths: 75KM/H or less, few stops, coasting as much as possible (as opposed to heavy braking), and not altering your speed. I find that I get better mileage driving in the city than I do on the freeway, even with start/stop.

For example, this was a trip I took a little while ago. I was driving through the city and while the van was cold at the beginning, the length of trip gave it plenty of time to warm up.
Gadget Font Gas Display device Electronic device


With the warmer months, I have been able to get better mileage than this on similar trips. My Sienna is relatively new, so not broken in or anything yet either.

I find with the hybrid you have to adjust your driving habits more to really take advantage of it. I wish things like the EV Mode were "better" in that you could engage it at low speeds. I really question how strong the batteries are when you have to be under 30KM/H to engage the EV Mode. Maybe it's the lack of control? But it seems like there is a lot of "trust the van", and it leaves me disappointed some times. I don't like that I cannot run in pure EV at 70KM/H for long distances when I know I will be on a flat road cruising.
 

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Isn’t the best way to do this via block heater If that’s what you want?
Surely idling the ICE is the dirtiest for the environment (Catalytic hasn’t reached temperature yet) and worst for the engine.

I wish Toyota had built in a light plug-in option that would add a block heater and top up the HV battery for slightly better mileage, warm engine and lower wear from cold starts.
I bought the Toyota PLUS package that Toyota installs a block heater, cabin heater, and battery trickle charger. It's controlled by one plug, 115V. Its about 1000 bucks CDN. You can find all that aftermarket for half the price. but my dealer gave me a discount, and in fairness an aftermarket block heater could void the warranty :(

The Sienna is NOT a plug-in hybrid so there is no way to top up the HV traction battery. However, warming the engine via the bloack heater might help the HV battery prevent degraded performance in cold weather. So the Toyota PLUS package i described is the closest thing you can get. It's promoted to Canadians more.
 

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Hi guys,

My 2022 XSE AWD Sienna(Canada Version) is about 1750 kms and now on my third tank of gas. First two tanks ended with 7.5 and 7.0L/100km(31 and 33 mpg). I'm in Canada and will see if the warmer weather will get this improved or not. But I have a feeling I won't reach the number of 36 mpg.

We all know the good of this minivan and that's why we're here. So I will skip the advantage and jump into something I'm not so happy with.

The first thing I want to complain is the engine. After three weeks of ride on this new minivan, I accidentally drove my aged(2013) Lexus RX350 once and I found I could not control the throttle, feels like a monster compared to the new hybrid system. I haven't tried the sport mode yet, all under "normal". The noise of engine in the cabin is extremely loud when battery is on vacation or going uphill, the real-time fuel consumption goes over 20 pretty quick and last a long time. And even so the acceleration is kinda ehhhh.

The EV mode is either not available or exceed the speed limit. Useless.

The other thing is the remote start. I tried once to remote start it and after 8 mins when I opened the door, it stopped at that moment. Why? And guess what? It was mostly using the battery so the water temperature did not raise at all. Why? Maybe I just misunderstand the purpose of remote start?

Anyways, this is my first hybrid and it's only 1750 kms. Most of the time I'm satisfied and glad to have it.

Thank you.
Hi I have the Same model as you, since Dec 2021. 6000KM

7.5L/100Km is good. I'm happy at 7.5L I've gotten as low as 6.5L/100Km on rural single lane highways at cruise control and 85Km/hr. if you are averaging 7.0L/100km on a tank that's great and you shouldn't complain that's close to 900KM per tank? My sienna gets about 15% better mileage than my wife's 1.5L Turbo CRV Honda.

With my driving habits at 1.80 per litre gas, I'm saving 10 cents every KM i drive over my 2015 Sienna.
I'm getting 300-350 additional KM's per tank of gas over my old Sienna
I'm saving $250 a month at 2.09 per litre today in gas based on my drivng habits.

The van suffers poor mileage over 100Km/hr. For eample I get 9 L/100km driving 140Km/hr (Highway 407 GTA in case you are wondering where to drive that fast).

