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AWD in Sienna 2011

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2011 awd
21K views 21 replies 17 participants last post by  dinodeedeedumdum  
#1 ·
I own an AWD LE 2004 MY. With combination of snow tires, the driving has always been great. However after watching this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t09ExAUgtyE">video</a> and reading a lot of opinions\tech discussions about AWD\4WD, I have a few questions for you experts.

1. How will 2011 Sienna behave if you put it to a test as shown in this video?
2. Recently, I tried to help my friend with a 2008 Highlander 4WD to get out of the parking spot after the recent winter storm in Edison, NJ. On one occasion I noticed that his front wheels were spinning on the ice while the rear wheels were on a surface with traction. But they never turned and it took him some moving back and forth to get out of that spot. If it was 4WD, it should have gotten out with the rear wheel traction, shouldn't it?
3. How will 2011 Sienna behave in the situation as explained in #2?
4. In the situation as described in #2, will there be differences in behavior between a 2010 Sienna and 2011 Sienna?

Thanks for all your input in advance.
 
#2 ·
I had already observed this in my old Nissan Rogue. Personally, I didn't mind it being like that with the snowstorm we just had in the tri-state area because it was still better than nothing. My guess is it's just like the Highlander in that video or my Rogue, but it would be a nice surprise if Toyota changed this in our Sienna. :)

But now you've got me curious how the Sienna's AWD is like. :D
 
#3 ·
Oh, the "I came to a complete stop while driving uphill on glare ice with boulders in front of the rear wheels." test.

If this is a problem for you, get winter tires and take a winter & off-road driving course. Either that or get a Jeep or Land Rover.

As for getting out of a snowy/icy parking spot, I had no difficulty on the standard all-season tires.
 
#4 ·
Qest T. Silverclaw said:
If this is a problem for you, get winter tires and take a winter & off-road driving course. Either that or get a Jeep or Land Rover.
I do have winter tires and though didnt take a winter driving course, have plenty of winter driving experience while I was in Canada. I have never got stuck completely, though there have been occasions when I had wheel spins in snow\ice. What I am curious about is how Sienna AWD will work in a situation where there is zero traction either in the front pair or on the rear pair of wheels. Also am trying to figure out if there would be any difference between the second gen Sienna Vs. the current gen when it comes to situations like this. So essentially am not looking for advice on what I should get but a bit of info on how the system works. If you can add any useful info with regards to that topic, then that would be nice.

Qest T. Silverclaw said:
As for getting out of a snowy/icy parking spot, I had no difficulty on the standard all-season tires.
May be you are one of the best and experienced drivers out there. But many ordinary folks like me or my friend are not so lucky.
 
#5 ·
I didn't mean to disparage anyone but the people involved with the video. My point was that the situation shown in the video is quite ridiculous. That they hid the simulated boulders behind a wall makes it even more deceptive than other, similar videos that have been posted here of the same kind of test.

Also, I'm not a winter driving wizard, I just wanted to point out that in my experience, the AWD system is sufficient for entering/exiting parking spots. I used neither special skill, nor unusual training to get in or out regardless of conditions.
 
#6 ·
Since Toyota makes none of the claims discussed, I suspect it will fail the test. The documentation I have seen only refers to lateral loss of traction, not to three of four wheels. The Owner's Manual only has the basics.

TRAC (Traction Control)
Helps to maintain drive power and prevent the drive wheels from spinning when starting the vehicle or accelerating on slippery roads. (Page 299)

TRAC may not operate effectively when Directional control and power may not be achievable while driving on slippery road surfaces, even if the TRAC system is operating. Do not drive the vehicle in conditions where stability and power may be lost. (Page 303)
The New Car Features document goes a bit more technical, but only a bit.

Helps restrain the slippage of the drive wheels if the driver depresses the accelerator pedal excessively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery surface.
and

TRAC helps prevent the drive wheels from slipping if the driver depresses the accelerator pedal excessively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery surface. Used simultaneously with hydraulic brake control over the drive wheels, the skid control ECU requests the ECM to perform engine output control. This produces drive force suited to the driving conditions in order to ensure proper start-off acceleration.
Toyota seems to focus on dynamic control rather than getting out of slippery spots from rest.
 
#7 ·
I have a 2011 LE FWD, and really like it, except for its lack of traction in tough situations. I live on a crappy dirt road in the sticks. It's at least a mile to pavement in all directions, and 10% + grades with curves at the bottom all ways in and out as well. Absolutely no problem in my Subarus, but the FWD Sienna, even with four Nokian snow tires, is worthless on these roads once the going gets slippy. The traction control is too aggressive to get the thing going, and shutting it off brings 265hp to the front wheels really quick. I'm no professional rally driver, but I like to think I have average car control skills. My (almost flat) driveway is unfortunately a three inch thick sheet of ice at the moment, and it is a challenge to get the Sienna into the garage.

