[DC_Dave]

So, we have a new-to-us engine coming out of a 2010 Camry (I don't know what I'm going to have to swap over from the old engine yet, I know the water pump is the same).

In preparing for the job, we're trying to determine what we should change/freshen up while the engine is out and on the replacement engine. Car was in service until last month, rear end damage only. Runs and drives.

Please let me know what else you would replace while the engine/transmission/transfer/lower front suspension are out of the car? The '08 AWD is original front end and drivetrain.

Here are the thoughts so far, what do you think?:

1. Engine
   1. All new Plugs
   2. Three new rear coils (We'll have 6 spares)
   3. Valve cover gaskets
   4. Re-seal timing cover?
   5. Should we do the water pump even if it looks good?.
2. Transfer case (seep/leak at the RH bearing retainer vent, T-SB-0138-10).
   1. Replace RH Bearing Retainer Oil Seal No. 2
      1. Output seals?
      2. Other seals?
3. CV Joint boots? (joints seem fine so far, boots are in good shape)
   1. Replace boots
      1. Front boot kits
      2. Moog clamps
4. Hubs
   1. Should we get new bearings pressed onto the hubs?
5. Front suspension
   1. Stabilizer bar links
   2. Replace struts now? (KYB strut-plus)? Struts seem fine @ 153k, but might be getting to EOL.
   3. Moog strut mounts?
   4. Replace ball joints (we have them)
   5. Tie rod boots (we have them)
6. Propeller shaft (seems fine)
   1. U-Joints or support bearings?
   2. Can always do this later if a problem arise

 

[Jagz]

I would do a full Transfer case reseal, and water pump. Will be worth it in the long run.
Timing cover I would do it only if it was leaking.
Struts and hubs again I would only replace them if they are going bad, currently going on OEM struts with 250k miles soon replacing them due to bad strut mount bushings.
I would also check out the Engine mounts, if any are going bad this would be the perfect time to replace them.
everything else looks fine.
This is my opinion everyone else may have different opinions.

I believe Toyota sells a kit of every seal for $70 for the transfer case, Toyota Sienna Gasket kit, transfer overhaul. Driveline, transmission - 0436248010 | Heartland Toyota, Bremerton WA

 

[jiantao]

I'd definitely replace the water pump while the engine is out.

I would go ahead and change whatever seals you can, as it's much easier with the engine out. I don't know how common the timing cover seal is, but I would change it.

Usually, the transmission is pulled to replace a rear main seal, but could you replace that with the engine out too?

Does the donor Camry engine have 153K miles, or the old Sienna engine has 153K miles? Curious what went wrong with the Sienna's original engine?

 

[wax6moon]

So, we have a new-to-us engine coming out of a 2010 Camry (I don't know what I'm going to have to swap over from the old engine yet, I know the water pump is the same).

In preparing for the job, we're trying to determine what we should change/freshen up while the engine is out and on the replacement engine. Car was in service until last month, rear end damage only. Runs and drives.

Please let me know what else you would replace while the engine/transmission/transfer/lower front suspension are out of the car? The '08 AWD is original front end and drivetrain.

Here are the thoughts so far, what do you think?:

1. Engine
   1. All new Plugs
   2. Three new rear coils (We'll have 6 spares)
   3. Valve cover gaskets
   4. Re-seal timing cover?
   5. Should we do the water pump even if it looks good?.
2. Transfer case(seep/leak at the RH bearing retainer vent, T-SB-0138-10).
   1. Replace RH Bearing Retainer Oil Seal No. 2
      1. Output seals?
      2. Other seals?
3. CV Joint boots?(joints seem fine so far, boots are in good shape)
   1. Replace boots
      1. Front boot kits
      2. Moog clamps
4. Hubs
   1. Should we get new bearings pressed onto the hubs?
5. Front suspension
   1. Stabilizer bar links
   2. Replace struts now? (KYB strut-plus)? Struts seem fine @ 153k, but might be getting to EOL.
   3. Moog strut mounts?
   4. Replace ball joints (we have them)
   5. Tie rod boots (we have them)
6. Propeller shaft(seems fine)
   1. U-Joints or support bearings?
   2. Can always do this later if a problem arise

Timing belt?

 

[bencahill]

Timing belt?

The 2007-2010 Sienna has a 2GR-FE 3.5L which has a timing chain, as opposed to the 2004-2006 Sienna with the 3MZ-FE 3.3L which has a timing belt.

I agree with others that you should do the water pump. It is a bit difficult to replace (I have done it) and from what I've heard is somewhat common. I would pay the bit extra for the potential extra tens of thousands of miles.

