what brand of synthetic oil should I use

I just got my '03 Sienna.......my 'other' vehicle is a 1996 Ford Windstar that I got in 1999, it now has over 220K miles on it.
Just for grins, I looked up the filter specifications on the WIX website....and found that my windstar filter is exactly the same as the filter called for on my Sienna.....EXCEPT that the windstar version is longer.
Here is a list of some manufacture numbers for the 2003 Sienna vs the Windstar.
Some folks like the idea of a slightly larger filter for more filter media.

2003 Sienna / 1996 3.8L Windstar
Bosch 72161 / 72143
Bosch Premium 3330 / 3422
WIX 51348 / 51516
ACDelco PF53 / PFL400A
Fram X2 XG3614 / XG3600
Mobil 1 M1-102 / M1-209
K&N HP-1002 / HP-2009
Purolator PL10241 or L10241 / PL20195 or L20195

If you have been reading bobistheoilguy, then you would know differently. The first generation Sienna uses the 1MZ-FE engine, which rightly or not has a reputation of being very hard on oil. The PCV system is apparently underdesigned for the engine, the head temperatures are exceptionally high, and the design of the gear-driven camshafts shears down the viscosity of the oil in a hurry. If there ever was a poster child for a top-quality synthetic oil, the 1MZ-FE engine is it.

I agree with you that modern conventional oils are much better than they used to be but your blanket statement that they are a waste of money is a generalization that is not correct for this engine. My ECHO's engine (1NZ-FE) is far easier on oil and in that application is entirely suitable.

Any name-brand synthetic will work but I will tell you that I got the best used oil analysis results from Mobil 1. I also used Syntec (both 5W-30 and German 0W-30) and they were OK as well. I have not used Amsoil but it is a fine oil and would serve you well. However, it is more expensive than Mobil 1 and this engine is best served with a short oil change interval. You can't hardly beat the price of M1 at Wal-Mart in the 5-quart container. Buy Toyota oil filters (made by Denso) on e-Bay and get M1 at Wal-Mart. Change the oil before 7500 miles and you will get many years of service out of your van.

Homer said:

Synth is a waste of money since all mineral oil API SM oil are robust and can be ran for 5000 to 6000 miles but I certainly respect your choice.

For all kind of opinion and knowledge visit http://www.bobistheoilguy.com you have all you need to know available, hours and hours of reading,, enjoy ;D

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kschachn,

Gazillions of 1MZ-FE are running fine on conventional oil. However I have no data of used oil analysis to compare conventional and synthetic in this particular application so you may be right for this particular application, but let me be sceptical

Now if synthetic might be better, how much better ?? Much longer engine life, measurable difference on a constant basis ?

This is why I truly beleive that it is a waste of money if you change your oil between 5 and 6k I agree that some peoples might sleep better on synthetic oil but in my book and experience its overkill. If carriageroom really want to know then his only reliable source of info for money well spent on oil is with a UOA, nothing else.

Engine oil is a never ending debate, so many b....sh t in advertising, so many people reporting placebo effect, so many bobistheoilguy members disapointed to see that there is no Holy Graal engine oil, So many oil freak depressed to realised that after years of futile discussion and debate that all they had to do was changing the oil on a regular basis with a Castrol, QS PYP etc etcl product to give them years and years of service.

Carriageroom dont fall in that engine oil trap, whatever oil you are going to use isn't really important.Buy a good mineral, save your money for a good supper instead I'm willing to bet that very same engine will be the one use to power the van to the scrap yard the day that everything else will be shot ;-))

The only way to know if your engine is tough on oil is through used oil analysis. The rest is just opinion, gut feeling or ear say.

One example is when GM started to promote their oil life monitor, man o man, doing more than 5000 km on regular engine oil was totally insane for many engine oil freak and GM was totally out of their mind to promote that. Well why should we stop waisting oil ? Why trying to help the environement. Who knows more than me in my backyard, I know what my engine needs....bla bla bla 50 pages on Bobistheoilguys well....


I have personnaly spent a few hundreds of dollars over 2 to 3 years period on UAO done by Wearcheck located in Missisauga at that time when I was driving a Buick Century 3.1 and a Pontiac Montana 3.4. I was following the oil life monitor religiously , the milleage vary between 8000 to 11000km and every time the result came back with oil in good condition for service, wear metal ok, on few occasion I had high silicone and synthetic oil or not I would a have high silicone. The UOA where from winter driving highway and city driving, so mineral was all I needed then. Furthermore the oil analysis done saved my butt on the century, the analysis detected the stupid intake manifold coolant leak ( high sodium, potassium and glycol) so common on 3.1 and 3.4 just before the end of the powertrain warranty.