The Sienna only has a 1.9 KW/hr battery. It's limit on EV mode only is 25-30KM/hr. it's also temperature sensitive. Sure you might be able to hit 50KM/hr on flat land for a KM or two, but the second the Van has to overcome gravity, it needs the ICE. You want battery only driving, you need a far bigger traction battery. The Toyota RAV4 Prime is 18Kw/Hr battery and can do about 75KM on a single charge. Prius Prime might do 90KM. They also take 12 hours to charge on 115V or 4 hours on 220V.

Teslas are what 60-72 KW/Hr battery? You still can't get Toronto to Montreal on a single charge esp if you need heat.

For non-Prime Toyota's, EV is to ASSIST the ICE. if you thought you drive EV only, you bought the wrong vehicle. BTW the Highlander and Rav4 Hybrids have smaller batteries at 1.6 KW/Hr

just my thoughts to counter yours......
 

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7.5L is best I could get. My wife and I have heavy feet too( we both drive manual sports cars lol) I was hoping to get into 7.0L/100km but doesn't seem possible. We mainly drive local with some highway but so far we haven't taken trips longer than 150km roundtrip. I also put the car in normal mode only as I hate the eco mode throttle curve. I also put the the car on cruise control as much as I can and set around 120-130km/hr.

Fun fact... The steering wheel spoke on my xse fits a soda/pop can perfectly and prevents the cruise from turning off if you so happen to have your hands off the wheel. (I do NOT recommend hands free driving but it works, just saying)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hi I have the Same model as you, since Dec 2021. 6000KM

7.5L/100Km is good. I'm happy at 7.5L I've gotten as low as 6.5L/100Km on rural single lane highways at cruise control and 85Km/hr. if you are averaging 7.0L/100km on a tank that's great and you shouldn't complain that's close to 900KM per tank? My sienna gets about 15% better mileage than my wife's 1.5L Turbo CRV Honda.

With my driving habits at 1.80 per litre gas, I'm saving 10 cents every KM i drive over my 2015 Sienna.
I'm getting 300-350 additional KM's per tank of gas over my old Sienna
I'm saving $250 a month at 2.09 per litre today in gas based on my drivng habits.

The van suffers poor mileage over 100Km/hr. For eample I get 9 L/100km driving 140Km/hr (Highway 407 GTA in case you are wondering where to drive that fast).

The Sienna only has a 1.9 KW/hr battery. It's limit on EV mode only is 25-30KM/hr. it's also temperature sensitive. Sure you might be able to hit 50KM/hr on flat land for a KM or two, but the second the Van has to overcome gravity, it needs the ICE. You want battery only driving, you need a far bigger traction battery. The Toyota RAV4 Prime is 18Kw/Hr battery and can do about 75KM on a single charge. Prius Prime might do 90KM. They also take 12 hours to charge on 115V or 4 hours on 220V.

Teslas are what 60-72 KW/Hr battery? You still can't get Toronto to Montreal on a single charge esp if you need heat.

For non-Prime Toyota's, EV is to ASSIST the ICE. if you thought you drive EV only, you bought the wrong vehicle. BTW the Highlander and Rav4 Hybrids have smaller batteries at 1.6 KW/Hr

just my thoughts to counter yours......
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I saw a lot of useful advice and will try to follow it.

For EV only mode, my will is simply, that I want the car can be moved outside the garage by EV only(or to leave my community, when speed is below 25km/hr), which I found impossible as the temperature is low so it always says EV mode unavailable, even I noticed the battery is almost full(6/8). I don't need to drive on battery-only mode when I'm on the regular ride though.

Not a big complaint, just wish the EV mode would be more useful when the engine is still cold.

BTW, my third tank is now almost half full and the tank average is around 6.7L/100km. So the summer will have better mileage than the winter for sure.
 

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Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and experiences. I saw a lot of useful advice and will try to follow it.

For EV only mode, my will is simply, that I want the car can be moved outside the garage by EV only(or to leave my community, when speed is below 25km/hr), which I found impossible as the temperature is low so it always says EV mode unavailable, even I noticed the battery is almost full(6/8). I don't need to drive on battery-only mode when I'm on the regular ride though.

Not a big complaint, just wish the EV mode would be more useful when the engine is still cold.

BTW, my third tank is now almost half full and the tank average is around 6.7L/100km. So the summer will have better mileage than the winter for sure.
EV mode will have a greater temperature range if you turn off the cabin heat. Just turn it off immediately after starting the car (before the engine comes on).
 
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