Toyota Sienna Forum - siennachat.com banner

Worth the upgrade from a 2017 Limited?

9K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  Hubb 
#1 ·
Good evening, everyone. My wife and I have a 2017 Sienna Limited FWD that we've really enjoyed and we're considering whether to upgrade to a Gen 4 Platinum. I was wondering if anyone else here with a late Gen 3 has made the jump yet.

Obviously the fuel mileage is a massive upgrade, but what about the comfort? Is it roomier? Quieter? My only real major complaints with our '17 have been the lackluster navigation, and the poor sound quality from the speakerphone (when my wife calls me from the van it always sounds like she's in a wind tunnel). Admittedly they're not terrible faults, but that navigation system in particular is very irksome for such an expensive vehicle.
 
#2 ·
In terms of things you have listed out, it is definitely an upgrade for sure. The main thing you will lose out on is the feel and power of a V6. Tech and other such will definitely be a huge difference in usability, and the new system lets you use Apple Car Play and Android Auto.
 
#3 ·
Good evening, everyone. My wife and I have a 2017 Sienna Limited FWD that we've really enjoyed and we're considering whether to upgrade to a Gen 4 Platinum. I was wondering if anyone else here with a late Gen 3 has made the jump yet.

Obviously the fuel mileage is a massive upgrade, but what about the comfort? Is it roomier? Quieter? My only real major complaints with our '17 have been the lackluster navigation, and the poor sound quality from the speakerphone (when my wife calls me from the van it always sounds like she's in a wind tunnel). Admittedly they're not terrible faults, but that navigation system in particular is very irksome for such an expensive vehicle.
If your 17 has toyota safety sense, auto braking, adaptive cruise etc I would wait to upgrade, give toyota time to get the bugs out and maybe come out with phev and safety 2.5.

Sent from my moto g stylus (2021) using Tapatalk
 
#4 ·
If your 17 has toyota safety sense, auto braking, adaptive cruise etc I would wait to upgrade, give toyota time to get the bugs out and maybe come out with phev and safety 2.5.
Our '17 does not have any Safety Sense features. I believe that '18 was the first year for that. I think that it would be nice to have, but how 'buggy' are we talking about the current iteration being?

For my own vehicle, I recently moved from a '19 Honda Accord to a '20 Honda Passport, both of which feature the "Honda Sensing" safety suite. Although I much prefer the Passport on nearly every front, the implementation of the safety tech on the Accord was leaps and bounds better than that of the Passport, despite the Accord being a year older. I had assumed that this kind of tech would get year-by-year updates across the the entire manufacturer's lineup, but I know now that it doesn't work like that. The Sensing suite on the Passport is so poor that I wish it could either be updated or removed entirely.

I'd love to hear a comparison between Honda Sensing and the Toyota Safety Sense in the new Sienna.
 
#5 ·
The safety suite in the new sienna is just fine. The biggest complaint is that the highway lane tracing assist lane centering and steering assist features (features active with the dynamic radar cruise, but can be deactivated) sometimes send the van into an steering overcorrection loop that feels unnerving. But this is easily remedied by, you know, driving the car. Don't expect it to be a tesla autopilot and you'll be fine.

Personally I have not experienced that at all and love all the features of safety sense.
 
#6 ·
There are times that I am amused by such questions. I tend to change vehicles VERY infrequently, usually because they wear out or something breaks that would be impractical to repair. I also tend to 'customize' my vehicles to my preferences, a process that might take a year or three. That really makes it impractical to 'upgrade' every three or four years.

I just upgraded from an '05 Sienna LE AWD to an '18 XLE AWD. Major upgrades on all accounts. Nav system? Yes, it has it, but I don't use it. I have found that you have to be stopped to do ANYTHING with it, which makes it hard to find a gas station while traveling unless you stop on the side of the freeway. I have had the Apple Car Play upgrade, making it possible to use Waze on the screen. But I don't use Waze for navigation, either, it is more of a 'situational awareness' thing with its hazard alerts. For navigation, I actually use a standalone Garmin GPS that sits on the dash. It is there for more than one reason, though. If I am planning a multi-day trip to visit specific places, I have not seen a single nav unit in a car that will let me pre-plan the route at home, on my computer, then load it into the car's nav unit. You HAVE to use a GPS for that.

Safety ratings? I don't know how my van rates, and quite frankly, I don't care. Is it worth 'upgrading' your van because the new one is safer? How much of an upgrade in ratings is worth the extra cost of the new van?

