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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I wished Toyota came out with a Sienna that has v8 and 4x4 transmission from 4runner. IMO, it's the ultimate vehicle:
  • Carry up to 8 passengers
  • Carry lots of cargo including 4x8 plywood sheets and not have to worry about rope and/or rain with room to carry other things unlike a pickup by folding down the 3rd row and remove the 2nd row.
  • For the off road fans, can do lift and minor mods for bad ass look
 

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I wished Toyota came out with a Sienna that has v8 and 4x4 transmission from 4runner. IMO, it's the ultimate vehicle:
  • Carry up to 8 passengers
  • Carry lots of cargo including 4x8 plywood sheets and not have to worry about rope and/or rain with room to carry other things unlike a pickup by folding down the 3rd row and remove the 2nd row.
  • For the off road fans, can do lift and minor mods for bad ass look
Your wish is closer to a Sequoia or Land Cruiser. v8 will never make it (past and future) to the Sienna for 2 reasons. 1) it will not meet Toyota's CAFE goals. 2) Sienna has always had a transverse engine layout. This is very different from the 4-runner, Land-Cruiser which has a longitudinal engine/transmission layout.

You might like the Toyota Hi-Ace.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Your wish is closer to a Sequoia or Land Cruiser. v8 will never make it (past and future) to the Sienna for 2 reasons. 1) it will not meet Toyota's CAFE goals. 2) Sienna has always had a transverse engine layout. This is very different from the 4-runner, Land-Cruiser which has a longitudinal engine/transmission layout.

You might like the Toyota Hi-Ace.
I don't think any Toyota SUV has the same cargo capacity as Sienna when you remove / fold down the 2nd and 3rd row seat. As for engine layout, I don't think it's a problem as long as the engine bay is big enough. If they can build AWD, they should be able to build a 4x4. Regarding the Hi-Ace, the late model is too boxy and it's still 3.5 V6. A v8 4x4 is good for towing and going off-road. I like the 3rd gen Sienna, specifically pre 2016/2017. That front grille makes the vehicle look like it's frowning.
 

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I don't think any Toyota SUV has the same cargo capacity as Sienna when you remove / fold down the 2nd and 3rd row seat. As for engine layout, I don't think it's a problem as long as the engine bay is big enough. If they can build AWD, they should be able to build a 4x4. Regarding the Hi-Ace, the late model is too boxy and it's still 3.5 V6. A v8 4x4 is good for towing and going off-road. I like the 3rd gen Sienna, specifically pre 2016/2017. That front grille makes the vehicle look like it's frowning.
The 4th gen Sienna does not have a "channel" for the front to rear driveshaft. Also the firewall does not have the room to fit a longitudinal engine+transmission. The AWD sienna was designed to have an electric motor to drive the rear wheels. IF you really wanted to spend a lot of $$ to convert the Sienna - it might be easier to make a full EV Sienna than a v8 4x4 that you are thinking of. Of course, if $$ was no object - you can almost do anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
The 4th gen Sienna does not have a "channel" for the front to rear driveshaft. Also the firewall does not have the room to fit a longitudinal engine+transmission. The AWD sienna was designed to have an electric motor to drive the rear wheels. IF you really wanted to spend a lot of $$ to convert the Sienna - it might be easier to make a full EV Sienna than a v8 4x4 that you are thinking of. Of course, if $$ was no object - you can almost do anything.
I don't like the body style of the 4th gen either. I'll think I'll do an engine + transmission swap like this on our 2015 XLE. (I wished I saw this video a couple of years back to show a trailer shop sales rep, probably manager/owner, that is a real "soccer Mom's car"... :D )
 

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Well, not to be argumentative, but I own both a 4Runner and a 2020 AWD Sienna.

The 4Runner has a V6. Depending on the year it's the same engine that is in the last generation of pure ICE Siennas (depending on the year it's the 2GR-FKS).

The transmission question is another issue. the 4Runner has a 4WD system that is a manual shift. Meaning you get either 2WD Rear or symmetrical 4WD. It's great for the trail, in snow and other nasty conditions but sucks for the neighborhood and grocery store. The Sienna has AWD controlled by an electromagnetic 'clutch' so mostly it's FWD but the rear engages during slippage and acceleration. Both systems have their pros and cons, what I really want is locking diffs and and a locking transfer case on the AWD system.

Also, I had the Toyota V8 in my TRD Pro Tundra, it was not easy on the wallet. 15mpg was generous with a light foot, and it didn't really shine in the torque or HP department. It was an old an tired design that would easily last 500,000 miles without an oil change but it was not up to modern standards. Even the Tundras ditched the V8 for the turbo 6 or hybrid assist platform.

