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the sienna hybrid (which is similar drive terrain) is a full 1 second slower than the v6 model from a 0-60 standpoint. With a heavier vehicle like Sienna, I expect it to be a noticable difference
 

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I just think the 4th gen is so ugly I would definitely get a 2020 instead just because of that, resale value be damned. It looks like a cross between the Odyssey and Pacifica... not a good thing. Of course, to each his own, and I'm sure some people think it looks mighty fine...
 

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So, I'm not alone in not caring for the 2021 exterior design?
Some of us including me think that the 2021 looks better. It certainly doesn't look much different than the previous model year. Even if I didn't, I'd buy the 2021 for its superior technology - particularly the full-speed cruise control, Android Auto and the assumed much improved crash safety.

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So, I'm not alone in not caring for the 2021 exterior design?
I just don't like how long it looks, like the Pacifica, that bulge above the rear wheel well, and how it has the Odyssey's C-pillar design and chrome window trim. But one thing I like in terms of design, is how the roof slopes downwards less from front to back in the 4th gen versus the 3rd gen. It's a silly design choice that I think looks bad and is dumb (reduces 3rd row headroom especially by a good 1.5-2").
 

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Reliability wise I think the 2020 is a good purchase since they've been making that Gen for over a decade and the 2021 is going to be a first year model. With the exception of the non removable seats I like everything about the 2021 better. I like the looks on the 2021 better, except that I hate the fake intake ducts under the rear lights. It's the same in the Camry and I don't understand why they put them there, its as if the 2016-2018 Prius (2019 was early redesign to fix) designers were called in to make some design decisions.
 

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I just don't like how long it looks, like the Pacifica, that bulge above the rear wheel well, and how it has the Odyssey's C-pillar design and chrome window trim. But one thing I like in terms of design, is how the roof slopes downwards less from front to back in the 4th gen versus the 3rd gen. It's a silly design choice that I think looks bad and is dumb (reduces 3rd row headroom especially by a good 1.5-2").
Wow! 1.5 to 2 inches less 3rd row headroom? Where did you find those specifications? I haven't seen any interior dimension specifications for the gen 4 Sienna yet.

The gen 3 Sienna, except for the Limited which has dual sunroofs, has 38.3 inches of headroom in the third row. OK, subtract 2 inches from that which equals 36.3 inches of headroom. The pretty roomy Lexus LS400 I bought new over 30 years ago had 35.7 inches of rear headroom in the back seat which was plenty for a 6 footer like me and substantially more headroom than the BMW 7-series of that era had. So, even if the gen 4 Sienna has "only" 36.3 inches of headroom in the 3rd row it's still going to be more than adequate for most adults and especially so when it's often the kids that get put in the 3rd row.

I guess it comes down to if you are a "form over function" sort of person. I like pretty things but I'm much more a "function guy". That said, when comparing the gen 3 and gen 4 Sienna exteriors, I would use the word "ungainly" to describe the gen 3 Sienna and the word "sleek" to describe the gen 4 Sienna. I thought the gen 3 Sienna looked much better before I saw the gen 4.

Of course my idea of what looks acceptable may be a bit different. I was enamored with the Checker Marathon after enlisting a fleet of 8-passenger Checker taxi cabs to shuttle 40 members of the Kansas City Ski Club from Boulder, Colorado to the Eldora ski area in 1977 after our club bus broke down. I thought about buying a Marathon but ended up buying a similarly utilitarian 1979 Mercedes Diesel instead. Isn't the Checker Marathon beautiful?

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Some of us including me think that the 2021 looks better. It certainly doesn't look much different than the previous model year. Even if I didn't, I'd buy the 2021 for its superior technology - particularly the full-speed cruise control, Android Auto and the assumed much improved crash safety.

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Oh I see, its ok for you to assume much improved crash safety even before the Sienna is released but for the guys saying its under powered, you go all nuts!
 

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Oh I see, its ok for you to assume much improved crash safety even before the Sienna is released but for the guys saying its under powered, you go all nuts!
Toyota has methodically addressed issues found in IIHS crash tests when models were redesigned. An excellent example is the 2012 Prius v wagon like we have owned since new. When the IIHS subjected it to the "Small overlap front: driver-side" crash test, it failed miserably and received the lowest "Poor" rating. When the Prius v was subjected to the same test again after a major redesign for the 2015 model year, it received the highest "Good" rating.