 

[DC_Dave]

The 2010 Camry engine has 71k miles and from the carfax appears to have been dealer serviced every 5k miles.

The old Sienna has 153k miles.

Thanks for the GREAT advice! Aisin water pumps are $82, so I'll put it on the list.

Long story short: 2008 Sienna AWD w/153k maintained within inches of its life (I keep a spreadsheet), but still on the original radiator. Changing the battery in Costco parking lot, I broke one of the small hose connections off the radiator filler neck (this is a common occurrence). I overheated the car on the highway coming home, pulled over, and had it flatbed home. Changed the radiator filler neck, and drove the car for a couple of hours, and everything seemed OK. Took the van to the mountains (1hr from anywhere), and it lost coolant. Discovered a radiator leak in the mountains, and decided to try to make it home by stopping and filling the radiator everytime the motor got to 250F. Motor kept getting hotter quicker, and ended up having to get a flatbed home.

Once home, discovered that cylinder 2 had coolant leaking in. Unwilling to risk a failed head gasket repair, found a replacement engine through LKQ. There's a thread on finding a motor: 2GR-FE Replacement Engine Compatibility &amp...

Keep those thoughts coming!

 

[jiantao]

The 2010 Camry engine has 71k miles and from the carfax appears to have been dealer serviced every 5k miles.

The old Sienna has 153k miles.

Thanks for the GREAT advice! Aisin water pumps are $82, so I'll put it on the list.

Long story short: 2008 Sienna AWD w/153k maintained within inches of its life (I keep a spreadsheet), but still on the original radiator. Changing the battery in Costco parking lot, I broke one of the small hose connections off the radiator filler neck (this is a common occurrence). I overheated the car on the highway coming home, pulled over, and had it flatbed home. Changed the radiator filler neck, and drove the car for a couple of hours, and everything seemed OK. Took the van to the mountains (1hr from anywhere), and it lost coolant. Discovered a radiator leak in the mountains, and decided to try to make it home by stopping and filling the radiator everytime the motor got to 250F. Motor kept getting hotter quicker, and ended up having to get a flatbed home.

Once home, discovered that cylinder 2 had coolant leaking in. Unwilling to risk a failed head gasket repair, found a replacement engine through LKQ. There's a thread on finding a motor: 2GR-FE Replacement Engine Compatibility &amp...

Keep those thoughts coming!

Oh no, that's a sad ending to your Sienna engine's life

Those radiators can be real killers. They commonly do fail around the 120-150K mark, or around 15-17 years... or something in that ballpark. Going forward, I plan on changing radiators as "preventative maintenance" on all my cars.

How much are you paying for the Camry V6 engine itself, and how much are you paying in total?

 

[DC_Dave]

I know, right?

Yes, I knew the radiator was a weak point, but I had hoped that my regular coolant drain & fill with factory fluid would afford us more warning There's a new radiator in the car now, along with hoses. Hopefully, we'll be good for another 100k+ miles! The '08 has been replaced by a new-to-us '15 XLE AWD 57k as our primary ski vehicle. Don't know whether we'll keep the '08 long term, but it might be nice to have a 2nd snow capable vehicle (new snows on the snow wheels last year).

We paid $1350 + $125 core for the Camry engine from LKQ. Called and drove all over the DC metro looking for a motor, but could never find anything in a salvage yard that was any good. I found one "low mile" motor lying dipstick side down in the mud that turned out to have 170k once I spent $20 to pull the carfax. Best price I found on sight-unseen local motors was $1000 with 150k+. The best part of the LKQ experience was their rep, Keith, who rendered great service and seemed very trustworthy.

 

[jiantao]

I know, right?

Yes, I knew the radiator was a weak point, but I had hoped that my regular coolant drain & fill with factory fluid would afford us more warning There's a new radiator in the car now, along with hoses. Hopefully, we'll be good for another 100k+ miles! The '08 has been replaced by a new-to-us '15 XLE AWD 57k as our primary ski vehicle. Don't know whether we'll keep the '08 long term, but it might be nice to have a 2nd snow capable vehicle (new snows on the snow wheels last year).

We paid $1350 + $125 core for the Camry engine from LKQ. Called and drove all over the DC metro looking for a motor, but could never find anything in a salvage yard that was any good. I found one "low mile" motor lying dipstick side down in the mud that turned out to have 170k once I spent $20 to pull the carfax. Best price I found on sight-unseen local motors was $1000 with 150k+. The best part of the LKQ experience was their rep, Keith, who rendered great service and seemed very trustworthy.

Hopefully you'll be good to go for a long time with the new engine. I don't think the '08 will be worth much if you sell it, so it would make sense to keep it as a 2nd snow vehicle, especially if you already have snow tires for it.

