Interesting. I thought the thing can go 500 miles on a full thank. That's what my van app says every time after I filled up unless I am msitaken.

 

It depends on how you drive, and a lot of other criteria.

From my unscientific observations:

Fuel light goes on when you have 4G left in the tank.

It shows DTE 0 at 3G left in the tank.

It sputters to a stop at about 1G to 1.5G left in the tank (More close to 1G I think on level roads like I had. Road slope may affect one way or the other. )

 

Interesting. I thought the thing can go 500 miles on a full thank. That's what my van app says every time after I filled up unless I am mistaken.

On Fuelly the Gen4 Sienna (MY 2021, 2022, 2023, but no 2024's yet) averages 32.2 mpg. With 1-2 gals reserve this is 515-547 mi/tank. But there are "outliers" who get 24 mpg and those who get 42 mpg, and the exact size of the reserve is hard to determine, so YMMV literally from 400-ish to 700+.

It depends on how you drive, and a lot of other criteria.

From my unscientific observations:

Fuel light goes on when you have 4G left in the tank.

It shows DTE 0 at 3G left in the tank.

It sputters to a stop at about 1G to 1.5G left in the tank (More close to 1G I think on level roads like I had. Road slope may affect one way or the other. )

I think there may be something different about your van. Quoting from memory, the general consensus on this forum that the Empty light comes up at 1-2 gallons left rather than 4. I usually fill up at half-tank if I can, but on a few occasions we added close to 16.5 gallons with the needle still being half a notch away from the Empty position on the analog gauge.

The limp mode is to protect your high pressure fuel pump. Its lubricated by the gasoline, and running it without gas in it can damage it severely, which could mean having to replace both the high pressure pumps on the front side of your engine. The High pressure fuel pump is about $900 from toyota, no aftermarket units yet, and there is 2 on your van. Its also not that old of a pump, only around since 2018 on the camry hybrid, so its unlikely you can find a used one that you will trust.

That said,




My "empty" light comes on when the DTE hits 30 miles left, and will say "please refuel" when it hits 0. it doesn't actually matter how much is left in the tank, remember, the DTE/fuel gauge in the van is not tied directly to the fuel level sensor in tank, but is instead a reflection of the calculated based on last tank MPG plus adjustments for the current tank, plus its last check of the fuel level from the last turn on(I think). It will light up the light at 30 miles left on the DTE no matter how much is left in the tank. If the current MPG is extremely bad compared to the last tank, the DTE calculations might not be correct, and you might have gone thru more gas without knowing it. The opposite could also be true, where the DTE hits 30, tells you to get gas, but you only put 5 gallons in because the DTE calculation was not correct.

and for reference, my DTE light usually comes on when I have about 4 gallons left in the tank, which is at about 30 miles, and then the DTE hits 0 when I have 3 gallons left. This is extremely consistent for me tho, because I drive the same 385 mile trip every day, so the van has a lot of consistent trips. I still log all my fillups on fuelly, its not hard to find me.

To quote Alice from Wonderland, this is curioser and curioser. Maybe it's Mr. Sparkollz who is an anomaly.

Or, I simply do not have enough empirical data, because I almost never wait for the needle to go anywhere near E, especially after the Colonial pipeline hacking event. One thing, though, I know for sure that when according to DTE I should have about half-tank (miles to empty = miles traveled), the actual amount of gas tends to be between 8 and 8.5 gals. The Total Average mpg calculator is almost always too optimistic, sometimes by as much as 7%.

 

...


I think there may be something different about your van. Quoting from memory, the general consensus on this forum that the Empty light comes up at 1-2 gallons left rather than 4. I usually fill up at half-tank if I can, but on a few occasions we added close to 16.5 gallons with the needle still being half a notch away from the Empty position on the analog gauge.

We have two misbehaving vans, or at least one of them(mine!).

I consistently see "Low/get Fuel" message with 4G left. DTE at this point is about recent Miles Per Gallon - about 25 - 35. (May be I am mixing up my Yellow Gas pump sign with Low/get Fuel message. )

Next, DTE goes to zero with 3G left in the tank. This kind of matchs Toyota's instructions to put at least 3G if you run out of gas.

When you did 16.5G fill ups earlier, you came very close to running out!

Let's see what others are seeing.

 

Another interesting takeaway:

I may not have technically ran out of gas.

The reason I say this is that reading up on DTCs took me to "Limping Mode". I wouldn't not have imagined something like this existed. Don't we love our advanced technology!!

