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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The Buick Century is rising from the ashes to "raise the bar" for minivans :)

I am duly appalled by the aesthetics of the B.U.G (Butt-Ugly Grill) face. The side view is unnecessarily complicated, but the one-piece instrument cluster and infotainment screen is probably the slickest I have seen, but it looks like the HVAC controls are touchscreen w/o tactile feedback, which I don't like.

The powertrain is a mild hybrid with a 4 cylinder 2.0L turbo ICE, so I am guessing the peak power and torque will be comparable to those of the Gen 4 Sienna.

View Photos of the Buick Century Minivan (caranddriver.com)

Wheel Automotive parking light Tire Vehicle Car
 

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GM China is using the same platform as for the prior 2 generations as well as its long-discontinued US counterparts - Buick Terraza, Chevy Uplander, Saturn Relay. The Pontiac Aztek was a variant with hinged doors.
 

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Maybe it is nice, but it will never be the sales leader. I am buying Toyotas, and most people will.
But isn't Honda Odyssey the sales leader for mini vans?

In the end, a Buick is still a GM. That doesn't make it on my first or second list. I go with Sienna, Odyssey then maybe GM then Kia (but it to ugly for me eyes). Don't even want to talk about Chrysler.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
But isn't Honda Odyssey the sales leader for mini vans?

In the end, a Buick is still a GM. That doesn't make it on my first or second list. I go with Sienna, Odyssey then maybe GM then Kia (but it to ugly for me eyes). Don't even want to talk about Chrysler.
The irony is that Chrysler Pacifica is by far the best selling minivan in 2022. Also it happens to be the least controversial minivan appearance-wise, and it gets a high praise for the interior comfort. Also it's the only minivan that its manufacturer bothered to equip with a plug. Yet a Chrysler is a Chrysler

The Sienna is the second, and the Odyssey is a remote third in the 2022 sales.

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The irony is that Chrysler Pacifica is by far the best selling minivan in 2022. Also it happens to be the least controversial minivan appearance-wise, and it gets a high praise for the interior comfort. Also it's the only minivan that its manufacturer bothered to equip with a plug. Yet a Chrysler is a Chrysler

The Sienna is the second, and the Odyssey is a remote third in the 2022 sales.

View attachment 59525
Yes this year but historical I think winner sales figure goes to the Odyssey.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Yes this year but historical I think winner sales figure goes to the Odyssey.
I have looked the figures up all the way to 2014 and found that these were the annual bestsellers in the past 8 years. Couldn't find earlier figures in the same place, and was too lazy to research in earnest :)

2021 Sienna
2020 Pacifica
2019 Grand Caravan
2018 Odyssey
2017 Grand Caravan
2016 Sienna
2015 Sienna
2014 Town & County

This broadly corresponds to the spread of the minivans I see on the roads; the Chrysler/Dodge ones constitute probably 40% of all the observed units. Siennas make about 30%, Odysseys about 20%, and the balance are Hyundai/Kia models, with just a few Nissans and older Fords. And still, a Chrysler is a Chrysler: a brand related to Fiat and merely 2 models away from extinction, unfortunately.
 

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The irony is that Chrysler Pacifica is by far the best selling minivan in 2022. Also it happens to be the least controversial minivan appearance-wise, and it gets a high praise for the interior comfort. Also it's the only minivan that its manufacturer bothered to equip with a plug. Yet a Chrysler is a Chrysler

The Sienna is the second, and the Odyssey is a remote third in the 2022 sales.

View attachment 59525
I had Pacifica's cousin the Grand Caravan. It was rolling pile of crap. Why would Pacifica be any different. The only Chrysler that are solid are the Ram HD. Same with Ford and GM. Buy their HDs and ignore the rest.
 

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But isn't Honda Odyssey the sales leader for mini vans?

In the end, a Buick is still a GM. That doesn't make it on my first or second list. I go with Sienna, Odyssey then maybe GM then Kia (but it to ugly for me eyes). Don't even want to talk about Chrysler.
Odyssey was but won't be anymore. They better make a hybrid if they want to stay in the game. Nobody likes that thirsty V6 Odyssey. The world has changed. Gas prices are through the roof.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Yes the gen 3 was more popular than Odyssey but early on it was the Odyssey that had most sold.

I forgot where I got this info.

View attachment 59526
The numbers from this source look "in range", but they are focusing on Odyssey and Sienna only, and therefore not showing that in 2014 and 2017 the Chrysler/Dodge vans were above both Sienna and Odyssey in the sales rankings. This is at least partially due to the fact that Chryslers and Dodge supplied most work/fleet minivans, probably because of the price advantage.

I also noticed that in wealthier areas the proportion of Siennas and Odysseys tends to be higher.

Odyssey was but won't be anymore. They better make a hybrid if they want to stay in the game. Nobody likes that thirsty V6 Odyssey. The world has changed. Gas prices are through the roof.
Honda does not have a hybrid powertrain to fit the North American Odyssey, and I don't think they are working on one. Some people will buy the Odyssey because of the brand loyalty, and because in general it's a great, roomy and comfy minivan overall (if you don't need AWD, good fuel economy, and don't mind the drooping rear's optics).

