[Broncofan]

I took my 2023 XLE for its first oil change yesterday. While I was there, I complained about the "quirky" infotainment system. It has a mind of its own.
I found out that Toyota Safety sense 3.0, apparently a software upgrade has a newer version, much improved and new user interface, including wireless android auto and apple car play.
Has anyone upgraded the software to TSS 3.0, and if so did it improve?
Considering that, for example, the cord is "a distraction" since it easily comes unplugged and, then you no longer have your maps up on Apple Car play. Instead, you have to fiddle with the phone/cord to get it working again. This distraction could/should be eliminated, by simply having Sienna drivers upgrade to TSS 3.0, apparently like some other Toyota models have.
CAn it be upgraded, or can I dowload the new version on my phone and install TSS 3.0 from my phone? Does anyone know?

 

[Sienna9816]

Based on what I have read around here and on toyota.com, at least one more sensor - Yaw sensor, is added in TSS 3.0. IIRC, front left turn braking might have another or better sensor too. I am sure that upgrading TSS is not an option for this and other reasons.

 

[elementZ]

I think you have a few misconceptions. Firstly Toyota safety sense has nothing to do with the infotainment. They are seperate. Wireless car play/android is not required for TSS

Secondly, Toyota safety sense 3.0 allows for OTA (over the air) updates. That does not mean you can take old versions and upgrade them. The sienna is still on TSS 2.0, not even 2.5. So the upgrade to 3.0 seems like a dream. It would be nice if Toyota skips 2.5 and just goes to 3.0. Who knows.

 

[Broncofan]

My Sienna is a 2023 XLE, and, my salesperson indicated it TSS 2.5, but maybe there is a way to check that, not that it may make much of a difference.
Yes, I notice it can/does connect to wifi, and, of course, it will also connect to my Iphone 13. Some Apps appear on my car screen when connected to the phone.
You are correct, I no doubt have "MORE THAN A FEW" misconceptions. And, the TSS probably is indedpendent of wireless car play, but, it sounds like TSS 3.0 upgrades both of these..the infotainment and the wireless car play. There is obvious interaction between my phone (obviously upgradable) and the car, which apparently is not upgradable, or at least might not be upgradable.
If it took some parts (hardware upgrades), too, then Im willing to go for that. This 2023 was just made in Dec. 2022, so it should have close to the very latest technology, what ever that is.
For example, I noticed few, if any 2023 Sienna owners had trouble with the battery rundown problem caused by the hands free sensors so prevalent in 2022 Sienna models. So, there had to be differences between the 2022 and 2023 Sienna's, even tho they may not be visible "even with a magnifying glass".

Since a computer (hardware) is only as good as its software, and, of course, this car and other new cars are becoming more and more "like a computer" every year, it makes sense this may be upgradable.

With a Lexus I recently owned, it had an on board navigation. It had 2017 "maps" since it was a 2017. The dealer is able to upgrade those maps, for a fee, of course. So, there is some device that hooks up to the car and enables an upgrade. I hypothesized this may also be available in the 2023 Sienna, with 6 year newer technology.

Since a new car is "mostly operated by computer", and, I know the importance of software upgrades for security in computers, it may be a design flaw that it can not be upgraded. The reason is, hackers may soon, if they havent already, figure out how to hack the car and steal it. Apparently this is already done by Kia's. The car sends out a signal looking for the key fob..your key fob. And, when it finds it, the car works. Well, this constant signal emitted by your car looking for a key fob definately means there is wireless capabilities. And, there is little doubt in informed minds, cars are hackable.

Therefore, a security upgrade is almost inevitably needed on any modern car with modern technology. "Along with" Security upgrades (that is, bug fixes which allow hacker access), most software companies "put in new features" with the security upgrade. This way, they can call it an "upgrade" instead of a "bug fix". Microsoft, for example, does not use the term "bug fix" as its very negative connotations. Instead, they call them Updates or upgrades, and sometimes throw in a new feature to motivate people to install upgrades.

Car companies, tho certainly not software experts, are likely to follow suit with Apple and Microsoft's naming convention using the terms upgrade and update, instead of the more realistic "bug fix". Its a bad vibe to pay 50 grand for a car needing a bug fix to keep it from being stolen or hacked, but its much better to "update to new features and cool stuff", oh, and also have bug fix patches installed at the same time.

Im hoping a nerd will or has and will publish a way to upgrade this to TSS 3.0. There should be little doubt this upgrade actually means a safer car, since it upgrades the Toyota Safety Sense, in no small part responsible for the safety technology such as adaptive cruise, or forward collission warning and braking.

Its "unconscionable" that Toyota would make its owners drive a "less safe" car, because they did not allow sofware upgrades almost certainly some of which woulld repair "bugs" in the saftey technologies.

 

[Broncofan]

To add, my key fob sends out a signal, that is intercepted by my car, with an electronic key which makes it work. So, hackers simply carry around a device, see you walking toward your car, and this device intercepts the key fob signal, copies it, and makes an electronic key. Your thief then follows you home, downloads the signal key he just stole, and makes a key fob with the key YOU gave him, and poof, he steals your car with the electronic key he made copying yours.

I dont know how to fix this security problem, but I think you can temporarily disable the key fob from broadcasting a signal that could be hijacked by hackers, by removing the fob battery or turning it off when not "actually in use" starting your car.

