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2004 Toyota Sienna Xle?
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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I added clearer information furthur down thread( I am a worse computer guy than car guy so I need to figure out how this works better for next post)*** ^ ORIGINAL ^ : I guess its a "thing" that the thermostats get stuck, idk if it is stuck open or stuck closed specifically. My 2004 Sienna had service light and code for it. Went and bought thermostat then in went off. Then recently on for a few days then off. I certainly understand the idea I should just go ahead and replace it to make sure it stays in good shape. But I am already dealing with several other issues of where to put money. And I guess I need to change vent cover gasket for small oil leak. Seems to be only place it can be coming from but that's a separate issue. What kind of a risk am I running with the Thermostat specifically if I do not replace it now because the light went off? To me the light going off says it is working intermittently but is working now. And I'd prefer to exchange the Thermostat for what I need change gasket right now. Bad idea? Or what is the wisdom on the situation?
 

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2014 Sienna LE
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What will happen depends on if it’s stuck closed or stuck open, and by how much. What does the dashboard temp gauge show? Is it lower than normal, and taking longer to heat up? Or is it reading higher than normal?

Was the code for low or high engine coolant temp? They should have separate codes for each instance.

Do you have any sort of OBD scanner? Those can be used to measure engine coolant temp.

If the thermostat is stuck closed, the engine will overheat, and you can warp things, get head gasket leaks, and quickly destroy the engine, depending how much it’s stuck shut. If stuck open, it’ll take longer to heat up, which likely isn’t as big of an issue, but can lead to water in the oil not evaporating, extra fuel usage, and extra wear (probably slow) on the engine from operating cooler than it should. Unless it’s low enough temp long enough to get a lot of water build-up in the oil and the oil emulsifies, which could lead to rapid engine wear.

Finally did you bleed the coolant properly after changing the thermostat? Air trapped in the coolant that wasn’t bleed properly could lead to fluctuating engine coolant temps, and is not a good thing. Verify the reservoir is properly filled. Then, with the engine cold, open the radiator cap and verify it’s full to the top. If it’s not, the cooling system isn’t full, and that’s likely the problem.

And in fact, low coolant level, if you didn’t check before changing the thermostat, could have been the original issue, and not a bad thermostat. It’s possible, but seems fairly unlikely, for a new thermostat to be bad.
 

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Did you have the thermostat replaced or did you replace it yourself? If you had it done, take the van back to the shop. It shouldn’t cost you anything more for the shop to do the job correctly, parts and all. If you did the job yourself, take the thermostat back for warranty replacement. Toy’ll be out a couple of hours of your time. I don’t see how “where to put money” factors into getting this fixed.

Sixto
‘04 LE FWD 206K miles
 

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When the T-Stat on my 2016 Limited stuck open, it threw a PO128 code


Basically took forever to get up to operating temp and MPG's took a dump

Replaced it and she was good to go again

Tire Wheel Automotive tire Tread Motor vehicle

Hand Gas Electric blue Jewellery Fashion accessory

Glove Safety glove Gas Automotive lighting Electric blue
 

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I guess its a "thing" that the thermostats get stuck, idk if it is stuck open or stuck closed specifically. My 2004 Sienna had service light and code for it. Went and bought thermostat then in went off. Then recently on for a few days then off. I certainly understand the idea I should just go ahead and replace it to make sure it stays in good shape. But I am already dealing with several other issues of where to put money. And I guess I need to change vent cover gasket for small oil leak. Seems to be only place it can be coming from but that's a separate issue. What kind of a risk am I running with the Thermostat specifically if I do not replace it now because the light went off? To me the light going off says it is working intermittently but is working now. And I'd prefer to exchange the Thermostat for what I need change gasket right now. Bad idea? Or what is the wisdom on the situation?
More information is required.

First, yes, absolutely, thermostats get stuck open or closed. The description from @jseyfert3 above is pretty good, except there needs to be some more emphasis. If it's stuck closed, you WILL overheat your engine, WILL warp the head and WILL blow a head gasket, totaling your Sienna. Maybe that will make the "where to put money" question much easier, because it will be put into a new car payment.

Second, I'm not entirely clear... "Went and bought thermostat then in went off." sounds like the light went off WITHOUT you actually replacing the thermostat. If so, we can start at the beginning, which is actually a MUCH better place to start to look for advice on cars.

