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Car Seat Anchors: Deal Killer?

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47K views 47 replies 18 participants last post by  Paleblueeyes  
#1 ·
So I was all but set to sign on the dotted line and buy a Sienna tomorrow (no joke), but I just discovered something pretty devastating.

Namely, we have three car seats that we currently have all in the back of our Prius. Two are connected to the LATCH anchors, one with a seat belt, and all are connected to tether anchors on the back of the back seat.

The Prius has actually been a pretty good, versatile family car for us!

The Sienna, on the other hand? Two latch anchors in the front seats (okay, fine), one in the back in the middle of two seats (hmm, defeats the purpose of an 8 passenger van a little bit), but I checked tonight and there's also only ONE tether anchor in the back seat! WTF?!?

Did Toyota not realize minivan purchasers are going to have a lot of car seats?!? The back seat of our Prius is better-suited for a young family than the back seat of a Sienna.

With our four kids, we planned on having three car seats in the third row, the infant seat in the second row, then the other two second row seats removed to give us maximum interior space, which would thought would make it easy to maneuver and strap the kids in. Now we're not quite sure what we want to do, and getting an Odyssey instead is a definite possibility. :(

Am I crazy here, or what?
 
#2 ·
You're not crazy. I can't imagine why Toyota didn't put LATCH everywhere.

I did read in Consumer Reports a few years ago when they accidentally tested baby seats in 70mph crashes that they found seat belts to work better than LATCH.
 
#4 ·
boulder_bum said:
So I was all but set to sign on the dotted line and buy a Sienna tomorrow (no joke), but I just discovered something pretty devastating.

Namely, we have three car seats that we currently have all in the back of our Prius. Two are connected to the LATCH anchors, one with a seat belt, and all are connected to tether anchors on the back of the back seat.

The Prius has actually been a pretty good, versatile family car for us!

The Sienna, on the other hand? Two latch anchors in the front seats (okay, fine), one in the back in the middle of two seats (hmm, defeats the purpose of an 8 passenger van a little bit), but I checked tonight and there's also only ONE tether anchor in the back seat! WTF?!?

Did Toyota not realize minivan purchasers are going to have a lot of car seats?!? The back seat of our Prius is better-suited for a young family than the back seat of a Sienna.

With our four kids, we planned on having three car seats in the third row, the infant seat in the second row, then the other two second row seats removed to give us maximum interior space, which would thought would make it easy to maneuver and strap the kids in. Now we're not quite sure what we want to do, and getting an Odyssey instead is a definite possibility. :(

Am I crazy here, or what?
The 2011 Odyssey has latch in all seat positions behind the front row and they advertise this fact when comparing to Sienna.

I'm not sure if I am reading your post correctly, but are you looking for latch in the front row or the 2nd row and 3rd row??

I didn't check the front passenger seat in the 2011 Odyssey, but it is not recommended to put a child under 12 years of age (in Canada anyway) in the front seat, so I'd be surprised to see a latch system in that location. In addition, the airbag would kill the child in the event of an accident.

Assuming you meant the second row, one of the reasons we are leaning towards the Honda is the availability of 3 latch positions in row 2. The row 2 outboard seats can be shifted outboard so you can put 3 car seats side by side and connect with Latch. In our case, we have 2 car seats to install and we have one outboard seat available for an adult (my mother) without having to resort to the rear row. This leaves allot more space for suicases, strollers, etc. when we head out to the lake.

But .... the is a Sienna forum, so I'll get out quickly before someone stones me for talking positively about the new Odyssey. :)
 
#5 ·
Qest T. Silverclaw said:
You're not crazy. I can't imagine why Toyota didn't put LATCH everywhere.

I did read in Consumer Reports a few years ago when they accidentally tested baby seats in 70mph crashes that they found seat belts to work better than LATCH.
I read that too, so I made sure I knew how to correctly install the seat with a seatbelt and didn't use latch except to secure the top buckel on the forward facing carseats.

That said, it still makes no sense why they didn't put them everywhere to me either...
 
#6 ·
Hopeful said:
Qest T. Silverclaw said:
You're not crazy. I can't imagine why Toyota didn't put LATCH everywhere.

I did read in Consumer Reports a few years ago when they accidentally tested baby seats in 70mph crashes that they found seat belts to work better than LATCH.
I read that too, so I made sure I knew how to correctly install the seat with a seatbelt and didn't use latch except to secure the top buckel on the forward facing carseats.