I'm waiting for HKS to get a turbo kit together for the direct injected 2GR just to give me a bit more power and i'll be happy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Well, not to be argumentative, but I own both a 4Runner and a 2020 AWD Sienna.

The 4Runner has a V6. Depending on the year it's the same engine that is in the last generation of pure ICE Siennas (depending on the year it's the 2GR-FKS).

The transmission question is another issue. the 4Runner has a 4WD system that is a manual shift. Meaning you get either 2WD Rear or symmetrical 4WD. It's great for the trail, in snow and other nasty conditions but sucks for the neighborhood and grocery store. The Sienna has AWD controlled by an electromagnetic 'clutch' so mostly it's FWD but the rear engages during slippage and acceleration. Both systems have their pros and cons, what I really want is locking diffs and and a locking transfer case on the AWD system.

Also, I had the Toyota V8 in my TRD Pro Tundra, it was not easy on the wallet. 15mpg was generous with a light foot, and it didn't really shine in the torque or HP department. It was an old an tired design that would easily last 500,000 miles without an oil change but it was not up to modern standards. Even the Tundras ditched the V8 for the turbo 6 or hybrid assist platform.

I'm waiting for HKS to get a turbo kit together for the direct injected 2GR just to give me a bit more power and i'll be happy.
Yeah, my oldest brother told me he loved that locking differential on specific models of the Land Cruiser. But it had lousy MPG because of the 4 speed auto (being old model), he sold it.
 

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I wished Toyota came out with a Sienna that has v8 and 4x4 transmission from 4runner. IMO, it's the ultimate vehicle:
  • Carry up to 8 passengers
  • Carry lots of cargo including 4x8 plywood sheets and not have to worry about rope and/or rain with room to carry other things unlike a pickup by folding down the 3rd row and remove the 2nd row.
  • For the off road fans, can do lift and minor mods for bad ass look
Unfortunately, there is yet another thing that would need to change for Sienna to do all these good things: the 2nd row must be made easily removable, otherwise your 4x8 plywood sheets won't fit on the floor and would have to be tilted to lean on the tops of the 2nd row seats. I tried it and it was very un-elegant.

BTW, I don't think the 4Runner - or, for that matter, any new Toyota vehicle - comes with a V8. Looks like the V8 is going the way of the four-engine airliners.

I'd take the RAV4 Prime's powertrain (if it would fit into the Sienna) instead :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Unfortunately, there is yet another thing that would need to change for Sienna to do all these good things: the 2nd row must be made easily removable, otherwise your 4x8 plywood sheets won't fit on the floor and would have to be tilted to lean on the tops of the 2nd row seats. I tried it and it was very un-elegant.

BTW, I don't think the 4Runner - or, for that matter, any new Toyota vehicle - comes with a V8. Looks like the V8 is going the way of the four-engine airliners.

I'd take the RAV4 Prime's powertrain (if it would fit into the Sienna) instead :)
I don't know how heavy is the 2nd row for the 4th gen, but the 3rd gen 8 seater is OK for me by myself (I'm more than 50 years old). Driver side passenger kind of cumbersome because of the base for the center seat.

As for the V8, that's very unfortunate from a reliable power to tow or go off road perspective. It seems Toyota going full hybrid in all its line up. I'm very curious if anyone ever considers doing full EV motors with battery and then run a small motorcycle engine up 600 CC with a gear box connected to several alternators to generate the missing electricity when needed.
 

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I don't know how heavy is the 2nd row for the 4th gen, but the 3rd gen 8 seater is OK for me by myself (I'm more than 50 years old). Driver side passenger kind of cumbersome because of the base for the center seat.
In Gen 3 you could remove the seats by simply pulling up the handle. So, the weight of the seat was the biggest obstacle to that process. By contrast, in Gen 4 the 2nd row is not intended to be removed. Of course you still could take them out, but it wouldn't be as quick and easy as pulling a handle, and you'd need more tools than just your bare hands. As per the video below, if you don't follow certain precautions, you might even set the airbags off.

(3) Removing 2021 Sienna's "Non-Removable" Seats (UPDATE IN DESCRIPTION) - YouTube

Also there was a discussion somewhere about the car computer going into airbag alarm mode because it doesn't detect the 2nd row airbags. There is a solution for it, too, but it requires "airbag simulator" doodads to be installed. i hope I am remembering this correctly.

