Just a thought - when you say the shop is no longer in business, do you know why? That’s a red flag, could they have been unscrupulous and installed used parts or something along those lines.

 

I appreciate your reply. We've used the shop for two decades and know the owner and main auto tech there very well. Heck, his wife works at my kids school (small town) and we see her almost daily. As the news article and word of mouth stated, he simply got an offer to buy the property that he couldn't refuse and was at an age where he wanted to get out of the business. I don't think anything nefarious was happening or did happen. Good thought though. I would ask the same question!

 

1. Is it possible that the dealer who put the new tires on 1,600 miles ago overtightened the lugs and caused the rotors to warp? If they did overtighten, how soon would that become apparent?


[/QUOTE]
It is indeed, at least the overtightening at least . The tire stores for sure will. There is a torque for the lugs ( 76 ft. pounds for a 2009) but proving if and when it might cause warping is any ones guess.
I don't have this problem at all on on the gen II i have but this does seem to be more of a problem on the gen III's . I think the parts aren't quite as good as the gen II's.
I don't know what your wrenching capabilities are but having a good 1/2 drive torque wrench would be a necessity for me anyway. if for nothing else but to check wheel nut torques after a tire rotation or any other repairs that involve taking the wheel off.
And changing the rotors out for different ones is really rather easy, like a 15 minute job for both sides if you have the tools and or will to do it.

 

1. Is it possible that the dealer who put the new tires on 1,600 miles ago overtightened the lugs and caused the rotors to warp? If they did overtighten, how soon would that become apparent?

It is indeed, at least the overtightening at least . The tire stores for sure will. There is a torque for the lugs ( 76 ft. pounds for a 2009) but proving if and when it might cause warping is any ones guess.
I don't have this problem at all on on the gen II i have but this does seem to be more of a problem on the gen III's . I think the parts aren't quite as good as the gen II's.
I don't know what your wrenching capabilities are but having a good 1/2 drive torque wrench would be a necessity for me anyway. if for nothing else but to check wheel nut torques after a tire rotation or any other repairs that involve taking the wheel off.
And changing the rotors out for different ones is really rather easy, like a 15 minute job for both sides if you have the tools and or will to do it.
[/QUOTE]


Thanks for your reply.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I do in fact have a 1/2" tq wrench that I used to use more frequently when I did different stuff myself.

I remember checking the tq on the wheels when we had the last set of tires installed (before this most recent set) at Costco. They INSISTED that we bring it back in 50 miles or something to have them re-tighten but I promised them I had a tq wrench and could do it... and I did. I've never really re-checked after a rotation and I've never had any trouble with the local dealership in that regard.

I also wouldn't really know how to check for OVER-tightening with the tq wrench. Novice question but if the ft/lb is, say, 76 to tighten, would it be the same tq to break it free? I could go out right now and check it out if so but for some reason I figured that "breakaway" tq was different than tightening...

I'll have to be more diligent moving forward and re-tighten the lugs after anytime the wheels are (re)moved. I'll also have to consider doing my own brakes in the future. I've done them on an old Honda but it's been a LOOOOONG time and I used my dads tools/garage and oversight.

Thanks again for your input!

 

Loosen one and re torque it and then loosen it again, that would tell you yes. I can tell just breaking them loose that they used an impact on them. And 76 foot pounds is for my year, I don't know for certain what the spec. Is for your year. Will it warp a rotor if overtightened ? i don't know, some believe so. As "cheesy" as some of the parts have become it would seem possible.
The toyota rotors are still fairly robust compared to other stuff i have seen. I went 100,000 when i bought new ones but i could and should have just slapped new pads on it.

I have never had any pulsation like you descripe. The gen 3's seem to suffer this more often.
This whole topic of "warped" rotors can get heated in some circles. Many claim they don't really warp but rather its a deposit of brake pad material on spots on the rotor that is what is really causing the vibration. If that's true this might improve in a few days of driving.

 

I seem to get 30k miles out of my brake pads and rotors on my 2014. Changed them at 70k (aftermarket el cheapo brand), 101 (back to OEM), 128 (NAPA premium), and they are shaking again at 152k. I'm trying the "super premium" coated one this time. My shop seems to think this is excessive brake rotor warpage, to coin a word. They also think its just the fronts. They can see where they got real hot at some point, "bluing" of the metal... a trip through the Alleghanie Mountains comes to mind. Engine braking didn't do much.