That said, it still makes no sense why they didn't put them everywhere to me either...
Is that the report that falsely failed most car seats because they tested them at a speed that exceeded the specification for the test? Maybe the seatbelt would work better than the latch system (I don't agree), but that would assume that everyone is able to stand on the car seat while locking the seatbelt in and attaching the locking clip all at the same time without introducing slack in the seat belt. I have 2 Britax Marathon car seats and a Graco child bucket seat.

I can tell you that it takes me 3 minutes to properly attach the Britax to our 2008 Sienna "Latch" system and connect the rear tether. And that seat isn't going anywhere unless the eat van seat itself gets ripped form the floor. With the seatbelt system in my sports car, I can tug and lock all I want, but at the end of it al, the Britax is still moving around more than it does when installed in the van.

As to the 70 mph crash - good luck surviving that with a child in a child seat. If you hit something solid at 70 mph (car, tree, ditch culvert along the highway), the van will be coming apart. I don't believe Consumers tested any car seats at that speed.
 
#7 ·
Actually, that's exactly what they did. I went out and bought one of the two seats that actually passed the 70mph test even though I didn't otherwise like it. Safety first, and even if something happens to me, I still want my son to have the best protection possible. My Sienna has the Safety Connect system, so in a 70mph crash, my son would be rescued quickly even though I probably didn't survive.

I imagine that the seatbelt worked better than LATCH because of force limiters in the seatbelt system that allowed more movement of the seat during the extreme 70mph crash. The major job of the seatbelt is to keep the occupant inside the vehicle. In some cases, such as a roof crush a regular 3-point seatbelt is better than a 4- or 5-point racing harness because the person can be folded forward rather than held in place as the roof comes down. Seatbelts often cause injury in extreme crashes which is why many cars have force limiters.

As an aside, I find it amusing that people consider airbags the only important safety feature, when seatbelts, crumple zones, and side intrusion protection are, IMO, far more important.
 
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#8 ·
Well, it's good to know others think similarly about the LATCH placements.

I actually read that seat belts performed better in than lower LATCH anchors in some lab crash tests, but LATCH installs are harder to screw up and won't come loose over time like seat belt installs so I tend to like LATCH better. I wonder how real-world numbers compare against some of the crash tests that had professionally installed, recently tightened seat belt installs.

Anyway, I don't necessarily need LATCH lower anchors in the back seat (3rd row), I just need top tether anchors! My car seats won't install properly without them. The third row of the Sienna doesn't even have the tether anchors, but my Prius does!

Argh! It still gets me worked up. Don't the designers know the Sienna is for families with a lot of kids and potentially a lot of car seats?

All the research I did on minivans and time negotiating prices is all wasted because of some Toyota a**hat's decision to mess up the child seat anchor placements.

I guess we'll have to go with the Honda Odyssey (or a used pre-2011 Sienna) after all. I'm bummed, too, because we didn't like the Odyssey as much but its trim equivalent of the Sienna EXL premium is currently $3,000 more expensive than the Sienna.

Oh, and I'd never put a car seat in the front seat of the minivan: an accidental airbag deployment could maim or kill your child, even though there are mechanisms to prevent such an occurrence. I'm definitely talking about second and third row installs for all car seats.
 
#9 ·
boulder_bum said:
(or a used pre-2011 Sienna) after all.
I had to go googling after I started this thread, to doublecheck your findings. And I am also very surprised that Toyota would actually remove LATCH points and child seat tethers. Especially considering their "swagger wagon" advertising campaign; especially considering how much minivans are aimed at families.

However, if you do go with a 2010 or earlier, I would definitely speak in favour of the 8 passenger model, if you can find it. Very versatile seating, and an extra LATCH point (so I read.)

...art
 
#10 ·
Qest T. Silverclaw said:
Actually, that's exactly what they did. I went out and bought one of the two seats that actually passed the 70mph test even though I didn't otherwise like it. Safety first, and even if something happens to me, I still want my son to have the best protection possible. My Sienna has the Safety Connect system, so in a 70mph crash, my son would be rescued quickly even though I probably didn't survive.