Google has a lot of read on Limping Mode. Essentially, it lets you crawl out of harms way instead of being dead in the water. That is exactly what I did.

Push comes to shove, I could have crawled (at 5mph or so) to a gas station 20 miles away, I think. I still had about a gallon in the tank. This would be on level ground.

 

Running your vehicle out of gas is not some interesting experiment. It's a neglect that can damage your vehicle.

 

I don't recommend anyone intentionally run out of gas. At the same time, I am not going to lose sleep over it if I did again. I know nothing about cars so I don't expect anyone to agree with me.

IMHO, Car technology has come very far. I am guessing there are at least 2 million Toyotas out there with same drivetrain, may be 4M or even more. If running out of gas meant certain damages, we would be hearing all about it everywhere. It would have been spelled out in the manual too. If that was the case, It won't be too hard for Toyota to cutoff the engine below certain threshold. I am going to put a little more faith in the system and believe that it is in Toyota's best interest to not build something so fragile. I know this is not apple to apple comparison but would you believe if someone told you that if an electric car runs out of battery, it could mean thousands in repairs?

Just my .02.

And if all fails, that's why I got Platinum warranty.

 

the warranty won't cover a fuel pump broken from running out of gas, and they will know it ran out of gas because the piston of the pumps will be massively scored and damaged, while the metal flakes will get into your high pressure injectors and those and all the lines will need to be replaced. you might not notice it now, but that extra wear will most certainly show itself a lot sooner than any other van that didn't run out of gas.

 

All primed to do it again, LOL?

If one does not care about possible damage to the vehicle then consider how having a car die on the road, particularly in the insanity of I-95 around DC, is a threat to the safety of others. Due to the glibness of this entire line of discussion I'm refraining from considering the safety of the careless.

Stupidity on the roads keeps rising, seemingly more with every passing day. Don't add to it, let alone bask in it.

 

I am not basking in it. My bad if it came out sounding like that. This was just a miscalculation (or not being smart and ignoring flashing signs right in front of me ).

If anything, takeaway from my experience is that Toyota has designed this thing to put some distance between you and trouble. I got about 2milles after first alert, and another quarter mile in limp mode. That's all I am hoping someone takes away from this - If they end up in similar situation, I hope they remember to not panic and put the built in features to use.

 

The internet is fun, isn't it?

Nice report. I don't have a hybrid, but it's useful information for others.

Reading about the gallons in tank, I'm reminded of my former 1990 Sea-Ray boat. The manual said the gas tank held 32 gallons, and 30 gallons were usable. Much clearer indication of what capacity of the tank could actually be used. Of course, for most people, the usable capacity is all that matters. If you cannot get the last two gallons out of the tank, the only time it matters is when the factory fills it and when the tank is scrapped.

I've ran out of gas twice myself. Once on an old Jeep Wrangler I bought when I was younger and stupider, which had a mostly broken gas gauge. Second time was with a 2020 Silverado 1500 towing a 29' hardsided camper at 75 MPH into a strong headwind. I was getting about 6 MPG, when the truck by itself would normally get 19-20 at the same speed. Like you, my quick mental math was wrong, and it turns out I could not get to the gas station I was intending to get to. I got to the top of the overpass over the road I needed to turn onto that had a gas station, and the engine shuddered a bit as it started misfiring, then caught, then died completely as I was rolling down the exit ramp. I shifted to neutral and rolled all the way down and got off onto the shoulder just after turning right on exiting the ramp. It was also 95 °F that day, the quarter mile walk to the gas station to buy a gas can and gas and get back to the truck was NOT fun. My wife at the time was NOT happy with me.

I also have almost ran an EV out of battery. I bought a 2023 Chevy Bolt last November. I took it to my gf's family's house for thanksgiving less than two weeks into ownership. I calculated I had enough range to make the round trip, with what I thought was a conservative estimate. I forgot to consider the temp drop at night, and when we left it was significantly colder. On the way back I kept watching how my estimated range kept creeping closer and closer to the range left to get home by GPS. I stopped to try to find a charger, but the DC fast charger I found was out of order. I tried to use a slow charger to get myself a 10-20 mile buffer, but discovered I had no clue how to activate/pay for the charger. And so here I was, in the middle of the night, in 20 °F weather, sitting in a parking lot. I could try to figure out the charger, but if I failed, I was burning battery keeping the car heated while trying to figure it out. So I made the decision to keep going. As I got to the outskirts of the city, the car switched from saying 10 miles range to saying LOW (I was 8 miles out). I slowed down more, and a few miles later got "propulsion power reduced". I shut off the heat entirely, along with the heated seats and steering wheel. We shivered as I drove the last few miles to home even slower, with a windshield that was starting to fog up. Did make it home, but it was close. And that would likely have required a tow, because most roadside assistance don't have portable EV chargers yet.