I logged on today to see if 25-30k miles was short for rotor lifespan and it was funny (except not funny for OP, I'm sure) to see this as the first topic listed.

 

I seem to get 30k miles out of my brake pads and rotors on my 2014. Changed them at 70k (aftermarket el cheapo brand), 101 (back to OEM), 128 (NAPA premium), and they are shaking again at 152k. I'm trying the "super premium" coated one this time. My shop seems to think this is excessive brake rotor warpage, to coin a word. They also think its just the fronts. They can see where they got real hot at some point, "bluing" of the metal... a trip through the Alleghanie Mountains comes to mind. Engine braking didn't do much. I logged on today to see if 25-30k miles was short for rotor lifespan and it was funny (except not funny for OP, I'm sure) to see this as the first topic listed.

This is consistent with my experience as well, even after the TSB fixed by Toyota, see my write up here: https://www.siennachat.com/threads/best-quality-heavy-duty-aftermarket-rotors.18413/post-440131 I'm going to buy premium rotor by PowerStop next to see if I can exceed 40k miles.

 

Loosen one and re torque it and then loosen it again, that would tell you yes. I can tell just breaking them loose that they used an impact on them. And 76 foot pounds is for my year, I don't know for certain what the spec. Is for your year. Will it warp a rotor if overtightened ? i don't know, some believe so. As "cheesy" as some of the parts have become it would seem possible.
The toyota rotors are still fairly robust compared to other stuff i have seen. I went 100,000 when i bought new ones but i could and should have just slapped new pads on it.

I have never had any pulsation like you descripe. The gen 3's seem to suffer this more often.
This whole topic of "warped" rotors can get heated in some circles. Many claim they don't really warp but rather its a deposit of brake pad material on spots on the rotor that is what is really causing the vibration. If that's true this might improve in a few days of driving.

Thanks for your help. I'm going to check the lugs later this week and see what's up.

I seem to get 30k miles out of my brake pads and rotors on my 2014. Changed them at 70k (aftermarket el cheapo brand), 101 (back to OEM), 128 (NAPA premium), and they are shaking again at 152k. I'm trying the "super premium" coated one this time. My shop seems to think this is excessive brake rotor warpage, to coin a word. They also think its just the fronts. They can see where they got real hot at some point, "bluing" of the metal... a trip through the Alleghanie Mountains comes to mind. Engine braking didn't do much.

I logged on today to see if 25-30k miles was short for rotor lifespan and it was funny (except not funny for OP, I'm sure) to see this as the first topic listed.

This is good info! Thanks for sharing your experience. Like the other message I quoted above said -- I think the 3rd gens seem to be more susceptible to brake issues as I do recall seeing discussions in the past. For me, it was just the fact that the first set of pads/rotors lasted so long but then these "new" ones that are only 12-13K miles and just over a year old are already showing signs. Now, not nearly as bad as I admittedly let the OEM ones get before swapping them out, but still noteworthy.

I should add or reiterate that I can't get any pulsating below 60-65 MPH. It's really only highway and 90% of our driving isn't at the higher speed.

Thanks for all inputs on this. I'm off to research why the transmission is so buzzy lately

 

Improperly torqued lug nuts is the most likely cause of brake pedal pulsation. Second is rotor runout due to tolerance stack of the face of the hub and mounting surface of the rotor. Here's a quick fix.

Quick fix for "warped rotors"

I'm sharing this here because I wasn't able to find this solution to the "warped rotor" problem anywhere else. Hopefully this helps a few folks. :) Long story short: I was experiencing brake judder due to uneven ceramic pad material transfer. I slapped a pair of semi-metalic pads on the...

www.siennachat.com

 

*Re: Burning smell - The calipers on our 3G AWD have seized on occasion. Obviously this will burn up your pads (the smell) and eventually warp the roters. Calipers need to be cleaned & lubed (or replaced). Did you ex-shop do this?
Re: Costco - If you *don't return for that torque check it may void your lifetime service waranty.