I imagine that the seatbelt worked better than LATCH because of force limiters in the seatbelt system that allowed more movement of the seat during the extreme 70mph crash. The major job of the seatbelt is to keep the occupant inside the vehicle. In some cases, such as a roof crush a regular 3-point seatbelt is better than a 4- or 5-point racing harness because the person can be folded forward rather than held in place as the roof comes down. Seatbelts often cause injury in extreme crashes which is why many cars have force limiters.

As an aside, I find it amusing that people consider airbags the only important safety feature, when seatbelts, crumple zones, and side intrusion protection are, IMO, far more important.
Are you like a accident safety engineer or something?

"a regular 3-point seatbelt is better than a 4- or 5-point racing harness because the person can be folded forward rather than held in place as the roof comes down"

I have a friend who was wearing a lap belt in an accident in the late 70's. The car she was a passenger in T-boned another car and the force of the crash threw her body forward and it got lodged beneath the bottom of the glove box door, where it remained until they were able to cut the car apart. She was paralyzed from the waist down. I'm not sure where you get the idea that a 5 point harness wouldn't be as safe because you can't get out of the way of a crushing roof?? You seem to know something all of the race car drivers in the world don't know as they still haven't figured out that a 5 point harness isn't as safe as a 3 point system that allows the upper body to flail around and get out of the way of stuff.

I think if the government experts wanted our heads and upper body flailing around in a crash to avoid a collapsing room, they would mandate upper body restraints and pre tensioners. Do you think Mercedes Benz developed pre tension systems, and pyrotechnic belt tensioners to tighter the shoulder belt during an accident to account for the stretch in the belt, did so to help get the head down in the event a roof caves in?

Let's face it, the belt is supposed to keep the person in the seat and as close to the seat back as possible in a collision. There are a million scenarios for what will happen in a collision and I don't think a collapsing roof scenario dictates seat belt design that allows people to get out of the way. The engineers don't design the safety equipment that way.

If consumers wants to test a seatbelt vs latch at 70 mp/h, good luck to them. I don't think they have the equipment or the know how to do so and have been found to have done faulty assessments of cars seats in the past. The NHTSA has crash tested cars (you can watch how the seat belts work online) and I'd be following their advice before CR. You can do as you like.

Our province has safety check stations for parents who want to ensure they are connecting their car seats correctly. I took our 2008 Sienna in and asked them to check our installation. They advised using the latch system and the tether at the back of the seat as a first option. The specialist put his knee on the seat to compress the car seat's foam a bit and then tightened the straps. The tether was done without additional compression. He advised us that using the seatbelt can be difficult as you are almost never able to get them done up tight enough while locking the jaw clamp.

And PS, if you want your son to survive a crash, it better not be at 70 mp/h. Seat or no seat, the probability of survival is slim regardless of how you are belted in.
 
#11 ·
Race cars have roll cages to prevent the roof from crushing the occupants.

NHTSA doesn't test anywhere near 70mph. At the speeds NHTSA tests, almost every child seat will pass, so that data does little to help me make my buying decision.

I agree that it's much more bothersome to attach a child seat properly using a seat belt, but any reasonable person can accomplish the task if they follow the directions. If that weren't the case, child seats wouldn't work with seat belts.
 
#13 ·
Qest T. Silverclaw said:
Race cars have roll cages to prevent the roof from crushing the occupants.

NHTSA doesn't test anywhere near 70mph. At the speeds NHTSA tests, almost every child seat will pass, so that data does little to help me make my buying decision.

I agree that it's much more bothersome to attach a child seat properly using a seat belt, but any reasonable person can accomplish the task if they follow the directions. If that weren't the case, child seats wouldn't work with seat belts.
It isn't a question of bothersome. The research has shown that most people don't install car seats properly using the seat belts. I think that must be part of the reason why latch was developed. As I mentioned, the experts we consulted showed how you must kneel on the seat while you try and pull the seat belt strap tight enough to keep the seat foam compressed, while using a locking mechanism on the seat or installing a seat belt locking clip supplied with the car seat. He said, most people are unable to accomplish this properly and even if they were, the tie down system is 2 point (there is no assist from the shoulder belt portion using this method).

As to the roll cage, yes it keeps the roof from collapsing, but I don't think they'd be using a 3 point system if there wasn't a roll cage. The 5 point system keeps the person in position so the rest of the safety features in the car can work. Our vehicles are designed to deform in a predictable way. To suggest that we want to allow the body (child) to move out of the way by flailing around in a crash seems a bit ridiculous to me.

