Hey you have the rake of a truck!

Anyway, sounds like minivans can use stiffer springs just like some SUVs for better handling. I'm not quite sure what you mean by installing a spacer to deal with a .38 degree toe issue though? Are you talking about shims?

 

Yea no kidding, I looks like an old S-10 with new rear leaf springs!

Yes, I do mean a shim for the toe issue.

 

Good news from Firestone this morning! By raising the back end, I actually took my toe issue and split the difference between toe and camber. The result was that they are both in the "acceptable" range. If I added a shim on the left rear, I'd create and issue on the right rear and throw my total toe off.

 

Just for future readers... this is not really a good solution for handling a heavy trailer tongue weight. Heavy duty coils will do nothing to get weight back on the front wheels. A FWD van will still have the same reduced traction and both FWD and AWD will have the same steering issues as before.

A much better solution when towing is using a weight distributing hitch (WDH) which will actually get weight back on the front wheels improving traction and steering.

I'm not sure about gen3 vans, but gen2 has a 350 lb tongue weight limit (trailer tongue plus anything else on the hitch) in a weight carrying (non-WDH) capacity. My 2007 is rated at up to 525 lbs with WDH (though my receiver is only rated to 500 with WDH).

-Mike

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

I agree a WDH is probably an overall better option. My receiver supports a 525lb tongue weight without WDH.

From what I have found, the Sienna manual lists strict axle load limits and gross vehicle weight limits. And it also speaks to a percentage of tow weight recommendations regarding tongue weight. That recommendation seems to be made with concern to trailer sway. It also says not to exceed receiver ratings, but I haven’t found a strict tongue weight limit in the manual yet. Has anyone else found one?

About the the only dual receiver that will work with WDHs are the GEN-Y standard drop/rise hitches. Ultimately, I’d like to get a:
GEN-Y 7.5” rise
GEN-Y WDH shank
WDH
To get that setup all squared away, I’d be pushing north of $700. If anyone has any good affordable WDH experiences, I’m all ears. eTrailer had some super expensive recommendations. And I’m pretty confident I’d still have some clearance issues absent a rear lift.

Using dual receiver allows me to run the bike rack I have. There are other options out there for carrying bikes, but this is what has worked best for me.

Additionally, I haven’t had any sway issues and my tow weight is only 2,000lbs.

I get that the WDH creates a “virtual” balance point that springs don’t achieve. But with the rake being raised to this degree, it will surely balance weight between the front and rear axles better than my previous rear sagging option did.

 

It sounds like you needed the aftermarket springs regardless if you're towing or not. Some trucks, especially overlanders are the same way. They always upgrade their rear springs for heavier duty ones due to weight in the rear of their vehicle and for towing. I know on my 2011 Pathfinder, the rear springs come with very soft springs from the factory, just a little weight and a passenger in the 3rd row and you're bottoming out as well. Airbags and factory Armada springs in the rear seems to be a cheap go-to for the same issue you're having. I have an OME lift kit going in to resolve the rear bottoming out and a bit better offroad capability when required as well.

 

It seems that the aesthetics of a level vehicle and the push for ultimate aerodynamics have contributed to this being a pretty common problem.

I went from an 06’ Sienna FWD Limited (some factory rake) to this 16’ Sienna FWD XLE (nearly level). I was super bummed the first time I pulled out of my driveway with the same trailer and just murdered the concrete bottoming out.

From my experience it seems that the 3rd Gens are obviously lower to start and have softer springs.

So are you saying that folks can stuff Armada springs in a Pathfinder?!? If so, that is pretty cool and must be more affordable than full custom.

 

i have the same mood on to a 2018 from them and i love them but here this, i want to do the front to but they do not have the spring specifications and for that they ask to buy with mi money a OEM front spring to study and test and build a new one with mi specifications. i just say no but probably at one point i will agree

 

That is pretty interesting. So they want you to buy and send them a front OEM set for R&D? Is your goal to raise the front with custom coils?

So far on my setup, the spring rate seems good, the back doesn’t feel light or hoppy compared to the front.

 

Just needs drag slicks and it'll look right!

 

On my FWD I replaced my springs with AWD springs from same year, front and back. Added about 1' of height gain along with larger tires. (After loading it down, an extra 1200 lbs camper conversion, I had to add airbags to the coils, which restored height loss in the rear) Someone else mentioned using rear springs from a Honda Odyssey.

 

What size tires did you settle on? I’ve been thinking getting a Light Truck (LT) rated tire versus the Passenger (P) rated tires. There would probably be a little bit of a comfort sacrifice in exchange for longer life.