As for the V8, that's very unfortunate from a reliable power to tow or go off road perspective. It seems Toyota going full hybrid in all its line up. I'm very curious if anyone ever considers doing full EV motors with battery and then run a small motorcycle engine up 600 CC with a gear box connected to several alternators to generate the missing electricity when needed.
They used such a system in BMW's i3 extended range EV :). Toyota and its subsidiaries manufacture a lineup of very compact and light 3-cyl engines that are used in kei cars in Asia and in city cars in Europe. Those would be ideal range extenders, but I don't believe Toyota is thinking in this direction.
 

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BTW, I don't think the 4Runner - or, for that matter, any new Toyota vehicle - comes with a V8. Looks like the V8 is going the way of the four-engine airliners.
Yeah, but the 3.5 L turbocharged V6 in the Tundra has more horsepower and torque than the 5.3 L V8 my 2020 Silverado had.

Also there was a discussion somewhere about the car computer going into airbag alarm mode because it doesn't detect the 2nd row airbags. There is a solution for it, too, but it requires "airbag simulator" doodads to be installed. i hope I am remembering this correctly.
Yup. It’ll throw an SRS airbag fault with the 2nd row seat airbags disconnected. This should not stop the airbag system from working, as that would be insane if it did, though dealers will tell you it stops it from working. But more importantly, if it’s throwing a light for the SRS system, you won’t know if something else stops working, since the light is already on.

The airbag simulators solve this by making the system think the airbags are installed, so the light doesn’t come on because they are disconnected.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In Gen 3 you could remove the seats by simply pulling up the handle. So, the weight of the seat was the biggest obstacle to that process. By contrast, in Gen 4 the 2nd row is not intended to be removed. Of course you still could take them out, but it wouldn't be as quick and easy as pulling a handle, and you'd need more tools than just your bare hands. As per the video below, if you don't follow certain precautions, you might even set the airbags off.

(3) Removing 2021 Sienna's "Non-Removable" Seats (UPDATE IN DESCRIPTION) - YouTube

Also there was a discussion somewhere about the car computer going into airbag alarm mode because it doesn't detect the 2nd row airbags. There is a solution for it, too, but it requires "airbag simulator" doodads to be installed. i hope I am remembering this correctly.



They used such a system in BMW's i3 extended range EV :). Toyota and its subsidiaries manufacture a lineup of very compact and light 3-cyl engines that are used in kei cars in Asia and in city cars in Europe. Those would be ideal range extenders, but I don't believe Toyota is thinking in this direction.
Thanks for sharing the video regarding the 2nd row for 4th gen. Looks like I'm keeping our 3rd gen forever. I'm going to start looking into hybrid conversion of dual/quad EV motors and (pseudo) locking differential to be supplemented by 600 CC motorcycle engine with gearbox driving a few alternators.
 

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This works for us - one of each. The Sienna for space and comfort and able to handle snow covered roads and the 4Runner when the road ends.
Wheel Tire Land vehicle Car Vehicle
 

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This works for us - one of each. The Sienna for space and comfort and able to handle snow covered roads and the 4Runner when the road ends. View attachment 58467
Looking at your Gen 3 .... I would love my Gen 4 to have the same van-like nose section and normally sized 3nd row windows.

Yeah, but the 3.5 L turbocharged V6 in the Tundra has more horsepower and torque than the 5.3 L V8 my 2020 Silverado had.
That's right, the V8 was a necessity, as were the 4-engined long range airliners :). Today V8 is not a necessity, and neither is the V6, strictly speaking. With the electrification coming I think large gasoline engines will be completely squeezed out of mainstream.

Thanks for sharing the video regarding the 2nd row for 4th gen. Looks like I'm keeping our 3rd gen forever. I'm going to start looking into hybrid conversion of dual/quad EV motors and (pseudo) locking differential to be supplemented by 600 CC motorcycle engine with gearbox driving a few alternators.
Now, this is going to be a very, very big project ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
This works for us - one of each. The Sienna for space and comfort and able to handle snow covered roads and the 4Runner when the road ends.
Unfortunately, that wouldn't work for us.
  • Where we live now, we no longer need a second vehicle.
  • Limited available parking in our townhouse community. The garage is barely big enough for mid size sedan.
  • Unnecessary additional expense for registration and insurance.
Besides, I like the look of that lifted Sienna for off road.
Now, this is going to be a very, very big project ....
I may be able to simplify a bit by taking EV motors from two total loss Toyota hybrids.
 
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