We test drove an AWD Sienna a few weeks ago, and took it to a local ski area parking lot with a very icy grade. Even with all-season run-flats, the AWD was worlds better getting going than the FWD with good snows. It wasn't as good as my Subaru wagon with snows, but it wasn't bad.

We're now waiting for our AWD XLE to arrive (allegedly no later than Wednesday...couldn't resist upgrading to leather and butt warmers, but I didn't want DVD or nav, regardless of cost). Sure hope it gets here soon, with the preview of mud season we had on Friday, I don't want to be trying to get in and out of here with front drive in March and April. I'll throw the snows on it for a few weeks and see how it does! If for some reason this isn't enough, I don't know what I'm going to do, short of a 4x4 Suburban (yuck) or getting a new Outback with a big Thule rack to put grandma in. ;D
 
#8 ·
This video gets "discovered" by members rather often. I have driven this new AWD Sienna through the Sierra mountains with some really nasty snow and ice. With the winter Blizzak tires the van maintained complete control. I bought a set of chains for emergencies but have not had to use them yet.

I'm sure this van will someday come across winter conditions it can not deal with but when that happens I'll just turn up the heated seats. ;D
 
#9 ·
Narboza said:
TRAC helps prevent the drive wheels from slipping if the driver depresses the accelerator pedal excessively when starting off or accelerating on a slippery surface. Used simultaneously with hydraulic brake control over the drive wheels, the skid control ECU requests the ECM to perform engine output control. This produces drive force suited to the driving conditions in order to ensure proper start-off acceleration.
Toyota seems to focus on dynamic control rather than getting out of slippery spots from rest.
I think that nails it. Thanks.
 
#10 ·
thanks ingram4868 and fiasco. I am glad to hear that 2011 AWD - even with all seasons - is giving better results in snow and ice than the FWD. I always put snow tires during winter (after a going into ditch incident in rural Canada a while ago) and I guess I will be better equipped to deal with the winter.

I know that the Subaru video might have been a little biased towards their product lines, but I was really curious the real life comparison of the circumstances. I have a home in Milton, ON and family and friends in nearby Halton Hills area. Its moderately rural with narrow two lane roads slightly elevated from the farmland surrounding the road. This means, in snowy conditions if you slip, you could go into the ditch. Some of the folks I have there have their houses up fairly steep inclines. One of my family member has an Ody and he always complain how tough its to get it up the incline during snow\ice. Once I went there two days after heavy snow storm and my 2004 LE AWD with Blizzak snow made it up with no problem at all. I was just comparing that experience with what I saw in the video. That basically triggered those questions I posted earlier because I am also curious to know the behavior of 2011 AWD models compared the previous version AWD models. fiasco's driving experience was a good input and it looks like 2011 AWD is at par with the previous gen. models.
 
#11 ·
sarin_j said:
thanks ingram4868 and fiasco. I am glad to hear that 2011 AWD - even with all seasons - is giving better results in snow and ice than the FWD. I always put snow tires during winter (after a going into ditch incident in rural Canada a while ago) and I guess I will be better equipped to deal with the winter.

I know that the Subaru video might have been a little biased towards their product lines, but I was really curious the real life comparison of the circumstances. I have a home in Milton, ON and family and friends in nearby Halton Hills area. Its moderately rural with narrow two lane roads slightly elevated from the farmland surrounding the road. This means, in snowy conditions if you slip, you could go into the ditch. Some of the folks I have there have their houses up fairly steep inclines. One of my family member has an Ody and he always complain how tough its to get it up the incline during snow\ice. Once I went there two days after heavy snow storm and my 2004 LE AWD with Blizzak snow made it up with no problem at all. I was just comparing that experience with what I saw in the video. That basically triggered those questions I posted earlier because I am also curious to know the behavior of 2011 AWD models compared the previous version AWD models. fiasco's driving experience was a good input and it looks like 2011 AWD is at par with the previous gen. models.
Ahhh...Halton Hills, spent many years of my life growing up in Oakville and miss that corner of Ontario, though with my wife's family in Toronto, we do visit pretty often.