How many miles do you have on the AirLift? I’m curious how long they typically hold up.

 

I went from 215/65/16 to 225/70/16 tires. Cooper AT3's, which are large for their size according to Tirerack .com. I felt pretty comfortable on some pretty crummy dirt roads. The tires seems a bit soft, but after the dirt/rock, I get why they are that way.
The car definitely struggles more going up steep grades and I lost about 2 MPG. On the bright side I did about 300 miles of dirt and didn't hit any rocks despite going over some pretty big ones, and felt my clearance was adequate for just about everything I needed.

So far I've put about 2000 miles on the set of them, airlift included. Up into elevation, serious dirt/rock road roads, and quite loaded down, seemed fine. I did check pressure once up in elevation, and the pressure was consistent. How long they last I couldn't say...

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. I think I’ve used those Cooper tires on trucks and SUVs at work. They are pretty good compromise Between road and dirt.

 

It's the fattest Pathfinder of them all, it's a 2011 Pathfinder V8 4x4.

 

This weekend I installed new custom rear coil springs on my 16’ FWD XLE from Coil Spring Specialists (CSS). I consulted with Kevin Crane and he spec’d our several different options for me.

Why?
I tow a trailer/bike rack combo with a 400 lb tongue weight. I continued to have major scrapping issues even with an AirLift 1000 used with a 1” spacer.

Secondly, depending on how things look when loaded, I may do a custom Traxda front spacer to gain better overall ground clearance.

How the process worked:
CSS has you run your VIN with Toyota and pull your exact OEM spring specifications. They build your custom springs off of these specifications.

Price with tax & shipping was $326.58.
Production time was right at 4 weeks as advertised.
They didn’t charge my card until the springs shipped.
Shipping was about 4 days.

Specifications:
Based off of: Rear OEM - coil spring #48231-08-051

CSS Custom Spring:
I.D. Wire Dia. Checking Load @ Checking Load Height Rate F.L. T.C.
4.50" .705" 1250# @ 11.875" 380/450#/in 15.125" 8.375

The goal was to increase ride height by 1.5” and add 425lbscarrying capacity. As a result, the spring rate increased by 30%.

My rear stock unloaded ride height was at 29.75” in the center of the wheel well.

My new unloaded ride height 32”. So, I actually gained 2.25”.

I wasn’t banking on that much of a gain and therefore rake, but it actually seems fine so far. The ride quality is firmer and there seems to be less body roll. I definitely need to adjust my headlights.

I’m getting an alignment tomorrow and I may have a spacer installed to deal with a .38 degree tow issue.

Later this week will embark on a 1,200 mile trip, 5 people suitcases, a roof box and a verticle bike rack holding 5 bikes.

Here is how it looks unloaded:

 

The Van looks great! So the picture is with rear springs only? Nothing up front yet? I'm considering the journeys kit but I'd rather improve my rear springs and just get spacers for the front. My wife is actually into the idea because of Minnesnowta winters. I'm not sure if you can just by front spacers only - maybe springs all around is the way to go.

 

The rear is def the soft spot in the suspension. With any lift -- Traxda or Journey -- it becomes even more obvious that the rear wants to squat when loaded. If you're loaded consistently / most of the time, heavier duty springs make sense. Otherwise, airbags are inexpensive and accomplish the reduction of squat (but not the lift.)

 

Just got back from a camping trip with the whole bike rack/pop up combo and we didn’t scrape the hitch once! I had the bags at 30 psi and the ride quality was great. With the added height and capacity of the rear springs it was smooth sailing.

Unless I go with a full dual receiver WDH setup ($1000+/-), I can’t swing a front lift. I would just end up Baja’d out when towing, which is what I was trying to correct in the first place. So I’ll be leaving things as is for now. Which means I’ll continue to grit my teeth when scrapping the front end in certain parking lots...

On a side note, we averaged just over 17mpg while towing!

 

I will start my project thread soon but wanted opinions. I am installing the Journey's kit and airlift 1000 but wondered while I had it apart if I should beef up the rear shocks. I would only want a little increase, not as much as 22ranger. I installed a 675lb receiver and plan on having a RIGd Supply Ultraswing tire carrier (full size spare) with a Kuat bike rack. ?

 

I’d say if you plan on hauling all that, you should probably go with custom coils in the rear. The weight carrying capacity and trim height are two different specs that then effect the spring rate according to CSS.

And again, they screwed up the specs on mine and it ended up with more lift than intended.

Would you still use a fair bit of the rear Journey components? Maybe skip the spring cups but use the rest?

I considered just going with the Traxda spacer up front to complete my lift. But I’ve got too much weight going on in the back end for now.