Car thieves have already figured this out, on Kia's. Its probably just a matter of time until they also do this on Toyota's...and it will take some kind of upgrade to prevent thieves from simply copying your electronic key which is emitted constantly by your key fob.

If the car company has the technology to "capture the fob electronic key signal", then surely a hacker can/has build a device to accomplsh this also.

Frankly I have no idea how they prevent hackers from stealing your car, because that technology pretty much has to be available, else the car company could not use a wireless key fob.

 

[Broncofan]

People are not gonna want to pay 50 k for a car, if you can instead just pick out someone else's, and with probably less than 500 dollars worht of technology, make your own key. No, Im not interested in becoming a car thief, but I dont want mine stolen, either. That would be "just too easy" for a car thief. If they try that with mine, sure it could work, but I park it in my driveway and there is a security camera there (ring), that tells me whenever someone enters my driveway. And, it broadcasts a sound, "you are currently being recorded"..and they are, too..and its online so it does not good to destroy my security camera..their picture is already stored online, and it works night or day. I would have video proof they stole my car...at least while in my driveway, where it is, most of the time Im not driving it. They also have security cameras in walmarts' and most every where else, too.

 

[Alurpal]

People are not gonna want to pay 50 k for a car, if you can instead just pick out someone else's, and with probably less than 500 dollars worht of technology, make your own key

What? You’re saying that 99% of people who are normally not thieves are going to stop buying vehicles normally and commit grand theft auto because it’s “easy” to hack the fob signal?

 

[Jetstreamblue]

(1) TSS has nothing to do with infotainment system. Sienna has TSS2.0. Version 2.5 requires a yaw sensor. Version 3 has different cameras (probably other hardware as well). There is no way to update the Sienna to the new versions. It is hardware, not just software.
(2) The infotainment system on several other models have been updated with wireless CarPlay support. It is completely different hardware, again no way Sienna system can be upgraded without changing to a new head unit.
(3) Smart key relay attacks for theft is well known. To prevent, you can turn off the smart key, or place key in a metal box or specialized signal blocking pouch. The Kia vulnerability that was well publicized has nothing to do with this. The Kias in question lack immobilize hardware so can be easily hot wired to start. Toyotas have immobilizers and do not have this vulnerability.

 

[Broncofan]

No, Im not saying "99 percent of people are car thieves", but, it only really takes "1" out of the million or so people in my city, to steal my car using the fob signal stealing device. Not all of them, just one. It reminds me of the guy at the beach.
He picked up a starfish, and threw it in the ocean. He walked a little farther, and picked up another and did so likewise. His bewildered friend asked what he was doing?
Well, that starfish will dry up and die, so I throw them in the ocean.
His friend responded, "that's crazy..you cant throw all the millions of starfish in the ocean..what does that one matter?"
He said, "Oh, but it matters a lot to "that one" starfish", but maybe not for you.
I cant stop all the car thieves, but I would like to stop "that one" who may steal my car.

I think you are right...there would be some "hardware" upgrades to upgrade to TSS 3.0 and not just software, perhaps even a new infotaiment screen. THis upgrade may well be "cost prohibitive". I have no idea "what" a "yaw" sensor is. It sounds like you know much more about this than me. A little reading suggests, however, that my Toyota already has a yaw sensor, but maybe not one in the radio?

 

[Holdme]

Modern day fob hacking is done through repeaters that are live hacks and not something someone is going to be able to do by simply following you to your car and making a clone like the old days. Rolling codes killed the old clone methods. These days someone walks up to your home at night, scans for an active fob broadcast signal and relays that back to the guy sitting next to your car so that the "live" signal is read by the car and it opens and will start. They would have to have a trailer setup nearby since you're car is going to auto disable itself obviously once the initial repeater is no longer sending that broadcast from the fob.

So a few things...
A.) No ones using this technology to get you in a parking lot since fobs only broadcast a couple feet and you're probably going to notice the sweaty guy standing on top of you while you're loading your milk in the back, not to mention his buddy standing next to your door.. at that point they may as well just rob you, why bother with the expensive repeater technology.
B.) Most modern vehicles now have protection against these types of ranged attacks by automatically putting your fobs into low power mode when movement hasn't been detected so that people who for some reason hang their keys right next to the front door arn't so easily hacked.
C.) If you're really worried about it spend a few bucks on a Faraday bag and call it a day.

 

[Sienna9816]

FWIW, holding the lock key and pushing unlock button twice puts the keyfob to sleep. You should see two red blinks. Walk up to the car with sleeping keyfob to confirm that you got it right a first few times.

This should help avoid someone using a repeater
to drive away your car.

Btw, car will continue to drive even if it can't detect a keyfob for safety reasons. However, this is enough for the thief to drive it hundreds of miles away before you know its gone.

 

[Holdme]

FWIW, holding the lock key and pushing unlock button twice puts the keyfob to sleep. You should see two red blinks. Walk up to the car with sleeping keyfob to confirm that you got it right a first few times.

This should help avoid someone using a repeater
to drive away your car.

Btw, car will continue to drive even if it can't detect a keyfob for safety reasons. However, this is enough for the thief to drive it hundreds of miles away before you know its gone.

My NX200t barely drove more than 4 houses away before it started shutting down the engine when my wife left her keys at home. I'd be shocked if the Toyota wasn't the same. Suppose I could test it sometime..

 

[leolizroy]

One would think that "Connected Services" would have an option to send a text when the car is started. It would not prevent theft, but you could immediately notify police and provide location if you/authorized person didn't just start the car.