In any event, whether I buy the Sienna or the Odyssey, my kid will get attached to a latch position. CR can say what they want, but teh seatbelt system provides a 2 point attachment, while latch provides 3. the child seat as a 5 point system for the child. Maybe CR would have us reduce that to 3 point as well.

grover


PS,

I've just scoured the CR site as well as goggle'd " CR 70 mp/h child seat tests" and didn't find anything that said latch connection is inferior to seat belt installation. In fact CR has a statement on their website retracting their side impact test that was supposed to simulate a 38 mp/h side impact, but instead mistakenly simulated a 70 mp/h side impact.

The most recent testing doesn't even talk about the merits of seatbelt installation, but rather talks about the convenience of the different types of latch connectors (hook vs clip). they go on to say that all of the car seats tested meet the government requirements and their ratings are directed at comfort, convenience of use and defects that may have shown up during testing (some models showed cracking).

It seems that CR is avoiding the crash testing business - leaving that to the experts (who buy the way mandate a latch system in all new child seats
 
#14 ·
my experience is seat belt install makes the carseat sideway :(

Using seat belt in our cars (toyota) you need to make sure to pull the seatbelt all the way out then release. I would hear a different noise as the seatbelt retrack to confirm the seat belt is in "lock". Of course I need to PUSH as hard as I can to make sure it is secured still I don't like using seatbelt. (also in some GM, Ford (older models from my in-law), the seat belt wouldn't "lock" so the carseat is basically moving around, no way it is safe )

I use the lower anchors + the back seat hook (tether, latch whatever you call it) whenever possible. Since I only have 2 kids and only 1 using carseat (the other use booster seat) so the lack of anchor is not a concern but I can see folks with more kids do need those setup. Odyssey does offer the anchors (not sure about the back seat hook) for all 3 seat in the middle row.
 
#15 ·
grandmama said:
my experience is seat belt install makes the carseat sideway :(

Using seat belt in our cars (toyota) you need to make sure to pull the seatbelt all the way out then release. I would hear a different noise as the seatbelt retrack to confirm the seat belt is in "lock". Of course I need to PUSH as hard as I can to make sure it is secured still I don't like using seatbelt. (also in some GM, Ford (older models from my in-law), the seat belt wouldn't "lock" so the carseat is basically moving around, no way it is safe )

I use the lower anchors + the back seat hook (tether, latch whatever you call it) whenever possible. Since I only have 2 kids and only 1 using carseat (the other use booster seat) so the lack of anchor is not a concern but I can see folks with more kids do need those setup. Odyssey does offer the anchors (not sure about the back seat hook) for all 3 seat in the middle row.
I agree that latch is the way to go. For those who care, the Odyssey has attachment points in 3 positions in the center row and 2 positions in the rear most row.
 
#17 ·
grover432 said:
I agree that latch is the way to go. For those who care, the Odyssey has attachment points in 3 positions in the center row and 2 positions in the rear most row.
I think the Odyssey actually has 3 tethers in the back now, too, as I remember (compared to the Sienna's 1). We may get one later today, so I'll be able to say for sure then.

mmorriso said:
can additional tether anchors be added to the 3rd row?
I've heard of some people installing tether anchors on older cars, but I'm not sure how comfortable I'd be having a critical safety component installed aftermarket. I'd be worried about the strength and physics.
 
#18 ·
Actually,

The Britax Marathon car seat we have comes with a short section of seat belt section (about 6") with a steel end that has a hole in it. If you need a rear tether you do the following: If the seat is forward facing, you can loop the web through itself after wrapping it around the seat attachment point. This is usually a loop in the floor or you can wrap it around the seat leg base. After you do this, you attach the tether clip on the seat through the hole in the steel bracket. If the seat is rear facing, you can attach the short piece around the leg of the seat in front. and then do the same attachment. The Britax site has the instructions. This attachment, if done as directed, it is secure as attaching it to a latch point.

Have you decided on an Odyssey? Which model and why??
 
#19 ·
grover432 said:
The Britax Marathon car seat we have comes with a short section of seat belt section...

Have you decided on an Odyssey? Which model and why??
I guess might be talked out of it, but we're planning on purchasing tomorrow.