 

So I’d had a couple instances of “topping out” the rear shocks over speed bumps and rough driveways etc since installing the rear coils.

I reached out to Traxda to clarify the rear instructions the have for their lift that tell you to add spacers on top of the shock.

I sent them this diagram/question:

They replied
“On top of the "shoulder" of the shock.

We are trying to make the shock longer, and use all the threads of the stem top on the shock.”

I still wasn’t super clear. But after taking things apart and looking at them I settled on adding spacers on top of the “Spring Bumper Shoulder”. 1/2 washer don’t fit, so I got 5/8 zinc washers. I added x3 on each side totaling 9mm or 3/8.

Before threads:

After threads:

This seems to have almost resolved the issue entirely. It still tops out if I hit a big speed bump straight on at 10mph. Has anyone tried using the mobility shocks with a rear lift for added length?

 

Off to the fastener store this morning. I’m gonna attempt to do this or some variation of it. Thank you for the detailed photos. Turns out the shock extenders from traxda won’t work. They supply a 1” x 3/8” spacer with 1/4” hole. When placed on the shock piston the OD won’t clear a foam yellowish or rubber insulator up inside the plastic guard. And when place on the outside above the shock assembly the hole is too narrow to slip over silver the sleeve that extends upwards into the car body mount. I installed the Monroe shocks you mentioned. I think the length is perfect but to me they are too soft. I’m not sure if heavy duty shocks come oem on my 19 AWD but compared to them they have a lot less resistance and a much quicker travel. With the Monroe’s I can move the rear of my car with very little downward force and practically no effort. Gonna try and make use of the OEM’s before I settle with the Monroe’s. The number on the side of my Toyota shock body is 48531-08060 and measures 27 3/4” resting.

 

There were a few posts back and forth trying to figure out the shock top out issue on the Traxda post.

I gave Journey’s Off Road a call today to see if they would sell the “Rear Bump Stop/Shock Extensions” separately and they don’t. Mike at JORs explained that they sell some “upgrade components” separately, but that this piece is engineered to be part of the kit.

Also, he said that he used to sell a kit he designed that was nearly identical to the Traxda. He said he stopped selling it because of longevity concerns and specifically issues with the rear toe turning into camber. happens when the rear axle is rotated down without also dropping the torsion beam hinges.

For whatever reason, my rear lift actually resolved an excessive toe issue I had by splitting it with camber.

The other options I have at this point would be to have a welder fabricate a shock extension or have a suspension shop cut the springs down a bit.

But for how infrequently I have this issue, I’ll just avoid clobbering speed bumps straight on and enjoy the results the other 99% of the time!

 

Anyone know what the stock shock length and stroke is?

I found another possible shock top out solution: using Toyota spec mobility shocks?

I contacted KYB regarding their different shocks and they confirmed that the mobility version is 1” longer than the non-mobility and has a slightly longer stroke.

Me:

KYB:

 

Here are some additional specs I’ve found:

The Monroe 37301 is 27.560 long with a 10.46 stroke.

The KYB 344480 is 27.12 long with a 9.88 stroke.

Has anyone used the Monroe shock long-term? Sounds like it has a different mounting system than OEM or KYB.

I found this awesome DIY lift while researching the shocks.

 

This weekend I installed new custom rear coil springs on my 16’ FWD XLE from Coil Spring Specialists (CSS). I consulted with Kevin Crane and he spec’d our several different options for me.

Why?
I tow a trailer/bike rack combo with a 400 lb tongue weight. I continued to have major scrapping issues even with an AirLift 1000 used with a 1” spacer.

Secondly, depending on how things look when loaded, I may do a custom Traxda front spacer to gain better overall ground clearance.

How the process worked:
CSS has you run your VIN with Toyota and pull your exact OEM spring specifications. They build your custom springs off of these specifications.

Price with tax & shipping was $326.58.
Production time was right at 4 weeks as advertised.
They didn’t charge my card until the springs shipped.
Shipping was about 4 days.

Specifications:
Based off of: Rear OEM - coil spring #48231-08-051

CSS Custom Spring:
I.D. Wire Dia. Checking Load @ Checking Load Height Rate F.L. T.C.
4.50" .705" 1250# @ 11.875" 380/450#/in 15.125" 8.375

The goal was to increase ride height by 1.5” and add 425lbscarrying capacity. As a result, the spring rate increased by 30%.

My rear stock unloaded ride height was at 29.75” in the center of the wheel well.

My new unloaded ride height 32”. So, I actually gained 2.25”.

