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It could have been said with more tact, but the content was, in my view, relevant to the discussion.
I guess when I was reading the original post, I wasn't reading it the same way the previous poster was. The previous poster was right, it doesn't "make sense" to upgrade to a car when your current one is in perfect working condition, still relatively young and likely low miles. I had ASSumed the original post was more or less asking about the feature upgrades. So the condescending comments that had nothing to do with the features the op was asking about felt irrelevant. But hey, that was just my opinion and it absolutely is the internet where people can say what they want for the most part, even if they wouldn't talk that way to people in real life.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
I had ASSumed the original post was more or less asking about the feature upgrades. So the condescending comments that had nothing to do with the features the op was asking about felt irrelevant.
That's exactly that I intended when I started the thread. I just want to compare the new one to the old one.

I'll add that our '17 Sienna has just about to hit 67,000 and by the time this summer's road trips are done we'll probably be close to 75,000. I've found that, in terms of resale value, it tends to work out well for us to trade out of a vehicle before it hits 100k as some banks and credit unions won't finance vehicles with that amount of mileage, even if it is a Toyota. So, we're coming to the crossroads of deciding whether the feature upgrades of the new Sienna warrant a trade in or if we want to stick with this one for a while.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 ·
Actually, according to the link you posted about the '17, "Pre-Collision System (PCS) and Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) are available on the Sienna Limited Premium as part of the optional Limited Advanced Technology Package."

Ours is a Limited Premium, but we don't have the Advanced Tech Pkg. So, TheTruthHurts was correct, it was optional on our current van.
 

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Actually, according to the link you posted about the '17, "Pre-Collision System (PCS) and Vehicle Dynamics Integrated Management (VDIM) are available on the Sienna Limited Premium as part of the optional Limited Advanced Technology Package."

Ours is a Limited Premium, but we don't have the Advanced Tech Pkg. So, TheTruthHurts was correct, it was optional on our current van.
Ah, found it on IHSS. It was one of the early systems that didn't completely prevent a crash. Do you remember how much it cost?
 

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How about one more reply that deviates from the original ask ;). If not.. just ignore ;)

IMHO, if you have financial affordability and tolerance to get in to a totally redesigned and almost a different a kind of vehicle, it might not be a bad idea to pull the trigger. I am sure you won't regret it.

Other way to put it based on my personal situation, possibly 20-30 years from now: It would hurt me a lot to see my Son-In-Laws buy brand new cars from the money I saved by not buying cars I could have enjoyed driving ;)
 

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:ROFLMAO: Sorry, I don't know what the cost of that system was.
I see you got yours off the lot year end. For our '04, ESC was part of a not-quite $2K optional package on an LE = custom order and a 10 week wait, ouch. Probably going to replace it in a year's time, may have to order again to get the spare tire in a color we like.
 

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That's exactly that I intended when I started the thread. I just want to compare the new one to the old one.

I'll add that our '17 Sienna has just about to hit 67,000 and by the time this summer's road trips are done we'll probably be close to 75,000. I've found that, in terms of resale value, it tends to work out well for us to trade out of a vehicle before it hits 100k as some banks and credit unions won't finance vehicles with that amount of mileage, even if it is a Toyota. So, we're coming to the crossroads of deciding whether the feature upgrades of the new Sienna warrant a trade in or if we want to stick with this one for a while.
Id def consider it then bc at the same time used vehicles and trade ins are at all time highs, may be worth it for the upgrade to a newer model. And i think which i didnt mention before, the safety features in it are a big plus along with the other tech upgrades.
 

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I can tell you from my search in 2015/2016 that the Advanced Tech Package was nearly as rare as hen's teeth. It would be a rare find to come upon one on a dealer's lot. It was typically a special order and wait, and wait kind of item. Geezer special ordered his 2014 that way, IIRC.

As far as the kind of responses you might get to a "should I or shouldn't I" question? You've opened the door to the entire gamut of views and reasons why / why not. As long as the discourse is civil, I tend to leave them be.

I would agree that the idea of a Hybrid that did not have a large enough battery pack to go a substantial distance on electric and the ability to charge at home does not appeal to me either. Even a cheap and dirty 120v Level 1 charge capability overnight (12 hours) would get me to and from work on electric power along, reserving the gas engine need to longer than my 20 mile round trip commute. The idea of your gas engine having to cycle relatively often when coupled to a tiny battery pack seems of dubious economic or environmental value to me.

I added a 240v welding outlet to my garage. What would a plug-in Level 2 charger cost?
[should have googled that first.... Not that expensive. $350 on Amazon gets you in the game]

But again, you might not want to hear my opinion.....
 