We're planning on going with the Odyssey Touring because it's important for us to have the rear entertainment system, backup camera, iPod connectivity, Bluetooth calling, automatic doors, traction control, airbags and leather. It's basically the equivalent of the Sienna 8-passenger XLE Premium we were otherwise eyeing.

There are some other useful features in the Odyssey like a "cool box" which is sort of like an integrated cooler to keep drinks cold, and two-person seat memory, but we'd honestly trade them all for the Sienna's Smart Key System, sliding second row and its extra inch of headroom.

The only real reason we're going with the Odyssey instead of the Sienna is the child seat anchor situation. The Odyssey has 3 tethers in back, two LATCH anchors and it has three LATCH and I think three tethers in front.

We currently have three kids in car seats and one more being born in February. Our plan is to remove one or two of the front seats, then have an open floor to enter and strap kids in. With the Toyota, we'd have to have two car seats in front, one in back (taking up two seats) if we wanted to use the tethers, and we wouldn't have a fourth tether for when our new child grows big enough. We'd also have a situation where the back car seat takes up two spaces, so we'd have limited room to grow.

I'm intrigued by your Britax clove hitch solution, though it doesn't sound ideal. We couldn't fit three Marathons in the back row because Britax doesn't design those seats to sit three to a row (we have Sunshine Kids Radians which are designed specifically for that purpose), but it's a creative solution anyway. My worry would be about the difficulty of finding proper connection points and the forces applied on components that weren't specifically designed for car seat tethering.
 
#20 ·
boulder_bum said:
grover432 said:
The Britax Marathon car seat we have comes with a short section of seat belt section...

Have you decided on an Odyssey? Which model and why??
I guess might be talked out of it, but we're planning on purchasing tomorrow.

We're planning on going with the Odyssey Touring because it's important for us to have the rear entertainment system, backup camera, iPod connectivity, Bluetooth calling, automatic doors, traction control, airbags and leather. It's basically the equivalent of the Sienna 8-passenger XLE Premium we were otherwise eyeing.

There are some other useful features in the Odyssey like a "cool box" which is sort of like an integrated cooler to keep drinks cold, and two-person seat memory, but we'd honestly trade them all for the Sienna's Smart Key System, sliding second row and its extra inch of headroom.

The only real reason we're going with the Odyssey instead of the Sienna is the child seat anchor situation. The Odyssey has 3 tethers in back, two LATCH anchors and it has three LATCH and I think three tethers in front.

We currently have three kids in car seats and one more being born in February. Our plan is to remove one or two of the front seats, then have an open floor to enter and strap kids in. With the Toyota, we'd have to have two car seats in front, one in back (taking up two seats) if we wanted to use the tethers, and we wouldn't have a fourth tether for when our new child grows big enough. We'd also have a situation where the back car seat takes up two spaces, so we'd have limited room to grow.

I'm intrigued by your Britax clove hitch solution, though it doesn't sound ideal. We couldn't fit three Marathons in the back row because Britax doesn't design those seats to sit three to a row (we have Sunshine Kids Radians which are designed specifically for that purpose), but it's a creative solution anyway. My worry would be about the difficulty of finding proper connection points and the forces applied on components that weren't specifically designed for car seat tethering.
You can get all of the features you are listing, with the exception of NAV in the EX-L RES. If you want 4 tether positions, the Odyssey will give you the most flexibility. As to the tether points using the "clove hitch" solution, keep in mind that when you wrap it around the seat leg which is attached to the floor, you are attaching to the strongest point available. This point is connected to the unibody frame and will be the last point to move in a crash. it has to be as safety for all seat passengers depends on the seat itself remaining in place. For example, if the driver's seat were to let go of it's mounting in a crash, the seat belts and air bags would be rendered useless. In fact if the front seats moved forward, the airbags would become a hazard.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how you make out. I'm taking a Touring for an overnight test drive tonight. As to the smart key, I'd trade the cooler box for one as well. I'lll get used to life without it though. :)

ps you will need to move to the Oddy forum, ::)
 