I wasn’t banking on that much of a gain and therefore rake, but it actually seems fine so far. The ride quality is firmer and there seems to be less body roll. I definitely need to adjust my headlights.

I’m getting an alignment tomorrow and I may have a spacer installed to deal with a .38 degree tow issue.

Later this week will embark on a 1,200 mile trip, 5 people suitcases, a roof box and a verticle bike rack holding 5 bikes.

Here is how it looks unloaded:

22Ranger,
Prior to installing the custom springs, where were you able to find a 1" spacer for the rear and do you recall how much actual lift you got out of em? Im about to lift my van... Thanks for the info.

P.S. glad to see the monroe shock soved the top on issues. No additional washer or spacers needed, right?

 

So the 1” spacer I used was recommended by an AirLift tec and was just for the air bag kit inside the OEM coil. When fully loaded it maybe stunted the droop by 3/4”. It is literally a solid rubber puck that just floats under the airbag, unsecured. I really didn’t care for and a different AirLift tec said it was not something they should recommend as it can be too rigid. They actually warrantied the bags and let me spec a custom length set for the custom coils of had ordered.

Yes, the shocks are perfect at this point. Solved the top out completely and sturdy mount points on both ends. No sketchy adapters required.

 

 

With the washers, you will probably be fine 90% of the time. I think the real world measurements folks have been posting for the Traxda are typically less than the 2.25” I ended up with from the CSS springs.

Do you have plans to use airbags? Since you always run a little air in them, they may have a general dampening effect.

 

An update to the instructions?
I just installed these today. 2019 SEP fwd. looks like they changed the instructions (or everyone feels they know better?). Clearly states the disk and fill lines facing down. Saw on some reviews where the lines were being crushed against the body and cracking. I guess this is the fix... hang em in road hazards way?

 

An update to the instructions?
I just installed these today. 2019 SEP fwd. looks like they changed the instructions (or everyone feels they know better?). Clearly states the disk and fill lines facing down. Saw on some reviews where the lines were being crushed against the body and cracking. I guess this is the fix... hang em in road hazards way?
[/QUOTE

I’ve heard of the AirLift bags being installed both way. The coil seats for rear suspension did change in 17’ or 18’. So there may be a good reason for it.

I installed them lines up in an 06’ and this 16’ and routed them the same way (through the top of the spring seat, along the brake lines and down to the rocker panels) with no issues.

 

In my gen2, the upper spring seat had a large hole in the middle, so it was a no brainer for me to orient and route the air lines (and plastic spacer) out the top and safe. Never had a problem with the air line or connection. I left enough slack above the spring seat to allow for some movement, but not enough that it could get pinched.

-Mike

 

Well not so much pinched as the supplied hoses are junk. Harden up and crack. The suspension boxes generally are pretty much the same top and bottom. Hole in the middle.

it makes sense to put the buffer at the bottom I guess. The bag should never touch the top.

 

Yea no issues here with the top routing. I’m realizing now that I actually had two different AirLift/Coil set ups on the 16’.

I’ve spoken with AirLift tec support about the Sienna product several times and they had no issue with the top route. They actually sold me a second spacer to run on the bottom with the original kit.

I’ve got enough room with the CSS Coils I could probably have spacers on both sides. However, the ends really don’t seem to take much wear. The “mating surface” is really the interior of the coils and the sides of the bags. They really don’t seem to be designed to carry much of the load on the ends.

 

Hey, 22Ranger, what would i have to do to get the same springs as you? Planning on taking a cross-country trip next Oct and will be pulling a travel trailer. Thanks.

 

Sounds like a fun trip! Do you have a weight distribution hitch? It will effect how much of an increase in weight capacity you want/need from the springs.

If you call CSS, they have quite a few questions they run through to help you sort out your needs. You’ll need the VIN specific springs part number from Toyota to provide to them.

Feel free to reference my order #35378 with them. And here are the specs I requested:
+1.5” unloaded (stock height loaded)
+425lbs capacity

I actually ended up with +2.25” unloaded which necessitated the shock replacement referenced in this post. Ride has still been great, no issues unloaded and tows like a dream when I pump up the AirLift.

Good luck!

 

I'm also interested in stiffer rear springs, with additional height. Glad I found this post. I have a '13 so I'll have to cross check part #'s....

 

I think it should be the same parts. It would just change for 7 or 8 passenger or AWD specifications.

-IF- anybody goes this route, take my advice and paint them before installing! The CSS paint is totally disappointing and has began rusting pretty significantly. I’m going to have to deflate the bags and try to paint them in place! It was a serious effort to compress them to install them, I don’t want to repeat it already...