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You had mentioned objective comparisons -- If I'm not mistaken, the 2022 does not have the passenger compartment moonroof that the 17' limited premium has. maybe weight savings? you also mention that your '17 limited premium is a FWD, which means you have the power 3rd row seats (another feature probably taken out for weight savings).

regarding the safety sense - I have one of the "unicorn" 2017 limited premiums that has the advanced technology package. I was pretty insistent on an exact configuration when I bought it in '17 (blizzard white on chestnut, fwd, advanced technology). the radar cruise control is pretty convenient on longer trips. and I suppose the assurance of knowing it's equipped with automated emergency braking is cool. but one thing I feel like I'm missing is the 360 degree camera; the nose of the sienna is pretty short and dips down very quickly, so it's hard to be aware of where the "front" of the vehicle is, when parking near one of those concrete parking lot blocks. a front camera would fix that. also, the resolution of the back-up camera is pretty fuzzy. I'm sure they improved that on the 2022.

ultimately, it's up to your personal financial situation on whether it's "worth" an upgrade. we only have 10k miles on our sienna (crazy, given it's turning 4 years old soon!). so it would make little sense for us to try to get rid of it now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
You had mentioned objective comparisons -- If I'm not mistaken, the 2022 does not have the passenger compartment moonroof that the 17' limited premium has. maybe weight savings? you also mention that your '17 limited premium is a FWD, which means you have the power 3rd row seats (another feature probably taken out for weight savings).

regarding the safety sense - I have one of the "unicorn" 2017 limited premiums that has the advanced technology package. I was pretty insistent on an exact configuration when I bought it in '17 (blizzard white on chestnut, fwd, advanced technology). the radar cruise control is pretty convenient on longer trips. and I suppose the assurance of knowing it's equipped with automated emergency braking is cool. but one thing I feel like I'm missing is the 360 degree camera; the nose of the sienna is pretty short and dips down very quickly, so it's hard to be aware of where the "front" of the vehicle is, when parking near one of those concrete parking lot blocks. a front camera would fix that. also, the resolution of the back-up camera is pretty fuzzy. I'm sure they improved that on the 2022.

ultimately, it's up to your personal financial situation on whether it's "worth" an upgrade. we only have 10k miles on our sienna (crazy, given it's turning 4 years old soon!). so it would make little sense for us to try to get rid of it now.
Great points of comparison.

I did note the lack of the rear moonroof, but it probably wouldn't matter much as my kids never use it (or the RES for that matter). I'm the only one in the family who really likes using a moonroof and it looks like perhaps the front one is larger in the '21, maybe? If so, I'd call that a win for '21. You're right that we have the 3rd row power seats, but I don't really care whether we retain that feature as it always seemed unnecessary to me.

Radar cruise was nice on my Accord, but an annoyance on my Passport, so it's nice to hear that you think Toyota's implementation is good. Funny that you mention parking in the '17. I have a slightly different issue in that I always seem to park our Sienna a little crooked. I feel like the short nose makes it a little more difficult to judge how straight the vehicle is (or something like that).

Crazy that you've only got 10k on the clock! That van will last you forever at that rate! We're currently crossing 67k with several thousand miles of road trips planned for this summer.
 

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Good to hear that you were already aware of all of these things and had considered such.
I agree that the "front" moonroof on the sienna is so small that it pretty much seemed like an afterthought. just so they could say they had one. the kids do enjoy the ability to look up through the rear moonroof, and I suppose open it, when the weather is pleasant. they use the RES occasionally. From what it sounds like, the RES is a bit more restrictive on the newer sienna.. (i think you need to use HDMI or wifi to play media via the screen, vs playing off of bluray / sd card). but as you stated, your family doesnt use the RES much, so a bit moot.

The main thing I'm jealous of on the 2022 van is its fuel economy. But as a prior poster had mentioned, the economics of a trade just to capture the better fuel mileage isn't particularly compelling. especially in my family's case, where we don't drive the van very much to begin with..! Incidentally, we just got a G90 - less "space" inside, worse fuel economy.. but quite the ride quality so far.

Enjoy the summer road trips, and be safe!
 

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Good evening, everyone. My wife and I have a 2017 Sienna Limited FWD that we've really enjoyed and we're considering whether to upgrade to a Gen 4 Platinum. I was wondering if anyone else here with a late Gen 3 has made the jump yet.

Obviously the fuel mileage is a massive upgrade, but what about the comfort? Is it roomier? Quieter? My only real major complaints with our '17 have been the lackluster navigation, and the poor sound quality from the speakerphone (when my wife calls me from the van it always sounds like she's in a wind tunnel). Admittedly they're not terrible faults, but that navigation system in particular is very irksome for such an expensive vehicle.
I ended up going with the 2020 vs the 2021 and I’m glad I did. The storage in the 2021 is smaller than the 2020, the third seat is narrower in the 2021 and the middle row can’t be taken out. The front seat armrests are gone and replaced with a new center console that unfortunately doesn’t allow me use them when driving. I was worried about power, but when I test drove it, the 4 cylinder had plenty of power on the Highway. The newer electronics were something that had me considering the change but the smaller storage and being able to remove the middle row was enough for me to stay with the 2020.
 