#21 ·
grover432 said:
You can get all of the features you are listing, with the exception of NAV in the EX-L RES. If you want 4 tether positions, the Odyssey will give you the most flexibility. As to the tether points using the "clove hitch" solution, keep in mind that when you wrap it around the seat leg which is attached to the floor, you are attaching to the strongest point available. This point is connected to the unibody frame and will be the last point to move in a crash. it has to be as safety for all seat passengers depends on the seat itself remaining in place. For example, if the driver's seat were to let go of it's mounting in a crash, the seat belts and air bags would be rendered useless. In fact if the front seats moved forward, the airbags would become a hazard.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how you make out. I'm taking a Touring for an overnight test drive tonight. As to the smart key, I'd trade the cooler box for one as well. I'lll get used to life without it though. :)

ps you will need to move to the Oddy forum, ::)
If I went with the Sienna, I think I'd definitely go with the XLE w/Premium Package to get the whole shebang and I got dealers ready to go lower than invoice! It killed me not being able to do that.

EDIT: I just realized you meant that the Honda EX-L Res had all the features I wanted with the exception of NAV. We actually considered that, but you also lose the backup camera and parking sonar which we thought were pretty crucial.

I ended up paying about $2500 more to buy the Odyssey Touring tonight because I just felt more comfortable having anchors at points specifically designed for such a purpose.

So far my initial impressions are that the seats are better in the Odyssey (not only is there a tether on EVERY back seat, but there are five latch anchors, plus the front seats are more adjustable with a two-person memory), and some of the electronics are a bit higher quality if not more functional. The GPS is shaded more by the front panel plus voice directions, turn graphics and speed are a improved over my (2007) Toyota GPS, the DVD system comes with this detachable wireless remote, which is pretty cool, there's a pocket in the glove box to plug an iPhone in via USB, the backup camera(s) have a normal, wide angle, AND bumper down view, and there are a few other handy features, but I'd still have gone with the Sienna if it weren't for the tether anchor thing.

Toyota's advantages are the hugely flexible second row with seats on a big, sliding track, the extra inch of headroom which is very noticeable if you're tall, the dual-view entertainment center instead of the single screen, the Smart Key System, a stowable middle second-row seat, guide lines on the backup camera that curve with the steering wheel instead of remaining straight like the Odyssey, a more out-of-reach RCA input and AC plug (in the Odyssey, it's on the side of the third row where kids could mess with the plugs and whatever is attached to the RCA input) and Toyota's input method for the Heads Up Display is a touch screen instead of a dial like the Odyssey; to enter an address in the Odyssey GPS, you seriously have to turn a dial to get to each and every letter instead of just typing the name like you do on the Sienna touch screen.

Anyway, the Odyssey is growing on my, though Sienna has some very compelling features that I think make it a better value. Pity about the anchors.

They're both worthy minivans, however.

Oh, and I'll begrudgingly start making my way over to the Odyssey forums, I suppose, but thanks for everyone's help!
 
#22 ·
boulder_bum said:
grover432 said:
You can get all of the features you are listing, with the exception of NAV in the EX-L RES. If you want 4 tether positions, the Odyssey will give you the most flexibility. As to the tether points using the "clove hitch" solution, keep in mind that when you wrap it around the seat leg which is attached to the floor, you are attaching to the strongest point available. This point is connected to the unibody frame and will be the last point to move in a crash. it has to be as safety for all seat passengers depends on the seat itself remaining in place. For example, if the driver's seat were to let go of it's mounting in a crash, the seat belts and air bags would be rendered useless. In fact if the front seats moved forward, the airbags would become a hazard.

Good luck with your purchase and let us know how you make out. I'm taking a Touring for an overnight test drive tonight. As to the smart key, I'd trade the cooler box for one as well. I'lll get used to life without it though. :)

ps you will need to move to the Oddy forum, ::)
If I went with the Sienna, I think I'd definitely go with the XLE w/Premium Package to get the whole shebang and I got dealers ready to go lower than invoice! It killed me not being able to do that.

EDIT: I just realized you meant that the Honda EX-L Res had all the features I wanted with the exception of NAV. We actually considered that, but you also lose the backup camera and parking sonar which we thought were pretty crucial.

I ended up paying about $2500 more to buy the Odyssey Touring tonight because I just felt more comfortable having anchors at points specifically designed for such a purpose.