Yes synth,oil is better on paper, but there is not enough difference in real life to justify the cost. However synth,seems to work better in peoples mind, imagine somes are talking about the need to readjust idling RPM, quicker throttle response , engine running colder, and what else..... The most important additive that you find in engine oil is not the Zinc, Calcium, the Boron or the moly, its called.......... marketing the more marketing the more protection ;D

I have read the different opinions on oil changes over the years. A lot say every 3,000 miles. Some say every 5,000 miles. Some sarcastically ask why people think they know better than the manufacturer. The most preposterous statement I have seen was on Cartalk, the man who claimed we dummies who use synthetic oil are suffering from a placebo effect. That is, we only imagine synthetic oil has any advantage.

After years of this nonsense, I decided it was time to find out for myself. So, I sent a sample into Blackstone labs. I do not recommend it over the other lab Homer listed, it just happened to be the one I knew about.

He is right. It not only tells you the true condition of your oil. It also gives you a lot of information on your engine condition, as he commented.

After seeing my lab report, here is what I have learned to my satisfaction.

When to change your oil depends primarily upon your driving pattern and condition of the motor. If your driving pattern is different, your oil's condition will be different, period. If your motor has picked up a problem such as his (manifold?) problem or blow-by, your oil will deteriorate faster. I live in a Mexican quarry town, a dusty Mexican quarry town 5800 feet above sea level, so I will pick up more silicon, and it may be necessary for me to change the air filter more often. The lab test clues you in very well.

If you live in the Snow Belt, your winter driving pattern will be different than your summer driving pattern, unless it is all on the highway. So, how often to change your oil may differ from winter to summer.

My driving pattern is mixed, but mostly highway driving, and most of it's time is spent out of the Snow Belt. I left here October 1st, and returned October 31 for Day of the Dead, having driven 5400 miles. While my car is here, I may drive a couple thousand miles over six months, with a few short trips around town every week, and every week or two a 4 hour trip for groceries. This was all included in the 8800 mile test mentioned below.

When I tested my oil in October, it had 8800 miles, using Mobil-1 EP (15,000 mile rated.) I deliberately extended it to find out for once and for all the truth about oil life -- with my driving pattern!

tbn was still 2, so I could have gone to 10,000 miles with no acid damage. Overall condition was still very good. In fact, Blackstone recommended I re-test in another 7,000 miles!!!!

Motor was in good shape, no excess wear in bearings or in valve train. No blow-by; no contamination from coolant.

Even with the information on hand my motor (which had 158,000 miles on it and only uses a quart every 4,000 miles, when I took the sample) was doing great, and the oil was still usable, there were some hot-heads who insisted if I really cared for my car -- like they do, of course -- I would change it every 3,000 miles. Blechhh!!!

If someone tells you to change your oil every 3,000 or 5,000 or 6,000 miles, you can be sure they are guessing, because they don't know your driving pattern, nor the condition of your engine which affects oil life.

Unless my driving pattern changes, I will be changing my oil at 7,500 miles, which gives plenty of lee-way.

I will also be doing an oil analysis every year or two, to keep track of my motor's condition. I did not think I would do it more than one time, for learning, but having seen the information I can get on motor condition, I think it's well worth the cost. And, the money saved on not changing the oil more often than is needed, will pay for most of the lab test.

People also disagree on oil sludging. As far as I can tell, synthetic oil resists sludging better than dino on models which tend to sludge. (i.e. - some Toyotas) For those who want to argue, and they exist, that is exactly why they use synthetic oil in race cars, because regular oil burns and turns bad when it is over-heated, which is one of the causes of excess sludging in certain Toyota models. I just read of sludging at 60,000 miles on a Toyota car that had dino oil allegedly changed no less often than manufacturer's recommendation.

I don't care what anyone does, except give out bad information. If you want to change oil every 3,000 miles, go for it. Just don't tell other people they must do it, just because you decided to. And, no, I do not think that makes you responsible for the deaths of all 6 billion people on the planet. Properly recycled oil is not going to do enough damage to criticize those who want to change their oil too often.

And, it is true, that oil changes every 3,000 miles, even if technically wasted, do not represent a major part of car costs. It may not extend the life of the car over any other proper change cycle, in fact it almost certainly does not, but if it makes you feel good, go for it.

It is absolutely correct.....oil advice on a forum is going to be mostly opinion.
My posts were opinion only.......I first gave some alternate numbers for a longer oil filter....
Some folks like to use a larger filter.
There is not documented proof that a larger filter will do anything to make your motor last longer.
Having it stick out a little further on the 1MZ-FE motor seems to make it easier to change.......

As for the advice about 5K mile oil change with synthetic, the 2001 Sienna is within the Toyota acknowledged window for the "gelling" issue for the 1MZ-FE motor in the Sienna.
What the cause of the Gelling actually is has been the subject of a lot of debate.......
One thing seems to stand out....(again my opinion) based upon what I have read.......the motor on the 2001 Sienna is a bit less forgiving......and is more likely to have the Gelling issue than some other motors out there.
Speculation has been made about temperatures in the head area of the motor......speculation has been made about temperature differences.......the difference between the min and max temperature levels within the motor.
In THEORY, a good quality synthetic oil is more able to stand up to the higher temperatures than a conventional oil.
True, conventional oils have come a long way over the years, and just because it says "Synthetic on the label does not mean that it is the best oil to use.
Also, it is best to stay within the viscosity specified by TOYOTA, unless someone who is really in the know advises you otherwise.

