[oka]

Last week, I could not start the car. All the lights looks very bright and very normal. When starting, the dash lights looked normal, so, I eliminated a weak battery. It was like the car ran out of fuel. It will keep turning but won't start. After some tries, it won't turn. The hours later, it started with some hesitation, or some times, it won't turn.

First, I plugged in two different OBDII tools, and both reported no error code. I gave the battery a trickle charge. Yesterday, it starting did not sound like a no-fuel start, it sounded more like starter going bad. Now it always starts, but with a little initial hickup.

I will link two starting audio in my Google drive hoping you'll be able to open the audio to listen and tell me if the issue is the starter or something else it might be.

AUDIO 1 of 2

AUDIO 2 of 2

 

[thanwu]

My guess is the starter since the battery is ok. you can try to use a wooden block to hit the starter if it stark again and replace it ASAP.

 

[ericreyn]

I am thinking fuel pump.

 

[thanwu]

It can be fuel pump. But failing fuel pump will throw a code, starter won’t.

 

[ericreyn]

I had two other vehicles they failed on and had no code either time. Both were intermittent and would start and run sometimes but other times a no start.
I would hook a pressure gage into the fuel rail and check it. If the vehicle is cranking over good and its not starting lack of fuel is probably at the top of the list.

 

[oka]

I had two other vehicles they failed on and had no code either time. Both were intermittent and would start and run sometimes but other times a no start.
I would hook a pressure gage into the fuel rail and check it. If the vehicle is cranking over good and its not starting lack of fuel is probably at the top of the list.

Yep, same symptom as yours. I will check the fuel pressure tomorrow, hopefully. What should the pressure be, around 40PSI (+/-)? By the way, I was checking the fuel system of this car, I realized it does not have an independent fuel filter, right?

Audio 3

I would hook a pressure gage into the fuel rail and check it. If the vehicle is cranking over good and its not starting lack of fuel is probably at the top of the list.

So, how did you fix this issue in your situation?

 

[ericreyn]

I have heard they have no fuel filter, just a screen attached to the fuel pump.
I haven't had any problems with this one so where to check the fuel pressure I am not certain of.
The other two vehicles I spoke of were easy to hook a gauge too. One of them I managed to get 15 gal. Of gas out of while the fuel pump decided to work for a bit. The day before it wouldn't start at all.
It made dropping the previously full tank way easier.




In both cases i replaced the fuel pump.

 

[oka]

I have heard they have no fuel filter, just a screen attached to the fuel pump.
I haven't had any problems with this one so where to check the fuel pressure I am not certain of.
The other two vehicles I spoke of were easy to hook a gauge too. One of them I managed to get 15 gal. Of gas out of while the fuel pump decided to work for a bit. The day before it wouldn't start at all.
It made dropping the previously full tank way easier.

In both cases i replaced the fuel pump.

Thank you for the info, well appreciated.

 

[BillG]

"When starting, the dash lights looked normal, so, I eliminated a weak battery."

I'm confused by this. Did you actually TEST the battery or just go based on no dimming lights when cranking? Crank-no-start conditions are usually either fuel or ignition related. Last time I had this, the shop I had it towed to said it was my fuel pump. The time before that, the shop I had it towed to said it was my spark plugs. Why does this problem only manifest in the Winter, when I have to have it towed instead of DIY? I have no idea!

Then, there's this: "I gave the battery a trickle charge. Yesterday, it starting did not sound like a no-fuel start, it sounded more like starter going bad. Now it always starts, but with a little initial hickup."

It's possible that you had a weak fuel pump (or weak battery or something else). Then, cranking for too long could have overheated the starter or the ignition relay. If you didn't actually test the battery, I'd test it first, plus the alternator to make sure it's actually putting out good voltage and make sure the cables/terminals are clean and tight. Then, I'd be paying someone to replace the fuel pump. While it's certainly a possible DIY, it's a pain to have to deal with the fuel tank and any spilled gas and whatnot. Make sure to have kitty litter on hand before you start. I will say, if your rear brake lines are even a little bit marginal, it may be worth replacing them at the same time. They go up and over the fuel tank, so you have full access when you drop the tank.

 

[Cliff M]

Last week, I could not start the car. All the lights looks very bright and very normal. When starting, the dash lights looked normal, so, I eliminated a weak battery. It was like the car ran out of fuel. It will keep turning but won't start. After some tries, it won't turn. The hours later, it started with some hesitation, or some times, it won't turn.

First, I plugged in two different OBDII tools, and both reported no error code. I gave the battery a trickle charge. Yesterday, it starting did not sound like a no-fuel start, it sounded more like starter going bad. Now it always starts, but with a little initial hickup.

I will link two starting audio in my Google drive hoping you'll be able to open the audio to listen and tell me if the issue is the starter or something else it might be.

AUDIO 1 of 2

AUDIO 2 of 2

The starter sounds normal to me, but it's hard to say just listening to those files. Do you have any other symptoms like rough running, skipping, hesitation, smoke out of the exhaust etc? It could be you have 2 types of problems, one possibly weak battery, bad cables/ground, weak starter etc, and then the second related to the engine itself like low fuel pressure, bad plugs, bad coils etc.

 

[oka]

I had two other vehicles they failed on and had no code either time. Both were intermittent and would start and run sometimes but other times a no start.
I would hook a pressure gage into the fuel rail and check it. If the vehicle is cranking over good and its not starting lack of fuel is probably at the top of the list.