On the Silverado, I started carrying a 2.5 gallon gas can every time I towed our big camper, and changed fuel-ups to pretend that 1/4 tank was empty (I also pretended I was not carrying a gas can). On the Bolt, I researched and downloaded several apps that will help me locate, pay, and activate chargers. And with that trip and now one winter under my belt, I'll have a much more accurate means of estimating my range depending on temperature, and I won't forget to remember temperature changes during the trip or from day/night either.

Shit happens. You make mistakes, you learn from mistakes. Please keep sharing them to help other people learn from them too. I really, really prefer to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than my own, and I appreciate you posting this as well, even if it does not directly apply to me. I also try to post my own mistakes so others can learn from me.

 

Headsup, don't be surprised if you get a DM from my wife. I suspect she is trying to stage an intervention, and you're in DC area already! Apparently, her opinion of me is same as yours.

And thus spake the Lord unto man in a mighty voice: "Behold, I shall give unto thee Wife, so thou mayest learn about thine imperfections".

(a loose quotation from the "Appalachian Apocrypha")

The internet is fun, isn't it?

Nice report. I don't have a hybrid, but it's useful information for others.

Reading about the gallons in tank, I'm reminded of my former 1990 Sea-Ray boat. The manual said the gas tank held 32 gallons, and 30 gallons were usable. Much clearer indication of what capacity of the tank could actually be used. Of course, for most people, the usable capacity is all that matters. If you cannot get the last two gallons out of the tank, the only time it matters is when the factory fills it and when the tank is scrapped.

I've ran out of gas twice myself. Once on an old Jeep Wrangler I bought when I was younger and stupider, which had a mostly broken gas gauge. Second time was with a 2020 Silverado 1500 towing a 29' hardsided camper at 75 MPH into a strong headwind. I was getting about 6 MPG, when the truck by itself would normally get 19-20 at the same speed. Like you, my quick mental math was wrong, and it turns out I could not get to the gas station I was intending to get to. I got to the top of the overpass over the road I needed to turn onto that had a gas station, and the engine shuddered a bit as it started misfiring, then caught, then died completely as I was rolling down the exit ramp. I shifted to neutral and rolled all the way down and got off onto the shoulder just after turning right on exiting the ramp. It was also 95 °F that day, the quarter mile walk to the gas station to buy a gas can and gas and get back to the truck was NOT fun. My wife at the time was NOT happy with me.

I also have almost ran an EV out of battery. I bought a 2023 Chevy Bolt last November. I took it to my gf's family's house for thanksgiving less than two weeks into ownership. I calculated I had enough range to make the round trip, with what I thought was a conservative estimate. I forgot to consider the temp drop at night, and when we left it was significantly colder. On the way back I kept watching how my estimated range kept creeping closer and closer to the range left to get home by GPS. I stopped to try to find a charger, but the DC fast charger I found was out of order. I tried to use a slow charger to get myself a 10-20 mile buffer, but discovered I had no clue how to activate/pay for the charger. And so here I was, in the middle of the night, in 20 °F weather, sitting in a parking lot. I could try to figure out the charger, but if I failed, I was burning battery keeping the car heated while trying to figure it out. So I made the decision to keep going. As I got to the outskirts of the city, the car switched from saying 10 miles range to saying LOW (I was 8 miles out). I slowed down more, and a few miles later got "propulsion power reduced". I shut off the heat entirely, along with the heated seats and steering wheel. We shivered as I drove the last few miles to home even slower, with a windshield that was starting to fog up. Did make it home, but it was close. And that would likely have required a tow, because most roadside assistance don't have portable EV chargers yet.

On the Silverado, I started carrying a 2.5 gallon gas can every time I towed our big camper, and changed fuel-ups to pretend that 1/4 tank was empty (I also pretended I was not carrying a gas can). On the Bolt, I researched and downloaded several apps that will help me locate, pay, and activate chargers. And with that trip and now one winter under my belt, I'll have a much more accurate means of estimating my range depending on temperature, and I won't forget to remember temperature changes during the trip or from day/night either.

