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Still Hyundai and Kia are not reliable after all these years, I don't want to trash them and Toyota has problem too but they try to cramp more electronic and options into the new models and long warranty to make it more appealing but how long before it start to fail or who know if it will caught on fire and kill someone. Most importantly if they care to fix it when it failed.



Here's a video from Asian PetrolHead on youtube at 17:06 showing there's a fire extinguisher in the new Carnival in Korea, is it to use when your Carnival caught fire?


I mean it's a nice van and some of the options we don't get it here in North America but I guess they may use cheaper part so they can sell their vehicle at a lower price? I still don't trust it.
 

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This sounds like brand bashing (even if you deny that). We have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, nary an single issue, just routine twice per year maintenance. Kia and Hyndai cars of 10-15 years ago are not the same as 2021/2022. Look up brand and specific model reliability and projected long terms ratings for new Kia and Hyundai models in 2021 Consumer Reports (CR), they are on par with Toyota. 2021 Kia Telluride sits atop all medium size SUVs in its class both overall rating and reliability, 2021 Hyundai Kona is #2 in its category with excellent reliability, 2021 Kia Sportage is 4th in its category with excellent relaibility, 2021 Hyundai Palisade is #2 in its category for overall rating with very good reliability. Consumer Reports is currently testing the new 2022 Kia Carnival, initial impressions have been very positive, I won't be surprised if, like the Telluride and Palisade, it equals 2021 Toyota Sienna in overal ratings, it might even best it in overall Road Test ratings category.
 

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This sounds like brand bashing (even if you deny that). We have a 2017 Hyundai Santa Fe Sport, nary an single issue, just routine twice per year maintenance. Kia and Hyndai cars of 10-15 years ago are not the same as 2021/2022. Look up brand and specific model reliability and projected long terms ratings for new Kia and Hyundai models in 2021 Consumer Reports (CR), they are on par with Toyota. 2021 Kia Telluride sits atop all medium size SUVs in its class both overall rating and reliability, 2021 Hyundai Kona is #2 in its category with excellent reliability, 2021 Kia Sportage is 4th in its category with excellent relaibility, 2021 Hyundai Palisade is #2 in its category for overall rating with very good reliability. Consumer Reports is currently testing the new 2022 Kia Carnival, initial impressions have been very positive, I won't be surprised if, like the Telluride and Palisade, it equals 2021 Toyota Sienna in overal ratings, it might even best it in overall Road Test ratings category.
A 2017 shouldnt have any issues IMO, but you said nary, so what issues have you had. Projected long term ratings mean less to most people and myself, than to real actual long term ratings, so Kia and Hyundai have still a few years to go before you can consider them high quality. I do however think they have gotten better in the past several years although not content with the power output- had the same santa fe nonturbo as a 2month rental, was absolutely gutless. Also one may consider that they've also gotten better partly based on the perspective that almost every other brand has been on the slide.
 

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There are plenty of pictures of Toyota on fire too. Toyota had an issue in recent enough memory where the accelerator would get stuck, which is just as bad if not probably worse than a car randomly applying brakes.

This is not a reason to write off a brand that is eons ahead of where it was 20 years ago, which unfortunately it still carries a stigma of.
 

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Some Kia dealers are marking Carnivals up above MSRP, not such a good value.

The three recent Kia problem spots that come to mind don't apply to the Carnival:
1) as above: electrical fire recall of hundreds of thousands of Hyundai/Kias with the "park it outside" warning
2) premature CVT failures on the Forte and Soul
3) defective battery packs on H/K EVs resulting in one of, if not the most expensive car recall ever at almost $1 billion
 

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Kia has been at the top of JD Power's Initial Quality Survey for several years. I've heard the criticisms of JD Power before on this forum so I know that survey might not mean too much. As someone else also said, Consumer Reports has been recommending several of their models for several years and the Telluride is currently their highest midsize 3 row SUV.

They also spent $1 billion researching how to improve quality. Here's an article from 3 years ago about it.


As a former leasee of a 2017 Kia Sorento which had zero problems over 39 months, it's my opinion that they make quality cars.

Toyota has also had their share of recalls over the past several years but they still make quality cars and SUVs.

The actual reason that there's a fire extinguisher in the South Korean Carnival is because it's a regulatory requirement in South Korea. Here's an article I found which explains the regulation.



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Im really not trying to keep stirring the pot, but all new vehicles in S Korea require a fire extinguisher due to concerns of engine fires,,,, Hyundai and Kia represent half if not more of of the market there respectively. If i was the S Korea Govt, i'd impose it that rule on all brands as well so not to ruin the domestic brand.
 

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I forgot to mention that as much as I like the Carnival, I feel Kia made some poor decisions when it comes to trims / options. First, how come you can only get a dual sunroof and homelink in the rear view mirror on the top of the line SX Prestige trim? You can't even get a single sunroof in any of the other trims. Second, how come I can't get all the options in SX Prestige trim in an 8 seat configuration (i.e. without the vip lounge seats)? It would have been nice if they had a package you could add on the SX trim to give you all the extra features in the SX Prestige without the vip lounge seats.

I watched the following Alex on Autos video on the Carnival and he showed how easy it was to remove the 2nd row seats in the 8 seat model and apparently it's large enough to hold plywood.


Those of us who occasionally use our older Siennas to transport large amounts of cargo will appreciate how Kia made the 2nd row seats in the Carnival more easily removable than the 2021 Sienna.

