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We're a Toyota family and have been on the waiting list for a Sienna since October. Our experience with the Toyota buying experience has been worse than terrible. Dealerships constantly switching stories, passed between sales guy to sales guy and forced options we simply don't want. The latest is the gulf states paint protection then the dealer paint protection mark up on the same vehicle. Not to mention the mudguards, roof rails and rear entertainment system etc. etc. It's Nuts!

It looks as though Tesla came down below the EV tax credit on some models. A Model 3 performance after the credit is now $47k. My wife and I are about to place the order online for the Tesla and cancel the Toyota. We really wanted the Sienna but are running out of patience with the whole process.

The crazy thing is that we can order the Tesla from home, without the dealership slime and have the Tesla delivered first week in Feb 2023.

Decisions, decisions. One thing I know is if the Toyota dealership try anything else from this point they can stick their van up their ***
 

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We're a Toyota family and have been on the waiting list for a Sienna since October. Our experience with the Toyota buying experience has been worse than terrible. Dealerships constantly switching stories, passed between sales guy to sales guy and forced options we simply don't want. The latest is the gulf states paint protection then the dealer paint protection mark up on the same vehicle. Not to mention the mudguards, roof rails and rear entertainment system etc. etc. It's Nuts!

It looks as though Tesla came down below the EV tax credit on some models. A Model 3 performance after the credit is now $47k. My wife and I are about to place the order online for the Tesla and cancel the Toyota. We really wanted the Sienna but are running out of patience with the whole process.

The crazy thing is that we can order the Tesla from home, without the dealership slime and have the Tesla delivered first week in Feb 2023.

Decisions, decisions. One thing I know is if the Toyota dealership try anything else from this point they can stick their van up their ***
Sure I don't see a problem with buying a Tesla, but why are you looking at Teslas if you need the space of a minivan. There are other vans out there. Pacifica Hybrid, VW Atlas, Mercedes Metris, Kia Carnival, etc. The fuel savings and reliability won't matter much if you can get it cheap enough to offset the extra cost of the hybrid. I don't really believe in being loyal to a brand. A little competition is healthy.
 

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doesn't make sense to get sedan tesla when you need a van... just because of some unpleasant business pratice, you're going to change you final goal plans.... I test road a tesla, love it and the instant torque power was almost sports motorcycle equivalent.... but I don't want a $20k battery later cost or the limited distant and limited charging zones....Find a good dealer...its part of life...some good dealers and some not so...the worst decision in life are made in by irrational emotional fits.... Planning is everything, have options....
 

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We're a Toyota family and have been on the waiting list for a Sienna since October. Our experience with the Toyota buying experience has been worse than terrible. Dealerships constantly switching stories, passed between sales guy to sales guy and forced options we simply don't want. The latest is the gulf states paint protection then the dealer paint protection mark up on the same vehicle. Not to mention the mudguards, roof rails and rear entertainment system etc. etc. It's Nuts!

It looks as though Tesla came down below the EV tax credit on some models. A Model 3 performance after the credit is now $47k. My wife and I are about to place the order online for the Tesla and cancel the Toyota. We really wanted the Sienna but are running out of patience with the whole process.

The crazy thing is that we can order the Tesla from home, without the dealership slime and have the Tesla delivered first week in Feb 2023.

Decisions, decisions. One thing I know is if the Toyota dealership try anything else from this point they can stick their van up their ***
A Tesla sedan and a hybrid ICE van have vastly different capacities and capabilities. If you don't need a van, most definitely get something else, like another EV or maybe a prius? Toyotas are far from perfect, but teslas have dreadful build quality. If you are going to get an EV, there will be many more choices soon, and prices are going to drop as well.
 

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I’ve had my Sienna 25thAE for almost a month now. My wife drives a 22 Tesla Model Y. Guess which one I took on a road trip to Florida? The Model Y, even with the 19 inch wheels, rides like shit in the back. Real-world range? About 2/3rds unless you’re driving at 55mph with no wind and slightly downhill. You’ll NEVER get the full 330 miles of range. Pay attention when you close the door on any Tesla, then immediately go and close the door on a Lexus. Get back to me when you do so and tell me how they feel and sound. Of course, it’s got great acceleration. I stomp on it anytime there’s a Mustang next to me. Tesla fans tell me all the time how I should just put it on autopilot and let the car do its thing. It’s a more relaxing drive they say. Nah, I’ve tried it and I’ll hold on to the wheel and maintain control myself.

What part of supply chain constraints don’t you understand? They can’t make enough Siennas to meet demand right now.


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Yea, weird comparison. Why are you buying a Model 3, when you originally wanted a minivan? I have a 2018 Model S and a 2023 Sienna XLE. The Model S is my daily driver for work commute. And then Sienna is my wife's car since we have two young girls. Absolutely different capabilities and purposes for each car. It's a pain in the ass to load and unload my toddler daughter with my Model S. We never take the Model S when going anywhere with the girls. If I were you, I would at least get the Model Y since its now only $53K and qualifies for the $7500 credit, and you would have more room. The Model 3 is such a tiny ass car and ride quality is crap.
 

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My brother got a Model 3 before the pandemic. He has had the display blank out until you start the car again, at least he still had control of the car at highway speeds. I’ve read of someone who did lose steering and had to shut the car off.

Tesla service hasn’t kept pace with manufacturing increases. So what to do? uh, take your car to a GM dealership of all places.