When it comes to AWD vs FWD and all seasons vs winter tires, the general formula seems to be:

AWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ all seasons > FWD w/ winter tires > FWD w/ all seasons

With my GL450, this is the first car I've had in more than 15 years that I do not have a dedicated set of winter tires mounted on their own wheels for; partially due to the fact that the 20" size on the GL is an odd size. And with some freakishly wild storms that have rolled through these last 2 winters, the all season run flats have never left me stranded.

But while AWD helps with the initial traction when accelerating, I really notice the deficiencies compared to winter tires when braking and cornering, especially when the surface is packed snow or icy. So due care is still required with AWD - it does not yet defy the Newtonian laws of physics.

My wife's current '08 Odyssey has a set of Blizzaks mounted on wheels and they've served us well, even on a very stormy drive through upstate NY returning to Toronto one Christmas. But the FWD setup means that when moving off from a standstill, the traction can be at a premium even with the winter tires.

The best setup I've ever had was an '04 Audi A8L with Bridgestone Blizzaks - the Quattro combination with the tires were amazing in all types of snow and icy conditions, from highways to unplowed local streets with fresh or tracked snow.

And since my wife has decided to get a Sienna Limited AWD this time with the Honda lease ending, I'm still undecided if we'll get a set of snows for the Toyota given my generally positive experience with my GL on all seasons.
 
#12 ·
Arkay said:
sarin_j said:
When it comes to AWD vs FWD and all seasons vs winter tires, the general formula seems to be:

AWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ all seasons > FWD w/ winter tires > FWD w/ all seasons
Actually, since AWD can't really help in braking or turning off throttle applications the correct formula would be:

AWD w/ winter tires > FWD w/ winter tires > AWD w/ all seasons > FWD w/ all seasons
 
#13 ·
In terms of the video, I believe the current gen Sienna AWD will failed just like the HL. Even though the video really try to sell subaru's AWD system, I really don't see any reason why they will hide something from other AWD SUV.

I think most AWD will do better on light snow and ice over FWD. Of course, by the time you add snow tires it just give you better traction. Back in the old day, there weren't that many AWD/4WD and people still able to get in and out ok so we shouldn't worry too much about that.
 
#14 ·
2011 Sienna AWD should be...

... compared to the current Highlander: similar (it's the same system)
... compared to a 2004-2010 Sienna: inferior, since the rear wheels are not driven until the fronts slip, but maybe not much practical difference (it depends greatly on the details of the centre coupling and control logic used in the new setup, and the brake application by TRACs in both)
... compared to a 2WD Sienna: far superior in low-traction conditions (any contribution by the rear tires is a bonus)
 
#16 ·
Having had a 2009 AWD Sienna, now a 2813 Sienna AWD and Subaru 3.0, the video definitely made me wonder if my new van was going to be a disappointment in snowy conditions.

My Subaru has a front to rear power bias of 45:55 so throttle-on powerslides can be attained with heavy throttle applications. It does not understeer with extreme driving styles which is FUN. Of course, driven normally the traction and grip is fantastic too!

Now, my 2009 Sienna. AWD was fantastic in the snow but due to the inability to switch off the traction control and Stability Control there was only so much fun to be had before the electronic nannies stepped in and slowed the van to a crawl. Still, traction was surprisingly good! NO COMPLAINTS!

My 2013 Sienna AWD is fantastic in the snow too! The system's ability to detect slip is almost seamless. A few times I could feel the 'slip before grip' nature of the system, but for the most part, it was seamless. The 2013 has the ability to disable the nannies so I gave it a whirl. Well, the fun is back baby! Rally -style power oversteer powerslides are possible, just like in my Subaru! That is, driven in this aggressive style, the van will predictably oversteer! No helpless understeer! Normal driving is just as confidence inspiring. Lots of traction with the AWD system providing what you need.

My 2004 Envoy had an AUTO feature on the 4wd system that definitely had more slip before traction was applied to the other axle compared to the system in the 2013 Sienna. That being said, the AUTO feature in that truck was perfect AT LEAST 90% of the time, even in deep snow. So, the system in the new Sienna is even more responsive and I am pleased.

If I were to rate the 2009 AWD vs 2013 AWD Sienna, I would rate the newer system, from a practical standpoint a conservative 9.0/10 vs 10/10 for the old, just because the odd time you could detect the system working, not traction at all four wheels all the time. Generally though, I feel in day to day situations, both vans drive so similarly that for all intents and purposes they are equal. The new van can be more fun to drive though, as I have already explained.

BTW, all vehicles were/are equipped with dedicated -1 snow package sizing.
 