There is, however, the "international" Odyssey minivan, which is quite a bit smaller than the North American version. I believe this version has a "sport hybrid" powertrain, based on a 2.0L ICE, but I don't know what the specs are, or whether it's really international or it is only made in sold in China. In the US market it could probably be successful, competing against smaller 3-row vehicles like the Out/Highlander or Sorento.
 

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The numbers from this source look "in range", but they are focusing on Odyssey and Sienna only, and therefore not showing that in 2014 and 2017 the Chrysler/Dodge vans were above both Sienna and Odyssey in the sales rankings. This is at least partially due to the fact that Chryslers and Dodge supplied most work/fleet minivans, probably because of the price advantage.

I also noticed that in wealthier areas the proportion of Siennas and Odysseys tends to be higher.



Honda does not have a hybrid powertrain to fit the North American Odyssey, and I don't think they are working on one. Some people will buy the Odyssey because of the brand loyalty, and because in general it's a great, roomy and comfy minivan overall (if you don't need AWD, good fuel economy, and don't mind the drooping rear's optics).

There is, however, the "international" Odyssey minivan, which is quite a bit smaller than the North American version. I believe this version has a "sport hybrid" powertrain, based on a 2.0L ICE, but I don't know what the specs are, or whether it's really international or it is only made in sold in China. In the US market it could probably be successful, competing against smaller 3-row vehicles like the Out/Highlander or Sorento.
Brand loyalty alone is not going to help Honda. Look at me, I was a Chrysler and Dodge guy. The Sienna simply blew my mind, so I bought it.
 

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I'd argue and bet that the Pacifica is highly used as a rental vehicle and that would account for a huge amount of sales. Everywhere I rented a mini-van it would be a Pacifica.
Pacificas and Grand Caravans have the advantage that Ford Explorers have. It would not be fair to say Ford Explorer sells more than the Highlander. Because the law enforcement drive thousands of Explorers.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Brand loyalty alone is not going to help Honda. Look at me, I was a Chrysler and Dodge guy. The Sienna simply blew my mind, so I bought it.
As my most insightful wife said, "You had always wanted a minivan, but couldn't find one to suit your needs". I need at least 6 seats, a large cargo space, a hybrid powertrain and AWD. The sliding 2nd row doors, the roof rails and the moonroof are a bonus.
 

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Well if you want the high class equivalent of this buick look up the Toyota Alphard. Kinda of jealous

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Well if you want the high class equivalent of this buick look up the Toyota Alphard. Kinda of jealous

I think externally this has been a little .... over-designed? The nose looks like it has been ripped off by flak

Battle-Damaged B-17 Flying Fortresses: Nose hits (daveswarbirds.com)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Pacificas and Grand Caravans have the advantage that Ford Explorers have. It would not be fair to say Ford Explorer sells more than the Highlander. Because the law enforcement drive thousands of Explorers.
I think that Chrysler (now sure how or why) has not been recently affected by the "shortages" quite as hard as Toyota and Ford have. Gosh, I even had a few emails and phone calls from a Chrystler dealership, offering me to test-drive the PHEV Pacifica. This alone could explain why in 2022 the sales of the Pacifica surged, at the expense of those Siennas that simply couldn't have been manufactured fast enough.

Also I don't know if I would put the Highlander and the Explorer into the same category size-wise. The Explorer is a couple of inches longer, taller, and wider, which IMO makes it 1 size larger than the Highlander. I believe the forthcoming Grand Highlander will be the same size as the Explorer and the Grand Cherokee.
 

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Honda does not have a hybrid powertrain to fit the North American Odyssey, and I don't think they are working on one. Some people will buy the Odyssey because of the brand loyalty, and because in general it's a great, roomy and comfy minivan overall (if you don't need AWD, good fuel economy, and don't mind the drooping rear's optics).
I considered an Odyssey, as I was happy with my prior 2013 Honda Pilot, a 2007 Honda Accord, my ex-wife's 2013 Honda CR-V, and the 1991 Honda Accord I drove when I was a teen (until I crashed it). But reports of transmission issues in the Odyssey and the apparent reliability of the Sienna lead me to buying my current 2014 Sienna LE when I was in the market for a minivan this spring.

I do think the "conventional" styling of the Pacifica is better than the new Sienna, and I wonder if that's a factor in some of the sales of the Pacifica over the Sienna. Like you, I also suspect Crystler has avoided some of the supply chain issues, and simply has more availability than the Sienna, especially considering the wait periods I see people report here for new Siennas and the markups they can support, and this may be a larger factor. In fact I'd bet it is, as I can't see styling alone being a reason people would pass up on the mileage of the Sienna. Well...unless they really want the PHEV, since it does have enough range for a lot or most of a typical commute to be on battery. I really think Toyota is missing out not offering the Sienna in a PHEV model.
 
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