Edit: seen on Reddit

Wow, great links, teslas are even worse than l thought. Regarding Elon Musk's Twitter and tesla antics: he is, by far, his own worst enemy.
 

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Agree with the others. It’s understandable to be upset with Toyota, but dropping the minivan to go with a small sedan doesn’t make any sense. Either you want a minivan, or you want an electric sedan. The two vehicles almost couldn’t be more different.

I’ve ridden in a passenger in my CEOs Model S. Top of the line model from like 2015 (like $130,000). Crazy fast acceleration. Tons of fun! But my 2014 Sienna is way more practical. I don’t have kids, but I’ve enjoyed hauling 4x8 sheets of plywood, between the van and a U-haul trailer I moved (just me) without needing to rent a truck, and have hauled all sort of other stuff.


If you’re unhappy about waiting for an insanely popular Toyota, think really hard about a Tesla. Sure, you can order one and have it delivered ASAP. But when something goes wrong, where are you going to have it serviced, and how much will it cost? More importantly, how long will it take? I’ve read plenty of horror stories of it taking weeks or months for a service place to get parts. Chances are the hybrid Sienna, once you are able to get one, will be able to get serviced relatively fast at a dealer. Tesla, perhaps not.

Also, while I’m admittedly not a fan of Elon Musk, at all, keep in mind it’s essentially fact now that AutoPilot will never work the way it’s advertised to work. And TESLA stock is down over 50% as of now, back to 2020 prices. You certainly may not be happy to buy a vehicle that is known to have service speed issues only to have the company itself go belly-up in the next year or two. Toyota will at least still be around, and parts available, for the foreseeable future.

Bottom line is while I’m certainly not brand loyal, you need to determine:
  • What are your requirements for a vehicle?
    • Minivans aren’t sedans, two totally different styles of vehicles with different usages
    • Tesla isn’t the only option for electric vehicles, including electric sedans
  • What are you willing to put up with?
    • For purchasing?
    • For future ownership, and cost and ease in service?
 

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So, you are upset about a Sienna dealer issues, and buy a Tesla. That's like your wife sending you for a gallon of milk, and you come back instead with potatoe chips. If you are in the market for a mini van, then there is Honda Odessy, Pacifica, or Kia, in addition to Sienna. You will likely find shortages there, also, and probably wont get the exact model you want with the equipment you want with these either.

I bought a 2023 Sienna XL:E at SVG Toyota in Washington Court House, Ohio, and had none of those dealer problems you mentioned.

I hope you like your Tesla...dont know what you paid, but they recently dropped the price as much as 20,000 on new Tesla's.
My 2023 Sienna price was 1500 more than the 2022 models, similarly equipped.
You better like your Tesla, because you will likely be "upside down " in it, because the used car price on Tesla's is falling like a rock...especially when they dropped the price of new Tesla's.

I cant tell you what car to buy..but I can tell you that you should START with your needs, especially space needs. The amount of room in the Sienna is vastly different than the Tesla and are not comparable.

My advice is to list your needs and wants in a car..start with how many people you plan to haul, and how far you intend to haul them.
Read up on the Tesla's. Do you travel over a few hundred miles? An EV may not be for you..if you have to charge it, you are gonna likely wait longer than you like.

I had trouble, at first, finding the Sienna. So, more effort may be necessary. Did you know you can order Sienna's online like the Tesla? There are companies which specialize in online, and some deliver.
I think you are rather confused, perhaps, because of some bad dealer experiences.

If you get bucked off the horse, you get back on..you dont run from him, or you will always fear horses.
 

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I feel old Sienna's has too much proprietary (predatory) electronics and software. New Sienna's are worse. Last thing I'd buy is a vehicle of nothing but proprietary electronics etc. like the Tesla. Envision junkyards full of undamaged vehicles from programming costing to much. All it takes is ten years depreciation or so. I'm seeing them there already.blowup Tesla
 

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I guess I do get it. $55-$60k can buy a lot of things cooler than a minivan. If you can suffer in a Model 3 Tesla then why not I guess? I actually do need the van though. I enjoy pissing off my family on very long roadtrips.
 

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Comparing a big minivan to a small sedan makes about as much sense as t*ts on a bull.

Figure out what your requirements are and go from there. If you're still in need of a minivan, there are other manufacturers you can consider besides Toyota.

BTW, take a look at an Odyssey. I had a 2nd gen Ody that lasted over 200,000 miles, even when it developed a jerky first-to-second gear shift when cold at 170,000 miles.
 

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Wow, great links, teslas are even worse than l thought. Regarding Elon Musk's Twitter and tesla antics: he is, by far, his own worst enemy.
The Silicon Valley attitudes of “move fast, break things” and “ask for forgiveness, not for permission” is in full force at Tesla. Figuring that humans get around with just two eyes, Musk had radar removed a couple of years back, followed by ultrasonic sensors last fall figuring that he can save lots of money by going with software only. Yes, both are standard on Sienna XLE and up, radar on LE. The Tesla does have more powerful computers on board.

Musk has poo-poohed LIDAR sensors used by all other autonomous driving companies, used to give an autonomous car a live 3D map of its surroundings, rather than relying on software algorithms only onboard a Tesla. Those companies have deployed pilot autonomous robotaxis, while “Full Self-Driving” that costs $15K is still stuck at SAE Level 2. Deploying FSD with subpar hardware on unwitting beta testers whose lives may be at stake is just bad.



Viral quote from a former Twitter software engineer.
 

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