Shit happens. You make mistakes, you learn from mistakes. Please keep sharing them to help other people learn from them too. I really, really prefer to learn from other people's mistakes, rather than my own, and I appreciate you posting this as well, even if it does not directly apply to me. I also try to post my own mistakes so others can learn from me.

A Toyota forum is a safe enough place to present this multi-chapter cautionary tale. If you posted a "running out of juice 100 miles short of the advertised range" story like this on an EV forum the perennially triggered pack of "EV enthusiasts" would be barking at you for weeks. You would learn that you (a) Must have forgotten to charge the car, (b) Are in ignoramus who can't read the vertical thingy to the left of the speedometer, (c) Are a chatbot of the oil mafia, (d) Just making stuff up.

Interestingly enough, pretty much everyone kind of knows that cold weather, poor road conditions, interstate speeds, improperly inflated tires, lots of idling with the HVAC on etc. do reduce the driving range quite dramatically - regardless of the propulsion type. But this fact doesn't register as an emergency with the ICE-endowed vehicle owners, because the penalty for overestimating the driving range is usually insignificant, maybe 10 minutes and $20.00 of "stupid tax" at the gas station. But for EV owners finding a usable DCFC is still an adventure, 14 years into the LEAF era.

 

And thus spake the Lord unto man in a mighty voice: "Behold, I shall give unto thee Wife, so thou mayest learn about thine imperfections".

(a loose quotation from the "Appalachian Apocrypha")



A Toyota forum is a safe enough place to present this multi-chapter cautionary tale. If you posted a "running out of juice 100 miles short of the advertised range" story like this on an EV forum the perennially triggered pack of "EV enthusiasts" would be barking at you for weeks. You would learn that you (a) Must have forgotten to charge the car, (b) Are in ignoramus who can't read the vertical thingy to the left of the speedometer, (c) Are a chatbot of the oil mafia, (d) Just making stuff up.

Interestingly enough, pretty much everyone kind of knows that cold weather, poor road conditions, interstate speeds, improperly inflated tires, lots of idling with the HVAC on etc. do reduce the driving range quite dramatically - regardless of the propulsion type. But this fact doesn't register as an emergency with the ICE-endowed vehicle owners, because the penalty for overestimating the driving range is usually insignificant, maybe 10 minutes and $20.00 of "stupid tax" at the gas station. But for EV owners finding a usable DCFC is still an adventure, 14 years into the LEAF era.

The EV comparison is a poor one. There are plenty of gasoline stations with working pumps. If you get to 1/8 of a tank and start looking for one you'll surely find one before you run out. With an EV, you might bounce from one charging station to the next, travelling many miles, and find they're all broken.

Maybe I'm missing something. A hybrid Sienna does have a gas gauge, doesn't it, LOL.

 

Thanks for posting what happened and your observations, especially the scan codes and clearing them. I once ran out of gas on my 2005 years ago and had to get towed to a Toyota dealership to get it running again. Not a fun experience.

 

Sorry that happened to u but thanks for the information. Very helpful!

 

Interesting. The van should have an 18 gallon tank, but if yours is AWD that may be different. Mine's FWD, so 18 gallons for me @ 40+ MPG = 600-700 miles per tank unless it's really cold. I'm a fanatic though. Per the manual, "Low fuel" message comes on with 2.7 gallons remaining. From my experience, the range states "refuel" with one gallon remaining. The most fuel I've ever pumped was 17.8 gallons, but the way the van was angled at the pump, I inadvertently filled the neck as well and I could see gas about an inch inside the neck. So that was at least half a gallon. I was NERVOUS the last couple miles lol

 

Competing for the longest recorded range crown is a stupid game.

 

I appreciate this thread and I don't even own a hybrid Sienna yet.

It answers some interesting questions and it makes the nature of the risks at the end of the range clearer. I don't like to cut it close, being more of a belt and suspenders guy, but I don't believe in the bogeyman either. Information is good.

The tongue clucking and moralizing I could do without.

 

I appreciate this thread as well. Informative.

 

I bet you fill up every hundred miles just in case. If that's the case, why not just buy an EV? The rest of us enjoy actually being able to drive our cars and fill up where we choose rather than bounce around between broken charging stations.

You've overlooked the most obvious and practical alternative which was already discussed.

I have gotten 2 gallons before just to get me across town where the fuel is cheaper. Dirty Harry said it best. "A man's got to know his limitations."