Fuel mileage increase? Again, how much fuel will you be saving? In this case (Sienna), it's considerable, but let's do a little math. 15,000 miles (yearly average) at 24 mpg will use 625 gallons of gas. Gas is about $2.75 around here, so that will cost you about $1718. The same 15,000 miles at 36 mpg will use 416 gallons, at a cost of $1145. You will save about $572 per year on gas. What is the cost difference between the two vans? How long will it take to make up that difference?

Some people do insist on having the latest of everything, I am happy to keep the familiar stuff that I have.

.
 
#7 ·
There are times that I am amused by such questions. I tend to change vehicles VERY infrequently, usually because they wear out or something breaks that would be impractical to repair. I also tend to 'customize' my vehicles to my preferences, a process that might take a year or three. That really makes it impractical to 'upgrade' every three or four years.

I just upgraded from an '05 Sienna LE AWD to an '18 XLE AWD. Major upgrades on all accounts. Nav system? Yes, it has it, but I don't use it. I have found that you have to be stopped to do ANYTHING with it, which makes it hard to find a gas station while traveling unless you stop on the side of the freeway. I have had the Apple Car Play upgrade, making it possible to use Waze on the screen. But I don't use Waze for navigation, either, it is more of a 'situational awareness' thing with its hazard alerts. For navigation, I actually use a standalone Garmin GPS that sits on the dash. It is there for more than one reason, though. If I am planning a multi-day trip to visit specific places, I have not seen a single nav unit in a car that will let me pre-plan the route at home, on my computer, then load it into the car's nav unit. You HAVE to use a GPS for that.

Safety ratings? I don't know how my van rates, and quite frankly, I don't care. Is it worth 'upgrading' your van because the new one is safer? How much of an upgrade in ratings is worth the extra cost of the new van?

Fuel mileage increase? Again, how much fuel will you be saving? In this case (Sienna), it's considerable, but let's do a little math. 15,000 miles (yearly average) at 24 mpg will use 625 gallons of gas. Gas is about $2.75 around here, so that will cost you about $1718. The same 15,000 miles at 36 mpg will use 416 gallons, at a cost of $1145. You will save about $572 per year on gas. What is the cost difference between the two vans? How long will it take to make up that difference?

Some people do insist on having the latest of everything, I am happy to keep the familiar stuff that I have.

.
That is a great and logical post. Many people don't come close to 15,000 miles a year.

Sent from my moto g stylus (2021) using Tapatalk
 
#12 ·
datsa noydb's post covered some relevant items to consider in any automotive 'upgrade' discussion. We went thru this too, when going from a 2008 LE (gen-2) to a 2015 Limited Premium (gen-3) in 2016. Its the 'wants' vs 'needs' discussion. In the end it often comes down more to 'I want something new' than an essential need situation. We are all different, and a lot of this will come down to your ability to part with $40 large.
 
#14 ·
datsa noydb's post covered some relevant items to consider in any automotive 'upgrade' discussion. Its the 'wants' vs 'needs' discussion. In the end it often comes down more to 'I want something new' than an essential need situation. We are all different, and a lot of this will come down to your ability to part with $40 large.
Sure, however it seems to bring with it a lot of inference, assumption, and judgement. When someone opens with "I am amused by such questions" and concludes with "Some people do insist on having the latest of everything, I am happy to keep the familiar stuff that I have", they're not being a helpful forum member, they being smug and preachy.
 
#15 ·
It could have been said with more tact, but the content was, in my view, relevant to the discussion.
 
#21 ·
I guess when I was reading the original post, I wasn't reading it the same way the previous poster was. The previous poster was right, it doesn't "make sense" to upgrade to a car when your current one is in perfect working condition, still relatively young and likely low miles. I had ASSumed the original post was more or less asking about the feature upgrades. So the condescending comments that had nothing to do with the features the op was asking about felt irrelevant. But hey, that was just my opinion and it absolutely is the internet where people can say what they want for the most part, even if they wouldn't talk that way to people in real life.
 
#25 ·
How about one more reply that deviates from the original ask ;). If not.. just ignore ;)

IMHO, if you have financial affordability and tolerance to get in to a totally redesigned and almost a different a kind of vehicle, it might not be a bad idea to pull the trigger. I am sure you won't regret it.