So, we start with, what code(s) do you actually have? What were the symptoms? What made you decide you need a new thermostat as the best, first solution? Have you checked your coolant level? What's the deal with the oil leak? Is the money issue that there other car issues which cost money or is it other money issues limiting your car expenditures? If it's other car issues, what are they?

Honestly, I didn't even know there was a code for the thermostat. It has no wires, so I'm not sure how it determines it, unless it's by pressure/temperature. Typically stuck open never warms up and stuck closed never cools down (overheats). There's a third option where the temp is off and it will open too soon or too late but not enough to actually make it super obvious unless you have a live temp readout from a scan tool. All that said, the most important, critical first task to ANY coolant issues is to check the coolant level and inspect for visible leaks. The level check needs to be done carefully, as, you can't check the actual radiator level and the overflow tank often get stained with coolant, so you can't necessarily tell. I find it best to bounce the van so I can see the fluid level moving in there. Now, the way the van pulls coolant from the overflow is that you bring the van to operating temp, then let it cool, which creates a vacuum, pulling in excess coolant from the overflow. If you have a leak, it can pull in air instead of coolant, which is where leak detection comes in. You want to look carefully on all sides of everything with bright lights for the telltale pink crust or evidence of wetness.

Assuming you have a full coolant symptom, it's time for a test drive. Put front and rear heat on full hot, high blower and take the van for a drive. You want to get it up to operating temp. If you have a scan tool that gives you live data, you want to track/monitor the engine temps. Typically, what you expect to see is that it will start at ambient temp, climb to a temp (80-84°C/176-183°F), then drop maybe 30 degrees, then climb, then drop less, and so on and so forth, until, eventually, it reaches an equilibrium state somewhere around 20 minutes (less, if it's highway speeds) of driving time. If the temp never gets to the "normal" range, or it climbs far, far past the normal range, you have a thermostat issue. You will want to change it out ASAP. Best case scenario is that it's stuck open and you will find your gas mileage is down in the 10 mpg, which effectively doubles your cost of gas. At $3/gallon, it won't take many miles before you pay for the cost of the labor on replacement. Worst case, it's stuck closed and your playing a game of "how far can I push it?" before you overheat and destroy your engine. Side note, you can often "fix" (very short term, in an emergency) the overheating from a bad thermostat by turning the heat on full blast to add additional cooling to the system which can draw some heat out of the coolant.

As for an oil leak, I would entirely ignore it for now. If the van is dripping on your driveway, throw down some kitty litter or put a piece of cardboard down every time you park. Carry a jug of 5W30 in your van at all times and check the level once per week and top off as needed. You can drive essentially indefinitely like this without causing damage. When you're ready to do a valve cover gasket (assuming that's what you meant by "vent cover gasket") job, there's a bunch of other work to do at the same time, so it's best to give yourself plenty of time/money to do the whole job, rather than trying to just do part of it. Of course, depending on other issues/factors with your van, my position on this may change.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Sorry I didn't make that clear when I wrote it. I had the service light come on like a month ago. Then after I bought the thermostat the light went off without any replacement or work even done at all. Then a month later came on while we were out of town before Christmas, then it went off before we even got home. So I have the part but haven't changed it yet. I can and have done work on vehicles and with YouTube videos etc.. these days I pretty much can do general replacements or whatever and usually prefer to do them. BUT, also the 25th I thought I could smell something when we parked after driving about an hour. But couldn't see any smoke and the smell wasn't strong enough for my wife to even think it was there. So didn't inspect any further. But next drive realized definitely oil or something burning off. Has had very small oil leaks for a while but not enough to even make drops on concrete overnight. So after cleaning some off and running and checking around filter and areas that I can see, it appears to be coming from the engine cover vent(idk proper name necessarily) and j guess as result of gasket problem. This is something I haven't changed before and I really don't have the $150 to spare at Toyota just to have an inspection. But of course is very important. So I was saying basically if I can return Thermostat because it is not of immediate importance I could at least put that money towards this. I believe I can change out gasket but haven't before. Also have no guarantee it is gasket and should really probably get inspection. But already really had no money available. And any money I'd use would be taking it from somewhere that it really should be, but wouldn't be as bad as losing the entire engine. And since I don't really know anyone where I am living I am just trying to figure out what to do, but also trying to make sure I am not doing anything dumb especially. It shows basically no drop in oil. Dipstick looks absolutely full. Drops on ground are definitely some oil but also all the rain lately has made it hard to tell whether it 10-20 drop or what. My thinking was the oil leak is the more important especially if gasket not filter not screwed on right or something but idk much about the thermostat specifically. I know it matters for engine performance and it decides the temp of gas in the engine and can reduce or increase performance. I don't drive it much and my wife drives 35 mile each way to her hospital. She hadn't noticed anything but before this I thought I noticed a bit of lag in the acceleration. Only been driven a few miles since then but also I figured not too bad because oil hadn't even dropped any. I am unsure and just looking to get input on anything anyone has about, should and shouldn't do, or already messed up on, or don't do this next time etc...
More information is required.