#17 ·
Seinna awd is better than just fwd, and subaru awd sure it's better but how often do you get into a situation where only one wheel is needed to get out of the situation? i used to have 2005 WRX STi, and it sure was a fantastic sports car, but Subaru's awd system has some limitation too. subaru's awd can not go many places that toyota FJcruiser, 4runner, sequoia, landcruiser's 4x4 can go. Subaru just don't have the car like Sienna. wrong comparison to begin with anyway. If want reall off road and stuff~ awd is not going to do it. choose from one of the toyota's 4x4! FJ cruiser will go anywhere just like the jeep. Jeep is the king of 4x4.
 
#18 ·
Even 4X4 has limitations-there is no perfect system. Dedicated offroad vehicles aren't ideal on roads. Road biased vehicles aren't ideal offroad, this is common sense.

The owners manuals for Sienna AWD And Subaru spell it out- these are ROAD BIASED AWD SYSTEMS. You are right, how many times will you need one wheel to pull yourself out of a ditch or whatever... I can't tell you, I've never been in this situation, I looked for as deep snow as possible on road and never had an issue with any of my cars. I've heard the Audi system is the best, but I doubt their owners take their cars (Allroad, Q series suv included!) off road so it is doubtful you will find their owners complain about the limitations of their AWD system too. Doesn't mean it is perfect...
So, for snowy, muddy or slippery ROAD situations, slow or fast driving, I found my Siennas and Subaru with snow tires excellent in these situations. As for the one-wheel-traction test, I don't know what to say, I guess the Subaru system is better then.
 
#20 ·
I don't have any experience driving an AWD Sienna on beach sand, but I have experience watching them go past me when I was stuck in the sand in my Saab 9-5 Aero wagon. The ability to drive on the beach is one of the reasons I went with the '13 XLE AWD I picked up a few days ago. Say what you will about allowing people to drive on the beach (I'm not the biggest fan of that practice but ever since moving to Seattle from Chicago 3 years ago I've embraced it a bit), but having AWD will make a beach journey quite a bit more enjoyable than getting stuck. I had an '08 Mercedes R350 4Matic that was brilliant on the sand, it was nearly impossible to get stuck if the sand was flat. Hopefully the Sienna will be decent as well.
 
#21 ·
Having had a 2009 AWD Sienna, now a 2813 Sienna AWD and Subaru 3.0, the video definitely made me wonder if my new van was going to be a disappointment in snowy conditions.

My Subaru has a front to rear power bias of 45:55 so throttle-on powerslides can be attained with heavy throttle applications. It does not understeer with extreme driving styles which is FUN. Of course, driven normally the traction and grip is fantastic too!

Now, my 2009 Sienna. AWD was fantastic in the snow but due to the inability to switch off the traction control and Stability Control there was only so much fun to be had before the electronic nannies stepped in and slowed the van to a crawl. Still, traction was surprisingly good! NO COMPLAINTS!

My 2013 Sienna AWD is fantastic in the snow too! The system's ability to detect slip is almost seamless. A few times I could feel the 'slip before grip' nature of the system, but for the most part, it was seamless. The 2013 has the ability to disable the nannies so I gave it a whirl. Well, the fun is back baby! Rally -style power oversteer powerslides are possible, just like in my Subaru! That is, driven in this aggressive style, the van will predictably oversteer! No helpless understeer! Normal driving is just as confidence inspiring. Lots of traction with the AWD system providing what you need.

My 2004 Envoy had an AUTO feature on the 4wd system that definitely had more slip before traction was applied to the other axle compared to the system in the 2013 Sienna. That being said, the AUTO feature in that truck was perfect AT LEAST 90% of the time, even in deep snow. So, the system in the new Sienna is even more responsive and I am pleased.

If I were to rate the 2009 AWD vs 2013 AWD Sienna, I would rate the newer system, from a practical standpoint a conservative 9.0/10 vs 10/10 for the old, just because the odd time you could detect the system working, not traction at all four wheels all the time. Generally though, I feel in day to day situations, both vans drive so similarly that for all intents and purposes they are equal. The new van can be more fun to drive though, as I have already explained.

BTW, all vehicles were/are equipped with dedicated -1 snow package sizing.
Hmmm this is the exact opposite of what experienced with my 2013 Sienna.

As snow arrived the other day :( I took the sienna out for a drive to see how it handled in the snow and it drove like a FWD (Fail Wheel Drive). Did the usual slow turn in then gave some throttle to rotate the van and all the van did was plow like a mofo. Front wheels spun up with torque steer and the rear wheels seemed to have almost no drive at all so all it did was plow forward tried a couple times to get it going but nothing. Will try to turn off the nannies and find a parking lot and see if that will fix it.