I wonder if the overheating will have other consequences down the road... such as faster deterioration of other coolant hoses in the engine like the heater core hoses.

That's not a bad price for the used engine with only 71K, are you installing it yourself?

 

[DC_Dave]

Thanks for the idea - I'll change the heater core hoses while I'm in there, too.

Yes, I'm really happy with the engine so far and installing it myself with the help of a friend, hence the list of things people would change while the motor is out - labor is cheap! I've never done a motor swap before, but have been doing all my own work for a few decades.

 

[DC_Dave]

OK, the motor is in. No leaks, no smoke, no parts leftover... and no codes!

Runs great!

Replaced water pump (the donor water pump looked... brand new!), resealed the transfer case, all the coolant lines, new thermostat & gasket, plugs, 3 new rear Denso coils (now have 9 spares for 2 vans), rebooted the axles, por-15 on the steering rack rust, fluid film on the inaccessible rusty bits, the motor is so smooth and quiet. But... cold engine piston slap remains!

Motor replacement took 7 days (was hoping for 4). This is a big job.

Here are a few tips:
1) Mark all the connections when taking things apart. Used bright green painter's tape. Remove the green tape as the connections are re-made. This allows you to spot connections that are still not restored. Leave as many nuts and bolts back in their locations as possible. Labeled plastic baggies with a sharpie for each set of fasteners (intake, wiper cowl, front exhaust manifold, PS, Alternator, etc., etc.). Everything was placed into plastic storage bins in the order that it came off. This made replacing everything in order easy. Once the powertrain was out, it was placed next to the new motor in the same orientation. The wiring harness was disconnected from the old motor & labeled, and the connection points on the new motor were labeled at the same time. E.g., label injector 6 connector on the wiring harness, then label injector 6 on the new motor, etc.

2) Used an old PC (running Linux) sitting on a nearby desk or in the engine bay to follow the shop manual procedure at tsienna.net. The diagrams showing fastener torque are invaluable. I loved following the procedures because I always knew what to do next. No head-scratching there.

3) The passenger side rear body mount dowels froze in the subframe bushing sleeve (like in the video). We tried EVERYTHING. If I had been a pro, I would have burned it out and replaced the subframe bushing. Instead, we cut 4 corners in the bottom of the bushing sleeve, sharpened the square edges of a 1/2" female to 3/4" male HF chrome vanadium impact adapter. Hammered the 3/4" adapter into the bottom of the bushing sleeve, and used a Milwaukee M18 high torque impact (1400ft-lb) to beat it lose. Prior to the impact, I was beating on it with a 3lb hammer and 2ft pry bar.

4) When setting the new motor in place, we used two pairs of tie-downs in addition to the chains bolted into the lift points to control the attitude and angle of the motor when approaching the transmission in the subframe. Each pair allowed us to tighten AND loosen in small increments to adjust the angle of the motor on two axes.

5) We lifted/supported the transmission and transfer case from below when moving the engine into position - this allowed us to align the dowel pins between the engine & transmission and attach them.

Hope that helps!

Photo Mid Engine Replacement

 

[Jagz]

OK, the motor is in. No leaks, no smoke, no parts leftover... and no codes!

Runs great!

Replaced water pump (the donor water pump looked... brand new!), resealed the transfer case, all the coolant lines, new thermostat & gasket, plugs, 3 new rear Denso coils (now have 9 spares for 2 vans), rebooted the axles, por-15 on the steering rack rust, fluid film on the inaccessible rusty bits, the motor is so smooth and quiet. But... cold engine piston slap remains!

Motor replacement took 7 days (was hoping for 4). This is a big job.

Here are a few tips:
1) Mark all the connections when taking things apart. Used bright green painter's tape. Remove the green tape as the connections are re-made. This allows you to spot connections that are still not restored. Leave as many nuts and bolts back in their locations as possible. Labeled plastic baggies with a sharpie for each set of fasteners (intake, wiper cowl, front exhaust manifold, PS, Alternator, etc., etc.). Everything was placed into plastic storage bins in the order that it came off. This made replacing everything in order easy. Once the powertrain was out, it was placed next to the new motor in the same orientation. The wiring harness was disconnected from the old motor & labeled, and the connection points on the new motor were labeled at the same time. E.g., label injector 6 connector on the wiring harness, then label injector 6 on the new motor, etc.

2) Used an old PC (running Linux) sitting on a nearby desk or in the engine bay to follow the shop manual procedure at tsienna.net. The diagrams showing fastener torque are invaluable. I loved following the procedures because I always knew what to do next. No head-scratching there.