Other way to put it based on my personal situation, possibly 20-30 years from now: It would hurt me a lot to see my Son-In-Laws buy brand new cars from the money I saved by not buying cars I could have enjoyed driving ;)
 
#29 · (Edited)
I can tell you from my search in 2015/2016 that the Advanced Tech Package was nearly as rare as hen's teeth. It would be a rare find to come upon one on a dealer's lot. It was typically a special order and wait, and wait kind of item. Geezer special ordered his 2014 that way, IIRC.

As far as the kind of responses you might get to a "should I or shouldn't I" question? You've opened the door to the entire gamut of views and reasons why / why not. As long as the discourse is civil, I tend to leave them be.

I would agree that the idea of a Hybrid that did not have a large enough battery pack to go a substantial distance on electric and the ability to charge at home does not appeal to me either. Even a cheap and dirty 120v Level 1 charge capability overnight (12 hours) would get me to and from work on electric power along, reserving the gas engine need to longer than my 20 mile round trip commute. The idea of your gas engine having to cycle relatively often when coupled to a tiny battery pack seems of dubious economic or environmental value to me.

I added a 240v welding outlet to my garage. What would a plug-in Level 2 charger cost?
[should have googled that first.... Not that expensive. $350 on Amazon gets you in the game]

But again, you might not want to hear my opinion.....
 
#30 ·
You had mentioned objective comparisons -- If I'm not mistaken, the 2022 does not have the passenger compartment moonroof that the 17' limited premium has. maybe weight savings? you also mention that your '17 limited premium is a FWD, which means you have the power 3rd row seats (another feature probably taken out for weight savings).

regarding the safety sense - I have one of the "unicorn" 2017 limited premiums that has the advanced technology package. I was pretty insistent on an exact configuration when I bought it in '17 (blizzard white on chestnut, fwd, advanced technology). the radar cruise control is pretty convenient on longer trips. and I suppose the assurance of knowing it's equipped with automated emergency braking is cool. but one thing I feel like I'm missing is the 360 degree camera; the nose of the sienna is pretty short and dips down very quickly, so it's hard to be aware of where the "front" of the vehicle is, when parking near one of those concrete parking lot blocks. a front camera would fix that. also, the resolution of the back-up camera is pretty fuzzy. I'm sure they improved that on the 2022.

ultimately, it's up to your personal financial situation on whether it's "worth" an upgrade. we only have 10k miles on our sienna (crazy, given it's turning 4 years old soon!). so it would make little sense for us to try to get rid of it now.
 
#31 ·
You had mentioned objective comparisons -- If I'm not mistaken, the 2022 does not have the passenger compartment moonroof that the 17' limited premium has. maybe weight savings? you also mention that your '17 limited premium is a FWD, which means you have the power 3rd row seats (another feature probably taken out for weight savings).

regarding the safety sense - I have one of the "unicorn" 2017 limited premiums that has the advanced technology package. I was pretty insistent on an exact configuration when I bought it in '17 (blizzard white on chestnut, fwd, advanced technology). the radar cruise control is pretty convenient on longer trips. and I suppose the assurance of knowing it's equipped with automated emergency braking is cool. but one thing I feel like I'm missing is the 360 degree camera; the nose of the sienna is pretty short and dips down very quickly, so it's hard to be aware of where the "front" of the vehicle is, when parking near one of those concrete parking lot blocks. a front camera would fix that. also, the resolution of the back-up camera is pretty fuzzy. I'm sure they improved that on the 2022.

ultimately, it's up to your personal financial situation on whether it's "worth" an upgrade. we only have 10k miles on our sienna (crazy, given it's turning 4 years old soon!). so it would make little sense for us to try to get rid of it now.
Great points of comparison.

I did note the lack of the rear moonroof, but it probably wouldn't matter much as my kids never use it (or the RES for that matter). I'm the only one in the family who really likes using a moonroof and it looks like perhaps the front one is larger in the '21, maybe? If so, I'd call that a win for '21. You're right that we have the 3rd row power seats, but I don't really care whether we retain that feature as it always seemed unnecessary to me.

Radar cruise was nice on my Accord, but an annoyance on my Passport, so it's nice to hear that you think Toyota's implementation is good. Funny that you mention parking in the '17. I have a slightly different issue in that I always seem to park our Sienna a little crooked. I feel like the short nose makes it a little more difficult to judge how straight the vehicle is (or something like that).

Crazy that you've only got 10k on the clock! That van will last you forever at that rate! We're currently crossing 67k with several thousand miles of road trips planned for this summer.
 