First, yes, absolutely, thermostats get stuck open or closed. The description from @jseyfert3 above is pretty good, except there needs to be some more emphasis. If it's stuck closed, you WILL overheat your engine, WILL warp the head and WILL blow a head gasket, totaling your Sienna. Maybe that will make the "where to put money" question much easier, because it will be put into a new car payment.

Second, I'm not entirely clear... "Went and bought thermostat then in went off." sounds like the light went off WITHOUT you actually replacing the thermostat. If so, we can start at the beginning, which is actually a MUCH better place to start to look for advice on cars.

So, we start with, what code(s) do you actually have? What were the symptoms? What made you decide you need a new thermostat as the best, first solution? Have you checked your coolant level? What's the deal with the oil leak? Is the money issue that there other car issues which cost money or is it other money issues limiting your car expenditures? If it's other car issues, what are they?

Honestly, I didn't even know there was a code for the thermostat. It has no wires, so I'm not sure how it determines it, unless it's by pressure/temperature. Typically stuck open never warms up and stuck closed never cools down (overheats). There's a third option where the temp is off and it will open too soon or too late but not enough to actually make it super obvious unless you have a live temp readout from a scan tool. All that said, the most important, critical first task to ANY coolant issues is to check the coolant level and inspect for visible leaks. The level check needs to be done carefully, as, you can't check the actual radiator level and the overflow tank often get stained with coolant, so you can't necessarily tell. I find it best to bounce the van so I can see the fluid level moving in there. Now, the way the van pulls coolant from the overflow is that you bring the van to operating temp, then let it cool, which creates a vacuum, pulling in excess coolant from the overflow. If you have a leak, it can pull in air instead of coolant, which is where leak detection comes in. You want to look carefully on all sides of everything with bright lights for the telltale pink crust or evidence of wetness.

Assuming you have a full coolant symptom, it's time for a test drive. Put front and rear heat on full hot, high blower and take the van for a drive. You want to get it up to operating temp. If you have a scan tool that gives you live data, you want to track/monitor the engine temps. Typically, what you expect to see is that it will start at ambient temp, climb to a temp (80-84°C/176-183°F), then drop maybe 30 degrees, then climb, then drop less, and so on and so forth, until, eventually, it reaches an equilibrium state somewhere around 20 minutes (less, if it's highway speeds) of driving time. If the temp never gets to the "normal" range, or it climbs far, far past the normal range, you have a thermostat issue. You will want to change it out ASAP. Best case scenario is that it's stuck open and you will find your gas mileage is down in the 10 mpg, which effectively doubles your cost of gas. At $3/gallon, it won't take many miles before you pay for the cost of the labor on replacement. Worst case, it's stuck closed and your playing a game of "how far can I push it?" before you overheat and destroy your engine. Side note, you can often "fix" (very short term, in an emergency) the overheating from a bad thermostat by turning the heat on full blast to add additional cooling to the system which can draw some heat out of the coolant.