I definitely believe it's a fuel issue, since no code.
My issue not is, I don't feel comfortable checking the fuel pressure inside the garage. I had driven the car backwards into the garage, started, but stopped. The gas furnace is now right behind the van; not a safe place or manner to do such.

Driving it to AutoZone for their scanner would be risky in case it stops on the way. The car starts fine, but sometimes it feels like it has little hiccups when running. No cheap to tow it to the mechanic and back home, just to use a higher-caliber scanner. Don't know what really to do.

 

[slothman]

You could still have a bad cell in the battery. The battery needs to be LOAD tested. Pull the battery, take it to autozone or Oreilly, they can test it for free. They can ALSO test the starter, and the alternator for FREE.

If all 3 test good, time to move onto fuel.

A good scanner will show the pressure at the fuel rail. You can also check long term fuel trims. If you don't have a good scanner, now is the time to buy one. And don't skimp out, spend the $200-400 for something quality with multiple functions. If you aren't willing to put in this work just drop it off at the shop....

 

[oka]

You could still have a bad cell in the battery. The battery needs to be LOAD tested. Pull the battery, take it to autozone or Oreilly, they can test it for free. They can ALSO test the starter, and the alternator for FREE.

My initial post, #1, shows the battery test. I have a tester at home. They had asked me to bring in the starter, but I would have to remove it. The starting sounds very strong to me. I also feel the alternator is ok since the battery is kept charged when I run the car. From the much I know about cars, I feel the starter, alternator and battery are fine. I may be misunderstanding something in the system, which is why I always come here you all with better knowledge. I just gave another battery a full charge. Will swap that to see what happens.

A good scanner will show the pressure at the fuel rail. You can also check long term fuel trims. If you don't have a good scanner, now is the time to buy one. And don't skimp out, spend the $200-400 for something quality with multiple functions. If you aren't willing to put in this work just drop it off at the shop....

Got a better scanner than what I already have. I am returning it for another better one. This will take sometime to get to me. Buying such from town here in Anchorage, Alaska, gets very pricey; just like everything else. I may just brave the cold outside to do a fuel pressure test. Doing that inside the garage will be a no-no, with the furnace in there.

 

[BillG]

I may just brave the cold outside to do a fuel pressure test. Doing that inside the garage will be a no-no, with the furnace in there.

Why do you think this will be a problem? Assuming you don't have a gas leak, I see no real issues. Maybe if the tail pipe is vented right out at the furnace, there may be an issue, but you don't need to run it long.

 

[ericreyn]

Why do you think this will be a problem? Assuming you don't have a gas leak, I see no real issues. Maybe if the tail pipe is vented right out at the furnace, there may be an issue, but you don't need to run it long.

The furnace wouldn't concern me at all but I looked a bit at mine and I don't see any easy way to check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail at least. It would seem they have made this more of a challenge than some of the other vehicles I have tested. One of them had a Schrader valve on it, that was easy.

And yes the more advanced scan tools can do this but you are talking about the option 3 ones Bill mentioned here . I am seriously thinking about getting a xtool d7or d8 . These appear to open up a whole world of functionality beyond what I have now.

 

[bencahill]

The furnace wouldn't concern me at all but I looked a bit at mine and I don't see any easy way to check the fuel pressure at the fuel rail at least. It would seem they have made this more of a challenge than some of the other vehicles I have tested. One of them had a Schrader valve on it, that was easy.

I recently checked the fuel pressure on my 09 LE (different engine, but I'm guessing the same fuel line setup) by ordering this item and following the instructions in this YouTube video

And yes the more advanced scan tools can do this but you are talking about the option 3 ones Bill mentioned here . I am seriously thinking about getting a xtool d7or d8 . These appear to open up a whole world of functionality beyond what I have now.

Interesting. I got the impression that checking the fuel pressure from a scan tool was not possible on this vehicle from a mechanic's YouTube video.

 

[ericreyn]

Interesting. I got the impression that checking the fuel pressure from a scan tool was not possible on this vehicle from a mechanic's YouTube video.
[/QUOTE]

Might be true. Its possable on other and or newer vehicle's. Scotty Kilmer was checking one out, the d8 i think. It was an older f250 but it showed the fuel pressure. The car care nut was impressed with it as well, he's that toyota mechanic that posts many useful videos. It opens my eyes alot compared to what I have. I haven't bought one yet but might, its so far beyond what I have at the moment. But also the odds you might actually need this tool are rather slim. One trip to the dealer that might be avoided by having it could cover the cost easily.

 

[oka]

I recently checked the fuel pressure on my 09 LE (different engine, but I'm guessing the same fuel line setup) by ordering this item and following the instructions in this YouTube video

For the Quick Connector, guess the 6mm ID means for a tight connection. Wouldn't a clamp be needed, considering the pressure of the fuel? Guess the 6mm tightness on the 8.9mm would be tight enough for the fuel pressure.

 

[bencahill]

For the Quick Connector, guess the 6mm ID means for a tight connection. Wouldn't a clamp be needed, considering the pressure of the fuel? Guess the 6mm tightness on the 8.9mm would be tight enough for the fuel pressure.

Yes, I used small hose clamps to make a good connection. I don't understand those numbers either. I just know that the 7.89mm quick connector is the right size to connect to the fuel system on this van.