So far my initial impressions are that the seats are better in the Odyssey (not only is there a tether on EVERY back seat, but there are five latch anchors, plus the front seats are more adjustable with a two-person memory), and some of the electronics are a bit higher quality if not more functional. The GPS is shaded more by the front panel plus voice directions, turn graphics and speed are a improved over my (2007) Toyota GPS, the DVD system comes with this detachable wireless remote, which is pretty cool, there's a pocket in the glove box to plug an iPhone in via USB, the backup camera(s) have a normal, wide angle, AND bumper down view, and there are a few other handy features, but I'd still have gone with the Sienna if it weren't for the tether anchor thing.

Toyota's advantages are the hugely flexible second row with seats on a big, sliding track, the extra inch of headroom which is very noticeable if you're tall, the dual-view entertainment center instead of the single screen, the Smart Key System, a stowable middle second-row seat, guide lines on the backup camera that curve with the steering wheel instead of remaining straight like the Odyssey, a more out-of-reach RCA input and AC plug (in the Odyssey, it's on the side of the third row where kids could mess with the plugs and whatever is attached to the RCA input) and Toyota's input method for the Heads Up Display is a touch screen instead of a dial like the Odyssey; to enter an address in the Odyssey GPS, you seriously have to turn a dial to get to each and every letter instead of just typing the name like you do on the Sienna touch screen.

Anyway, the Odyssey is growing on my, though Sienna has some very compelling features that I think make it a better value. Pity about the anchors.

They're both worthy minivans, however.

Oh, and I'll begrudgingly start making my way over to the Odyssey forums, I suppose, but thanks for everyone's help!
Congrats on your purchase. I'm sure you are going to enjoy this van. In Canada, we get the backup camera display in the MID in all models above the EX, although you don't get the 3 angle view (top, wide, normal) that you get on the Touring here. I've logged a fair bit of time test driving the Touring and found it quite easy to manipulate the menu settings using the wheel. A touch screen would be nice, but I think you can also use Honda's excellent voice commands to get an address in. Finally, with respect to NAV, my wife doesn't really want it. We live in a city of 1.25M people and we travel the same routes 98% of the time. She says it is a waste of money, although many people in the same position buy it. It's a cool toy, but I agree that it's use is limited to a few time a year for us. When we do have to use it, a slightly less friendly interface will be fine (for us and probably others).

As to Toyota's second row, I'm not sure the lounge seats add much. Toyota has said that they are not safe for use (in the reclined position) while the vehicle is in motion. While everyone will use them while in motion, they limit back row use and of you child is more than 5'2", their legs will hit the front seat back. They are a great idea for long trips, but the van really needed to be several inches longer to make them usable along with the back row.

I'd also like a smart key option and I'm sure we'll see one next year. Both of us needed vans this year, so we'll buy what is out there. What color did you get? When do you take delivery? Did you add any accessories?

Beside the OddyClub forums, you can also try :http://vtec.net/forums/forum?forum_id=3543

See you over there; enjoy your new van.
 
#24 ·
Just fyi, be careful at the Odyclub forums. They've been getting spammed to death this week, don't click on anything even remotely suspicious... (I'm a recent former owner of a 2000 Ody ;) ). I wish the owner would come back sometime soon and turn the site over to one of the mods or something...
 
#25 ·
boulder_bum said:
Did Toyota not realize minivan purchasers are going to have a lot of car seats?!?
Not ALL of us. :eek:

We were done with car seats and booster seats well over 15 years ago and still choose a minivan as our main vehicle.
Personally, I couldn't care less how many car seat anchors there are in the van. I don't need them and I don't worry
about resale, as I will likely run this van until it quits, like my other vehicles. That's going to be a while, I have had
four Toyota products over the last 30 years that went over 300,000 miles, so we don't buy vehicles very often and
sell them even less often.

.
 
#26 ·
Datsa Noydb said:
boulder_bum said:
Did Toyota not realize minivan purchasers are going to have a lot of car seats?!?
Not ALL of us. :eek:

We were done with car seats and booster seats well over 15 years ago and still choose a minivan as our main vehicle.
Personally, I couldn't care less how many car seat anchors there are in the van. I don't need them and I don't worry
about resale, as I will likely run this van until it quits, like my other vehicles. That's going to be a while, I have had
four Toyota products over the last 30 years that went over 300,000 miles, so we don't buy vehicles very often and
sell them even less often.

.
Families are the primary target of the manufacturer's in the mini van category so a miss on the number of seat anchors is a big deal. The second most important target group is gray hairs like yourself, although many of you are buying Toyota Venzas these days. I'm sure Toyota will fix the oversight.