Most folks do not want to be bothered with having their oil tested by a lab.
Certainly, if one chooses to go longer than the TOYOTA specified maximum of 7500 miles.....getting the oil tested is a good move.
Keep in mind that a just having your oil tested and getting the results is only PART of the story.
Some tests are pretty basic......all the way up to a very detailed analysis of the results with advice from someone who knows how to interpret the data.
HOWEVER, going longer than 7500 miles is against what TOYOTA specifies.......so, again......that is something that I would advise against without the lab testing AND advise from someone in the know.......FAR more knowledgeable than I am.

The 5K mile is on the 'severe' schedule that TOYOTA lists.
So my OPINION is that as a General "rule of thumb" one would be on the safe side to change the oil every 5K using a quality Synthetic oil, 5W-30, unless your manual or a TSB states otherwise.
That is a oil change program that should cover

Again, I emphasize that I am stating my opinion.....as I am not any expert on the subject....

You are exactly right on the less stress on oil at normal freeway driving, wlswind. That is why a person's driving pattern is relevant to how often the oil needs to be changed to avoid exposing your motor to bad oil. The person who drives two miles to work in cold weather, then two miles back home is virtually guaranteed to be exposing a motor to bad oil. Nobody is going to change oil every 250 miles even though that driving pattern probably calls for it. ;D

I also agree absolutely that most people do not want to test their oil. That option is strictly for the person who really wants to know what is happening, as opposed to guessing. In my case, after years of debate on Cartalk forums, with every sort of opinion expressed, in many cases with flames and insults, even pure nonsense such as the claim that only the placebo effect made synthetics better, I decided I wanted to know what was really happening. I thought, enough of this nonsense.

To my surprise, as I said above, it's like being able to walk around inside your motor and check the condition of bearings and valve train and gaskets and more. Amazing.

There are only two places where I perhaps have a different viewpoint.

First, it is not only in theory that a good (key word there, 'good', I do agree the word synthetic is not enough) synthetic is able to stand up to higher temperatures. This is apparently the reason 'good' synthetics are used in powerful race cars, which run at very high engine temperatures during a race. I suspect but do not know that a good synthetic can gell, but if it can, I am sure it takes a lot more bad stuff happening to it to gell it.

Younger men may not remember Tom McCahill, who was a very popular automotive writer in the 50's and 60's, I think, for Mechanix Illustrated magazine. He reported back then that when a race car pulled in from the track and was expected to sit for a length of time, the oil, dino oil in those days, had to be immediately drained, or it turned into a gell like substance that had to be scraped out of the oil pan manually.

It is the over-temps which cause that gelling of oil. Not in an hour as on a race car, but perhaps slowly over time, which is why gelling may be linked to excessively long oil use cycles for dino oil. Think slow cooking, crock pot.

As far as the Toyota gelling in past years, Tom and Ray at the time discussed it. Their belief, as I remember it with an imperfect memory, was that model of Toyota engine had a place which got much hotter than it should have been, perhaps due to a cooling design flaw, and this cooked the oil as it passed there, well before the recommended change time.

And, yes, of course, people who didn't change it for 20,000 miles were guaranteed gelling.

At the time, Tom and Ray went a bit overboard, claiming if Toyota engines gelled after 20,000 miles with no oil change, and other engines did not, then Toyota was responsible for those gelled motors. My viewpoint is, if you exceed the recommended oil changes, you, not Toyota, are responsible for the results. (Which is part of the reason I had my Mobil-1 tested at 8800 miles on the oil with car mileage of 158,000 miles so I would know, and my oil was still good.) If owners changed oil as recommended, they would never know that 20,000 miles gelled their oil, when other motors do not. When it gelled within the recommended change time, then in my opinion, it is Toyota's engine. Clearly, others have a different opinion.

I have no problem when people change oil. If they change it every 3,000 miles who cares? They are in many cases wasting oil, but that is what personal liberty is all about. And, in the lack of true information, they are much more likely to protect their motor in almost all driving conditions except my hypothetical 4 mile a day driving scenario. Ditto for not changing it for 60,000 miles -- did y'all see that picture of the BMW that was treated that way? It looked like the motor was filled with black Jello[TM]. I don't care; it's not my car nor my motor, and I suspect the owner now knows better. I have better things to worry about than some silly person who drives a car 60,000 miles on factory oil.

On the other hand, recently I saw a video of a woman, obviously not a young one, who has owned a 1967 Comet with 540,000 miles. Seriously. And, it is still a cream puff. Imagine how much money she has put into maintaining that car, but it has obviously long ago become a human to her. Heh, heh.

The only thing that bothers me is when people get nasty about it, as they usually do on Cartalk. Tell when you change it and why, let others do the same, and those seeking help can make their own decision.