 

Most of the rotor warping problem is due to the front air vents being too small and causing the rotors to overheat. There is a TSB # TS-B-0045-14. It calls for cutting away part of the front flap in front of each wheel to enlarge the hole and increase air flow.

The stupid part is that the TSB came out in 2014 and one would expect later models to have this problem eliminated. When I bought my 2016 Sienna in 2019 it still had the old large flaps in front of each wheel. I trimmed them immediately as I had already done it on my old 2013 Sienna.

FYI it takes 5 minutes to trim each flap. This youtube video gives instructions and also talks about Toyota's upgraded front brake pad that is more heat resistant.

 

Thanks so much for posting this video. I checked my 2013 van and it had not been adjusted, despite having been up on the rack at three different Toyota dealerships last year for various things. Thanks!

 

My "super premium" NAPA rotors are starting to warp again after only about 6k miles. Subtle so far but I notice it, especially when they heat up braking downhill. @clutchless thank you for the TSB, my mechanic did say he thought the design of the car didn't allow for much airflow to cool the brakes... maybe that will help!

 

The powerstop kit that came up as compatible with '14 sienna is:

Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Upgrade Kit

Part #: K5828

Looks like it can be ordered from Amazon.

 

The powerstop kit that came up as compatible with '14 sienna is:

Z23 Evolution Sport Brake Upgrade Kit

Part #: K5828

Looks like it can be ordered from Amazon.

Let me know what mileage you got with the above replacement. I'm planning to use the same Z23 Brake kit on my next replacement. Currently, I'm at 30k miles on the OEM Toyota brand brake and rotor and I can feel a very light pulsating on already, but I will keep it longer until it worsens.

 

The OEM rotors are vented. They are in the center and are what rusts out. The Z23 rotors have slots and holes which will do nothing to help you stop faster, reduce mass which will make them warp faster and will increase stopping noise. Just get a normal rotor that is coated to prevent rust. Their pads do look very nice with the carbon ceramic compound.

I used Hawk LTS pads on my Sienna (they only make the front pads) and it now stops so much better than it did with the Toyota pads. Much better initial bite and faster stopping such that I am no longer worried about being able to stop in time as I did with the Toyota ceramic pads. https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/bra...ar=Limited&make=Hawk&model=LTS+Truck/SUV+Pads&group=LTS+Truck/SUV+Pads&cat=Pads

 

The OEM rotors are vented. They are in the center and are what rusts out. The Z23 rotors have slots and holes which will do nothing to help you stop faster, reduce mass which will make them warp faster and will increase stopping noise. Just get a normal rotor that is coated to prevent rust. Their pads do look very nice with the carbon ceramic compound.

I used Hawk LTS pads on my Sienna (they only make the front pads) and it now stops so much better than it did with the Toyota pads. Much better initial bite and faster stopping such that I am no longer worried about being able to stop in time as I did with the Toyota ceramic pads. https://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?autoMake=Toyota&autoModel=Sienna+AWD&autoYear=2016&autoModClar=Limited&make=Hawk&model=LTS+Truck/SUV+Pads&group=LTS+Truck/SUV+Pads&cat=Pads

Never had trouble with my rotors rusting out. Even in Wisconsin. They don't last long enough before they warp! I share your concern about noise (and possibly smoothness) with the brake upgrade kit but I think the drilled rotor would likely dissipate heat faster than the solid one. I mean, they use tech like that on Nasar and other high performance applications... not that it is necessarily applicable but on my 5th or 6th set of rotors I'm willing to roll the dice and try something new. A company that focuses on high performance parts probably uses alloys that are better designed to take a lot of heat, and dissipate it quickly.

 

Did you use the proper bedding procedure when installed?

 

In my case work was done at dealership or a good indy shop. Results were the same.

 

Well...yes, to low cost, low quality parts usually not lasting. Our vans are heavy, one needs to slow down and brake ahead of time, and use better parts or pay a lot more in the end.

A dark blue black happens when cooking pads and rotors (smells, warping, cracks, etc.), for better all around results, get better high quality iron, and high quality pads, (shown below), learn about quality iron.

Brembo brake spare parts - Distributors