Whether or not you drive across town for gas is neither here nor there, though the benefit may be questionable. What's the deal there? Waiting until a Costco shopping trip to save 10 cents a gallon? The relevant question is whether you were flirting with empty when you put in the two gallons. When playing the range game, you can't max out that number without running out of gas.

 

When playing the range game, you can't max out that number without running out of gas.

Maybe not, but I have gone 768 miles on a tank without running out. 💪🏻 I have never run out of fuel in any vehicle. Close? Maybe. But close only counts in horseshoes and grenades. The point is that if you make a plan, work your plan, you can make your plan work. The low fuel light comes on with 2.7 gallons remaining in the tank. But let's say 2.2 for a safe margin. Then, I look at my trip MPG for that day so far. Let's say it's 42.5, which is around average. 42.5 X 2.2 = 93.5 miles, with a half gallon margin. That's a lot of range for the low fuel light to be on. Now that's not an ideal situation I try to be in, I don't think anyone does. But it's a numbers game and if the theory behind the math works, it works. If it's too close for comfort, I get 2 gallons at $3.39/gallon or whatever to get me somewhere where the fuel is $2.79/gallon. When you drive for Uber, every cent counts.

 

It’s very nice that you got 768 miles range on a full tank of gas. I would love to try to get that type of range on my 2025 Sienna AWD Platinum. I’ve been doing 12.6 mile round trips around town and getting between 42.5 mpg to 46.9 mpg average fuel economy in my van with that 12.6 mile round trip that I make 2 to 3 times a week when I drive it. I’ve owned the van now for 2 1/2 months and I already have put 277 miles on it.

 

@Sienna9816 Thank you for your shared experience. 4Runners allow 5 gallons of gas at the low fuel light. This will a great reference point for me.

One thing I have learned on filling the gas with pollution control devices attached to the nozzle is to allow about 5 seconds after auto shut off, break the pollution control seal, reinsert and try one more pump. That second auto shut off will be more accurate as to the "top."

 

Obligatory CCN vid reply reminding you never to top off

 

Thank you very much I learn some thing from you

 

we all learn every day from each other

 

I'm not here to start a pissing contest, I actually have a question or two.
I hear it often, never run low gas, you'll burn out the pump. From what I have heard that doesnt happen in modern cars for several reasons.
New pumps dont really need to be submerged in fuel to cool, they cool, and lubricate, as they draw the fuel.
Even if they did need to be submerged, its been proven here, even when you run "low" and the light is on, there's still a lot of fuel left in the tank so its not like the pump really is exposed or running dry or whatever.
I have also heard that new computer controlled cars wont even allow the pump to continue running even if you did run it out of gas. Where the float is I dont know but as I understand it, as soon as the float hits its limit, the pump shuts off.
None of what I stated there is fact, I'm not trying to say it is, just saying its something I have heard.

Can anyone here say, with actual data to back it up, can you actually burn out a fuel pump nowadays?
Again, I'm not asking for someone's opinion, thats about as good as mine, I'm asking if anyone has any proof. Or proof either way for that matter.

 

Knowing Toyota's MO, which is risk aversion, I would guess that the car would be programmed to shut itself down well before there is a tangible risk for anything to be damaged. And if the car thinks it's still not 100% ready after the driver "troubleshot" it by adding some gas, it will not start again until looked over by a mechanic.

 

I'm not here to start a pissing contest, I actually have a question or two.
I hear it often, never run low gas, you'll burn out the pump. From what I have heard that doesnt happen in modern cars for several reasons.
New pumps dont really need to be submerged in fuel to cool, they cool, and lubricate, as they draw the fuel.
Even if they did need to be submerged, its been proven here, even when you run "low" and the light is on, there's still a lot of fuel left in the tank so its not like the pump really is exposed or running dry or whatever.
I have also heard that new computer controlled cars wont even allow the pump to continue running even if you did run it out of gas. Where the float is I dont know but as I understand it, as soon as the float hits its limit, the pump shuts off.
None of what I stated there is fact, I'm not trying to say it is, just saying its something I have heard.

Can anyone here say, with actual data to back it up, can you actually burn out a fuel pump nowadays?
Again, I'm not asking for someone's opinion, thats about as good as mine, I'm asking if anyone has any proof. Or proof either way for that matter.

Knowing Toyota's MO, which is risk aversion, I would guess that the car would be programmed to shut itself down well before there is a tangible risk for anything to be damaged. And if the car thinks it's still not 100% ready after the driver "troubleshot" it by adding some gas, it will not start again until looked over by a mechanic.

+1.

( Not repeating my post#9 from earlier ).