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Im really not trying to keep stirring the pot, but all new vehicles in S Korea require a fire extinguisher due to concerns of engine fires,,,, Hyundai and Kia represent half if not more of of the market there respectively. If i was the S Korea Govt, i'd impose it that rule on all brands as well so not to ruin the domestic brand.
Except you're incorrect that the fire extinguisher rule was enacted because of Hyundai and Kia engine fires. The article I linked to said the rule was enacted because of "widespread public concerns about a string of engine fires involving BMW cars." Apparently a lot of BMWs had caught fire in South Korea.

You're clearly biased against Hyundai and Kia cars and you're entitled to your opinion. The older models clearly deserve the negative reputation but their quality over the past several years has greatly improved and the data published by Consumer Reports from their reader surveys proves it. I think you should read the Popular Mechanics article I posted which explains the effort that Kia made to improve quality.

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No all wheel drive option and far less gas mileage than my 2021 SIenna makes it a no go for me. GAS mileage on the upcoming Carnival is the same old mileage that V6 vans have had for the last 10 plus years. My 2021 Sieena gets more than double the gas mileage in town that my 2014 Sieena got. 35 vs 16. Over the next 5 years At the current gas price , based on my driving, I will save nearly $7k in gas alone vs the Kia van.
 

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I love Toyota for their reliability as well but they have issues too.

I bought 2 Tacomas and 1 forerunner used because they were only registered in the south. I knew about the frame rusting issues. I got the frame rust extended warranty letter on both Tacos. I never had to use it.

I just had the brake pump assembly replaced on my 2012 Prius V. It was a silent recall and even though it was obviously going bad, the dealer could do nothing until it failed and threw a code. That is an over $3,000 repair. They tried to charge a friend of mine for this repair on his Prius 8 years ago before the TSB. He took it to Toyota corporate & they covered it. This generation of Prius also has issues with a poor choice of head gasket that can fail, hydro locking the cylinders and there is an issue with the EGR system that could lead to carbon deposits in the piston rings leading to oil consumption.

I am hoping Toyota has fixed these issues in the latest Hybrids since I just bought a Sienna Hybrid. At least I hope they back anything costly that is a design issue as they have in the past.
 

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A 2017 shouldnt have any issues IMO, but you said nary, so what issues have you had. Projected long term ratings mean less to most people and myself, than to real actual long term ratings, so Kia and Hyundai have still a few years to go before you can consider them high quality. I do however think they have gotten better in the past several years although not content with the power output- had the same santa fe nonturbo as a 2month rental, was absolutely gutless. Also one may consider that they've also gotten better partly based on the perspective that almost every other brand has been on the slide.
I replaced the windshield wipers, all 4 brake pads and air cabin filter, that's it. Other than that, oil changes. It's close to 5 years ownership. Absolutely drives like new. I like it so much I am planning to replace it next year with the 2022 Hyundai Santa Fe.
 

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I was originally planning to get the Kia Carnival for several reasons: panoramic sun/moonroof, dual blindspot camera, dual RES, nicer looking digital cockpit and infotainment system, ability to remove second rows and reverse them (from the videos I've seen), and of course the design. However, I am still happy with my limited which I got the RES (not the greatest) and captain lounge chairs (like the Carnival minus heated/cooling/powered) still. The main reason was I know it's Toyota and hugely the gas mileage... I'm on my 500 mi and only at half a tank (still 200 estimated mi left before empty) and this is still my first full tank after purchase. I mean this is awesome especially for the summer and taking the family out on long road trips. Definitely no buyer remorse for me.
 

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I was originally planning to get the Kia Carnival for several reasons: panoramic sun/moonroof, dual blindspot camera, dual RES, nicer looking digital cockpit and infotainment system, ability to remove second rows and reverse them (from the videos I've seen), and of course the design. However, I am still happy with my limited which I got the RES (not the greatest) and captain lounge chairs (like the Carnival minus heated/cooling/powered) still. The main reason was I know it's Toyota and hugely the gas mileage... I'm on my 500 mi and only at half a tank (still 200 estimated mi left before empty) and this is still my first full tank after purchase. I mean this is awesome especially for the summer and taking the family out on long road trips. Definitely no buyer remorse for me.
For us, All Wheel drive, in the northeast snows we get. I wouldn't touch another front drive minivan again, For us. Oddyssey's that would always struggle on snowy hill or sections of road. Sienna AWD, goes up it with almost no wheel spin. The huge gas savings now too. Kia van is still stuck on the old gas mileage numbers that haven't changed much on V6 minivans. All our old V6 minivans would get 15-16mpg in town driving. Sienna, 35mpg
 

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For us, All Wheel drive, in the northeast snows we get. I wouldn't touch another front drive minivan again, For us. Oddyssey's that would always struggle on snowy hill or sections of road. Sienna AWD, goes up it with almost no wheel spin. The huge gas savings now too. Kia van is still stuck on the old gas mileage numbers that haven't changed much on V6 minivans. All our old V6 minivans would get 15-16mpg in town driving. Sienna, 35mpg
Oh yeah, forgot to mention the AWD! though ours didn't come with one and here in Virginia with lame snowy winters plus we telework mostly now, we ended up not needing one but having that option is a huge bonus over the Kia. Sure we can then compare Sienna to Pacifica, but I would not dare go anywhere near the latter... no matter how nice the options are in that car.
 

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View attachment 49781 View attachment 49782

Okay, so I chose the two worst matchups
Yes, by your own admission, you did. Biased and selective. Yes, the Kia small and compact cars are not pulling their weight. It doesn't mean this brush should be painted all the other categories where they have made significant progress in leaps and bounds (and beating Toyota).
 
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