#32 ·
Good to hear that you were already aware of all of these things and had considered such.
I agree that the "front" moonroof on the sienna is so small that it pretty much seemed like an afterthought. just so they could say they had one. the kids do enjoy the ability to look up through the rear moonroof, and I suppose open it, when the weather is pleasant. they use the RES occasionally. From what it sounds like, the RES is a bit more restrictive on the newer sienna.. (i think you need to use HDMI or wifi to play media via the screen, vs playing off of bluray / sd card). but as you stated, your family doesnt use the RES much, so a bit moot.

The main thing I'm jealous of on the 2022 van is its fuel economy. But as a prior poster had mentioned, the economics of a trade just to capture the better fuel mileage isn't particularly compelling. especially in my family's case, where we don't drive the van very much to begin with..! Incidentally, we just got a G90 - less "space" inside, worse fuel economy.. but quite the ride quality so far.

Enjoy the summer road trips, and be safe!
 
#33 ·
I ended up going with the 2020 vs the 2021 and I’m glad I did. The storage in the 2021 is smaller than the 2020, the third seat is narrower in the 2021 and the middle row can’t be taken out. The front seat armrests are gone and replaced with a new center console that unfortunately doesn’t allow me use them when driving. I was worried about power, but when I test drove it, the 4 cylinder had plenty of power on the Highway. The newer electronics were something that had me considering the change but the smaller storage and being able to remove the middle row was enough for me to stay with the 2020.
 
#44 ·
Good info. As much as I'd love the new features and improved mileage of the '21, it's looking more and more like our '17 is still the better fit for our life. I love the versatility of removing the middle seats (though that system could really be improved upon), and my kids aren't getting any smaller so space and comfort are super important. If only there was a good way in integrate Apple Car Play into my '17, it would really alleviate one of my big gripes.
 
#37 ·
I'm sure that even a hybrid's ECU has learning capabilities, like pretty much every conventional powertrain of the last decade or two. It may be more limited in it's ability to adapt given a hybrid's role as an economy biased vehicle, but must have responded to your 'flogging' to some extent.
 
#42 ·
My understanding is that the engine doesn't rev. There is no tachometer and no automatic transmission. The engine runs at a constant speed and adjusts the cvt ratio to instead or decrease power.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk
Both the rpm and cvt ratio are varied to get the BHP and torque required to propel the vehicle, but the controls try to keep it in the range of 1700 to 3200 rpm for max efficiency when possible. The power varies from 25 kw to 65 kw over that range of rpm and the torque varies from 140 to 190 Nm.
View attachment 50170


We have a Platinum. It has an option to add an RPM line on the HUD.

I am still trying to make sense of it. However, tiny vibrations are seeping in to the steering wheel when you're in the "Power Zone". Once you're here, a little push on accelerator gives a lot of oomph. However, getting in to the "Power zone" means getting used to ignoring the engine whine. I know that some of the oomph is coming from eCVT Modulation and electric motors, but the whine and the tiny vibrations from ICE (if you're paying attention to it) try to take all credit for it :).
 
#48 · (Edited)
Well, we took a couple test drives in an XLE and both the wife and I liked it enough to place an order. We're going with a FWD Platinum in Blizzard without rear entertainment.

My impressions:
-There's definitely less room inside, but not so much that it's an issue. It's only noticeable in terms of headroom, but again, not so much that it's an issue.
-The seating position is a little higher and more upright than our 2017, but in a way that I prefer.
-The reduction in power from our 2017 is really only noticeable at full throttle off the line. Highway merging and passing are totally fine. I've had 2 Honda Accords with CVT's so the shift-free acceleration is very familiar to me. I never minded the CVT's in those cars and the Sienna felt similar but better.
-It's much quieter than our current Sienna. This is a huge win in my book. We need to use the EasySpeak feature in our current van for our youngest back in the 3rd row to hear us. Yet we were easily able to converse without EasySpeak in the XLE tester.
-I really like the cockpit design, including the new center console and armrests. Very immersive and comfortable. I love how much easier the infotainment screen is to reach.
-I'm disappointed that the infotainment system doesn't have on-board music storage or a card slot, especially since there's only 1 USB port that needs to be shared between CarPlay and USB storage. This seems like a bit of an oversight on Toyota's part.
-The voice command system is vastly improved. Way faster and more coherent.
-The brown seats on the Platinum are way better looking in person than in pictures.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top