As for an oil leak, I would entirely ignore it for now. If the van is dripping on your driveway, throw down some kitty litter or put a piece of cardboard down every time you park. Carry a jug of 5W30 in your van at all times and check the level once per week and top off as needed. You can drive essentially indefinitely like this without causing damage. When you're ready to do a valve cover gasket (assuming that's what you meant by "vent cover gasket") job, there's a bunch of other work to do at the same time, so it's best to give yourself plenty of time/money to do the whole job, rather than trying to just do part of it. Of course, depending on other issues/factors with your van, my position on this may change.
Ok that all seems pretty clear. I will look for the code number. I got a printout from Autozone, and O'Reilly had the same code. I tested at both bc it one time years ago, my Mitsubishi Eclipse would supposedly say different things depending on chain store is always how it seemed. So to be cautious but need spend at Toyo dealer checked to make sure they agreed. There was what looked to be ...I am not kidding just three barely beaded up red-pink drops on the oil but the problem with assessing the drops was serious rain and humidity so standing water all around it...just wasn't sure there could NOT be some way other than van or coolant and found no more then or since. I did notice before the smoking leak the pickup seemed strange and it seemed like I'd get extra torque without pushing accelerator enough to normally cause that. It peeled out on a slope, in the rain ...things I didn't expect but I may drive it 10 miles a week normally. I also didn't associate it with Thermo but makes sense now because it was jn the back of mind that jt affected gas temp or something if sticking one way. I'll need to assess it all agian now. I'm about to head back there to van. Oh and yeah, money in general that should be for other things but will use if it's a matter of life or death for van. I appreciate you answering. I'm glad I found this site because I can certainly use it. I haven't figured out all of the this forum yet but I am assume can come back and add later. 👍
 

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Honestly, I didn't even know there was a code for the thermostat. It has no wires, so I'm not sure how it determines it, unless it's by pressure/temperature.

Yep

During open loop, there are preset parameters that need to be met before it can go into closed loop mode

The ECU takes ambient temp readings, throttle position and engine load (among other things) into consideration and begins a countdown.

If it doesn't reach operating temp within a certain amount of time based on all of these factors, it will assume the T-stat is kaput and throw a code.

An easy way to check if your T-stat is stuck open is to remove the radiator cap before a cold start and check for flow.

If you see coolant flowing through the radiator during initial start up, then it's stuck open and needs to be replaced.
 

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So, I'll re-state that a slow dripping oil leak can probably be ignored, especially if money is super tight. Just keep checking oil level regularly and give your wife the heads up that, if the oil light comes one, to pull over, shut the engine off and wait for a tow. As for this: "... just three barely beaded up red-pink drops on the oil ..." If you have red/pink drops IN the oil, the damage (from overheating) may already be done. Depending on how long it's been since your last oil change, I'd probably do one now. Transfer the oil to something like a milk jug and let it settle for a couple hours to see if you get a layer of coolant on the bottom. If so, you'll likely have to start shopping for a new van. Thermostat replacement is a fairly simple job on the '04. The main issue is that you WILL make a mess draining the coolant and will want to buy the correct Toyota coolant to re-fill and bleed the system. You'll probably also break the plastic housing, so will need that from the dealer too. It's never just the thermostat.
 

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An easy way to check if your T-stat is stuck open is to remove the radiator cap before a cold start and check for flow.

If you see coolant flowing through the radiator during initial start up, then it's stuck open and needs to be replaced.
I didn't think you could do that on the '04-06. My '06 radiator doesn't actually have a cap (which annoys the heck out of me!). It has the "radiator cap" on the upper hose closer to the firewall.
 

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P0128 is triggered in a prescribed time after engine start if the coolant doesn’t reach a prescribed temperature (~160F?). Usually means a bad thermostat, could be a bad temp sensor (behind and below the coolant pressure cap) but I haven’t read of that in this forum. The ECU stores the code until reset but the CEL won’t come on until the prescribed check time elapses. You might not see the CEL on short trips but the code will be in history.

On a tangent, for those who replace plastic heater tees with brass, the two-piece aluminum thermostat cover from a 1MZ and some 3MZs is a bolt-on replacement. There’s an o-ring between sections and an extra temp sensor bung to deal with.

Sixto
‘04 LE FWD 206K miles
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I added clearer information furthur down thread( I am a worse computer guy than car guy so I need to figure out how this works better for next post)*** ^ ORIGINAL ^ : I guess its a "thing" that the thermostats get stuck, idk if it is stuck open or stuck closed specifically. My 2004 Sienna had service light and code for it. Went and bought thermostat then in went off. Then recently on for a few days then off. I certainly understand the idea I should just go ahead and replace it to make sure it stays in good shape. But I am already dealing with several other issues of where to put money. And I guess I need to change vent cover gasket for small oil leak. Seems to be only place it can be coming from but that's a separate issue. What kind of a risk am I running with the Thermostat specifically if I do not replace it now because the light went off? To me the light going off says it is working intermittently but is working now. And I'd prefer to exchange the Thermostat for what I need change gasket right now. Bad idea? Or what is the wisdom on the situation?
 
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