Toyota did something less aggressive when it added additional welds to the Sienna body structure for the 2015 model year to bring the rating for the same "Small overlap front: driver-side" crash test from Marginal up to Acceptable. That improvement was without making any visual changes to the Sienna exterior.

Toyota has a strong record of improving vehicle crash safety to address issues found by the IIHS and to allow for future requirements. A further example in the 2021 Sienna is the addition of 2nd row side airbags.

Regarding the gen 4 2021 Sienna, "The guys saying its under powered" have not driven it. There have been no published road tests by journalists that I can find. They are basing their statements on guessing. I have favorable expectation due to my experiences with a variety of Toyota and Lexus hybrid vehicles, none of which were under powered. Drive a RAV4, Avalon and/or ES300h hybrid and tell me that they are under powered. They all have 4-cylinder engines. The new RAV4 PHEV is insanely quick. The only faster accelerating Toyota is the BMW-supplied Supra. The combined power/torque of electric motors and internal combustion engines can provide remarkable acceleration. Let's wait and see how the 2021 Sienna actually performs.
 

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2020 Sienna Limited Premium from a 2002 Odyssey XLE
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Discussion Starter #31
Thanks for all the helpful replies. We purchased a 2020 Sienna Limited Premium. Our Honda Odyssey did not want to wait until the 2021 Siennas were out. Just had to drop another $100 (new battery). In the last year, we have spent close to what she is worth on repairs. So, it became a no-brainer, don't spend any more money on her.

We are quite pleased with our new car.

Regards to the great folks on Siennchat.com
 

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Toyota has methodically addressed issues found in IIHS crash tests when models were redesigned. An excellent example is the 2012 Prius v wagon like we have owned since new. When the IIHS subjected it to the "Small overlap front: driver-side" crash test, it failed miserably and received the lowest "Poor" rating. When the Prius v was subjected to the same test again after a major redesign for the 2015 model year, it received the highest "Good" rating.

Toyota did something less aggressive when it added additional welds to the Sienna body structure for the 2015 model year to bring the rating for the same "Small overlap front: driver-side" crash test from Marginal up to Acceptable. That improvement was without making any visual changes to the Sienna exterior.

Toyota has a strong record of improving vehicle crash safety to address issues found by the IIHS and to allow for future requirements. A further example in the 2021 Sienna is the addition of 2nd row side airbags.

Regarding the gen 4 2021 Sienna, "The guys saying its under powered" have not driven it. There have been no published road tests by journalists that I can find. They are basing their statements on guessing. I have favorable expectation due to my experiences with a variety of Toyota and Lexus hybrid vehicles, none of which were under powered. Drive a RAV4, Avalon and/or ES300h hybrid and tell me that they are under powered. They all have 4-cylinder engines. The new RAV4 PHEV is insanely quick. The only faster accelerating Toyota is the BMW-supplied Supra. The combined power/torque of electric motors and internal combustion engines can provide remarkable acceleration. Let's wait and see how the 2021 Sienna actually performs.
You are also guessing about the Sienna's safety. They haven't crash tested it yet, right? Yet you can assume based on Toyota's history? But we can't assume that it'll be under powered based on, oh I don't know, the HP rating published by Toyota? lol.
 

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Thanks for all the helpful replies. We purchased a 2020 Sienna Limited Premium. Our Honda Odyssey did not want to wait until the 2021 Siennas were out. Just had to drop another $100 (new battery). In the last year, we have spent close to what she is worth on repairs. So, it became a no-brainer, don't spend any more money on her.

We are quite pleased with our new car.

Regards to the great folks on Siennchat.com
Congrats!
 

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You are also guessing about the Sienna's safety. They haven't crash tested it yet, right? Yet you can assume based on Toyota's history? But we can't assume that it'll be under powered based on, oh I don't know, the HP rating published by Toyota? lol.
There's a common saying in business: The best indicator of future performance is past performance. Toyota's past performance is what I'm basing my forecast on.

On what you basing your doom-and-gloom prediction that the Sienna will be so underpowered that it will be unsafe?