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If your 17 has toyota safety sense, auto braking, adaptive cruise etc I would wait to upgrade, give toyota time to get the bugs out and maybe come out with phev and safety 2.5.

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I completely agree. We have a 2018 and it has apl the same bells and whistles as the Gen 4, except the open via door swipe. We test drove the Gen 4 and decided the power drop from the engine was just too much. It really doesnt make sense, and electric motor has more torque than gasoline so it should be more responsive, but its not. It reminded me of the gutless dodge mini vans.
 

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I completely agree. We have a 2018 and it has apl the same bells and whistles as the Gen 4, except the open via door swipe. We test drove the Gen 4 and decided the power drop from the engine was just too much. It really doesnt make sense, and electric motor has more torque than gasoline so it should be more responsive, but its not. It reminded me of the gutless dodge mini vans.
I had a similar filling when I drove ours for first few days. My first few posts here are about how I felt it was so under powered. Since then, I have learned that this van needs to be told to get in to aggressive mode a little bit more firmly. It assumes you're trying to save money otherwise. Many people here will chew me up if I say that the "Accelerator/paddle response is not liner." However, it is something in-between. If you keep going at it, at some point, it switches personality and it is ready to pounce at a little tap. Also, if you test drove it in Eco mode, it might have something to do with it too.

Different subject, but I am trying out normal mode now. This is very early, and might just be individual perception thing, but I have been recently feeling like I can sense the engine revs in the steering wheel in a good way. It vaguely reminds me of riding a motorcycle where engine vibrations seep into handlebar making you aware when you are in and out of the power zone. (I rode a 94 ZX9R for some time.) I am not talking muscle car rumbling kind of feeling. However, it is something that corresponds with the engine RPMs. I will have to pay a close attention to it and than may be just do a new thread on it later.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
I had a similar filling when I drove ours for first few days. My first few posts here are about how I felt it was so under powered. Since then, I have learned that this van needs to be told to get in to aggressive mode a little bit more firmly. It assumes you're trying to save money otherwise. Many people here will chew me up if I say that the "Accelerator/paddle response is not liner." However, it is something in-between. If you keep going at it, at some point, it switches personality and it is ready to pounce at a little tap. Also, if you test drove it in Eco mode, it might have something to do with it too.
Does the Sienna have an adaptive (learning) transmission? A lot of newer vehicles have transmissions that will learn your driving habits and somewhat tailor the driving experience to suit your style, so that may explain why it stopped feeling underpowered after awhile.

I've had a thought for awhile now that vehicle purchasing would be a lot different if you could live with a vehicle for a week before buying, rather than trying to assess it on a brief test drive. It takes time to get to know a vehicle and it would be really nice if you could take a few days to see how it fits your life before committing to years of payments.
 

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I'm sure that even a hybrid's ECU has learning capabilities, like pretty much every conventional powertrain of the last decade or two. It may be more limited in it's ability to adapt given a hybrid's role as an economy biased vehicle, but must have responded to your 'flogging' to some extent.
 

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I had a similar filling when I drove ours for first few days. My first few posts here are about how I felt it was so under powered. Since then, I have learned that this van needs to be told to get in to aggressive mode a little bit more firmly. It assumes you're trying to save money otherwise. Many people here will chew me up if I say that the "Accelerator/paddle response is not liner." However, it is something in-between. If you keep going at it, at some point, it switches personality and it is ready to pounce at a little tap. Also, if you test drove it in Eco mode, it might have something to do with it too.

Different subject, but I am trying out normal mode now. This is very early, and might just be individual perception thing, but I have been recently feeling like I can sense the engine revs in the steering wheel in a good way. It vaguely reminds me of riding a motorcycle where engine vibrations seep into handlebar making you aware when you are in and out of the power zone. (I rode a 94 ZX9R for some time.) I am not talking muscle car rumbling kind of feeling. However, it is something that corresponds with the engine RPMs. I will have to pay a close attention to it and than may be just do a new thread on it later.
My understanding is that the engine doesn't rev. There is no tachometer and no automatic transmission. The engine runs at a constant speed and adjusts the cvt ratio to instead or decrease power.

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My understanding is that the engine doesn't rev. There is no tachometer and no automatic transmission. The engine runs at a constant speed and adjusts the cvt ratio to instead or decrease power.

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Both the rpm and cvt ratio are varied to get the BHP and torque required to propel the vehicle, but the controls try to keep it in the range of 1700 to 3200 rpm for max efficiency when possible. The power varies from 25 kw to 65 kw over that range of rpm and the torque varies from 140 to 190 Nm.
50170
 

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Does the Sienna have an adaptive (learning) transmission? A lot of newer vehicles have transmissions that will learn your driving habits and somewhat tailor the driving experience to suit your style, so that may explain why it stopped feeling underpowered after awhile.
...
I couldn't guess one way or the other.. The trick is to not let the steadily increasing engine whine let you think it is hurting. Just keep going at the accelerator, and Voilla! its got a lot of untapped power!
 
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