3) The passenger side rear body mount dowels froze in the subframe bushing sleeve (like in the video). We tried EVERYTHING. If I had been a pro, I would have burned it out and replaced the subframe bushing. Instead, we cut 4 corners in the bottom of the bushing sleeve, sharpened the square edges of a 1/2" female to 3/4" male HF chrome vanadium impact adapter. Hammered the 3/4" adapter into the bottom of the bushing sleeve, and used a Milwaukee M18 high torque impact (1400ft-lb) to beat it lose. Prior to the impact, I was beating on it with a 3lb hammer and 2ft pry bar.

4) When setting the new motor in place, we used two pairs of tie-downs in addition to the chains bolted into the lift points to control the attitude and angle of the motor when approaching the transmission in the subframe. Each pair allowed us to tighten AND loosen in small increments to adjust the angle of the motor on two axes.

5) We lifted/supported the transmission and transfer case from below when moving the engine into position - this allowed us to align the dowel pins between the engine & transmission and attach them.

Hope that helps!

Photo Mid Engine Replacement

Great job, I know how painful it is to get one that sleeve to come off, I spent around 2 to 4 hours if not more, decided to go purchase a large pry bar for $20 and that got her out quickl for me at least lol.

Hope she runs great for you a long time.

 

[greenlight]

Congrats!

Yeah, these 2GR-FEs just seem to slap. My old engine had a bad case of cold startup slap; the new one has a little bit of slap but not bad (yet!). When I got the new engine I looked into the intake openings (manifold had to come off to exchange the valley coolant pipe assembly), and I could see a bit of scoring on cylinder #4, so I expected a little slap. But thankfully it's fairly quiet and uses almost no oil.

@Jagz - I tried a big pry bar and all it did was bend the top of the mount. Whacking on the underside of the sleeve with a hammer is what finally got mine loose - but it looks like DC_Dave had a worse case of it.

- G

 

[floridanative]

Thanks for the details! Did you pull the bumper, radiator, etc and bring it out the front?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[DC_Dave]

Mike, unfortunately, no. I've heard tell the engine will come out the front, but I've never seen it, and the service manual procedure is to drop it through the bottom, so that's what everyone seems to do. If you were to pull it out the front, I don't know how you would avoid the bottom of the windshield.

Jagz, we tried to soak the mount in pb blaster, and used a 2+ foot pry bar with a steel pad for beating with a 3lb hammer. As you know, reaching through the back of the wheel well, you can put the tip of the pry bar on top of the mount and pound on it to drive it between the body and the mount. I think in most cases, that would work.

The impact adapter worked like magic. File 4 little corners on the sleeve, grind the rounded edges off the adapter, pound it in and done. Couldn't budge it with a 4ft cheater bar, but that high torque impact got it out in about 5 minutes.

Body mount adapter

 

[floridanative]

Mike, unfortunately, no. I've heard tell the engine will come out the front, but I've never seen it, and the service manual procedure is to drop it through the bottom, so that's what everyone seems to do. If you were to pull it out the front, I don't know how you would avoid the bottom of the windshield.

Hmmm, that's what I as afraid of. So, I guess you had access to a proper vehicle lift? Otherwise, I'm not sure how you would get the van up high enough.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[greenlight]

When I did that job, I was able to sufficiently lift the van using a pair of 6-ton HF jack stands and a floor jack with a few pieces of scrap board. I had the rear wheels tied down on ramps.

- G

 

[DC_Dave]

As greenlight said, just jacks and jack stands. I bought one of those HF low profile high lift Daytonas for the job, it has the little pump pedal to position the saddle and lifts 24". Love it! I did buy a 2T shop crane for the job, and that's what we used to move the engines through the air. We used two of those 18" x 30" HF furniture dollies (per greenlight) - one to hold the subframe (the frame cross rails land right on the carpeted portion of the dolly) and one to hold the new engine on its pallet. One jack in front, and two jacks on each of the rear corners of the subframe.

If you're lifting the body, make sure you have something to protect the body lift points. My buddy made two squares of 2x4 and cut slots in them. Work awsome to protect the lift point tabs. I also had those plastic protective shoes on my jack stands.

 

[greenlight]

If you're lifting the body, make sure you have something to protect the body lift points. My buddy made two squares of 2x4 and cut slots in them. Work awsome to protect the lift point tabs. I also had those plastic protective shoes on my jack stands.

Not having done the magic that DC_Dave and his buddy did, I only use the edge lift points when using the tire changing jack, but not when using a floor jack - I place the floor jack under the frame rail, with a thin piece of board in there to help avoid damaging the frame. I also put the jack stands under the frame rails, with rubber cushions installed on the jack stands. I think there are published locations for lifting the vehicle.

- G