I've driven a number of Toyota hybrids including the 2012 Prius wagon we've owned since new and they've all been quite peppy. LOL, I can "lay rubber" in our Prius. The RAV4 hybrid my wife test drove last year was very powerful. The Avalon 4-cylinder hybrid we test drove was fast and I couldn't tell that it wasn't a V6. Do you have any experience with Toyota hybrids? Any at all? Bueller? Bueller?

I did find your "mountain at high altitude" scenario humorous since in the 1980's my 62 horsepower, 4 cylinder Mercedes 240 Diesel 4-door sedan routinely carried up to five adults, luggage and ski equipment to Colorado ski areas for up to one week long outings. No speed records were set but the car did fine in the Rockies. Here's a photo of the 240D (and me) my wife took the day I bought my first Lexus LS in early 1990.

Mercedes W123 - 1979-1990.jpg
 

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To me the current Gen 3 Sienna with 6.X second 0-60 is downright sporty or at least above average. My old Mazda B2500 with 119 hp and 10.0 0-60 is uncomfortably slow and I've driven it in the mountains and I could see someone stating that may be unsafe, but the average car that can go 0-60 anywhere around 7 to <9 Seconds is safe in my opinion. My wife's new 2020 Sonata Hybrid with 192 hp is about 8 seconds to 0-60 and that seems very peppy to me especially after driving my truck for so long. I'd suspect the 2021 Sienna to be adequate and safe.

Once IIHS sets a benchmark and a car manufacturer does a clean sheet new model they build to that spec to pass the new IIHS benchmark and do internal testing to ensure they do. Really for a company like Toyota to not to pass or get the IIHS award is by choice such as the new headlight requirements in which the lower trims always fail to pass cause manufacturers don't care to spend the money on it to get a "+" award. Another example would be in the past IIHS only tested the driver side for overlap and manufacturers such as Ford F150 amongst others only beefed up that side, so now IIHS caught on and test both sides. If people stop buying those cars due to headlights we will see the changes happen over time as they get implemented more often, but people definitely are more swayed not to buy a car if it gets poor structure scores and its very very unlikely the new Sienna will score low in this.
 

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You are also guessing about the Sienna's safety. They haven't crash tested it yet, right? Yet you can assume based on Toyota's history? But we can't assume that it'll be under powered based on, oh I don't know, the HP rating published by Toyota? lol.
The 2020 Highlander is on the same TNGA-K platform and had excellent collision test results. I think that's a pretty good data point. Are there any vehicles on the TNGA platform that didn't test well? If not then I think its safe to assume the 2021 Sienna will have improved collision test results.
 

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Again, a fully loaded Sienna with a possible 8 passengers going up hill on a mountain with the hybrid battery depleted? Doesn't sound like a good recipe. Toyota should make the V6 optional at least. With gas prices at $1.5/gallon, why get a hybrid?
 

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Again, a fully loaded Sienna with a possible 8 passengers going up hill on a mountain with the hybrid battery depleted? Doesn't sound like a good recipe. Toyota should make the V6 optional at least. With gas prices at $1.5/gallon, why get a hybrid?
In the end it will come down to what sells. Toyota's strategy is to shift over to hybrid vehicles. If the V4 hybrid sells well (as well as it can in a declining segment), Toyota made the right choice. If it does not sell well, Toyota could consider offering a V6 in the future, or could choose to just stop selling the Sienna (following many other manufacturers in exiting the minivan segment).

 

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Our Honda Odyssey did not want to wait ... had to drop another $100 (new battery). In the last year, we have spent close to what she is worth on repairs. We are quite pleased with our new car.
If I was limited to my vehicle value, I couldn't fill her up. Good luck with your new van.
 

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Again, a fully loaded Sienna with a possible 8 passengers going up hill on a mountain with the hybrid battery depleted? Doesn't sound like a good recipe. Toyota should make the V6 optional at least. With gas prices at $1.5/gallon, why get a hybrid?
For everyone worried about the Hybrid Sienna up mountains. This video the guy is doing a "torture test" climbing mountain passes in Canada with a 2020 Highlander Hybrid same powertrain as the Sienna. He even talks about the upcoming 2021 Toyota Sienna and the worries people are talking about climbing mountains beginning at the 16:00 minute mark. Doesn't think there will be any problem, although he only has 4 people in the vehicle and isn't towing 3500 lbs. either but still the powertrain seems strong.
 
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