Carfax is not all that they say . My Cavalier that I am getting ready to sell had body work done two times and nether show up on Carfax . I have a very good mechanic that I take anything I'm thinking about buying to . Also the 06 Sienna I just got had some lite body work done just behind right side door , did not show up on Carfax , but , my mechanic could tell , so I got them to come down $1040 on the price . Used Sienna's in my area sell for book and you have to be fast or it's gone .

 

When a insurance company pays out a claim larger than a certain amount or pays direct to a autobody..it's recorded more likely. However when an private individual takes the insurance cash and fixes his/her car at a later time or not at all, it is often not recorded into the title of the car.

Because you as the insured are paid for your loses, it is your right to repair or leave it like a pile (pos). And since they don't know when or if the work was performed, it would not be recorded. Carfax relies on a car autobody shop's software made by "Mitchell", DMV records and CLUE reports (insurance claims data).

 

How I know... I still moonlight as a inspector/material damage appraiser for aircraft

 

When a insurance company pays out a claim larger than a certain amount or pays direct to a autobody..it's recorded more likely. However when an private individual takes the insurance cash and fixes his/her car at a later time or not at all, it is often not recorded into the title of the car.

Because you as the insured are paid for your loses, it is your right to repair or leave it like a pile (pos). And since they don't know when or if the work was performed, it would not be recorded. Carfax relies on a car autobody shop's software made by "Mitchell", DMV records and CLUE reports (insurance claims data).

Thanks!!
That makes perfectly good sense to me. Had never really thought of it (source/validity of CarFax data) before. 8)

 

I formulated the following opinions after doing some more reading/research into the "pros vs cons" of [CarFax] and other similar vehicle history reports.

Understand that [CarFax] and other similar vehicle history reports are useful "tools", BUT they are not 100% foolproof. Many rely upon VOLUNTARY reporting of data from participating states and organizations. Also, not all accidents are reported or claimed through insurance, and it is possible to "wash" a car's title by routing ownership through several states, some of which do not report or follow the same formats and designations.

You should still perform a thorough test drive and inspection (visual + mechanical). Many mechanics will charge a diagnostic fee (approx 1hr or so) to do this for you, and some may even be "mobile" and will come to wherever the relevant car is located. If a private-person selling a vehicle is unwilling to let you have it inspected by an independent mechanic, I would walk away. If it is a dealership, I would make sure they have a good return policy/warranty in writing....AND still get it inspected. If it is one of those strictly used car lots (unaffiliated with a new car dealership), I would also get it inspected if at all possible.

Here is some more background I recently found (may not all necessarily apply to all US States)....

Is that CARFAX report worth the money? (older newsarticle from 2007, but advice still applies)
http://www.komonews.com/news/consumer/5730906.html

Vehicle histories on the cheap -- latimes.com
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-carfaxbox5-2009sep05,0,3266499.story

American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators
http://www.aamva.org/GovAffairs/IssueWatch/NMVTIS/ConsumerAccess.htm
http://www.aamva.org/aamva/DocumentDisplay.aspx?id={0B544361-3753-4CEF-9943-764A394C8301} (State Vehicle Record Requests)

National Motor Vehicle Title Information System (NMVTIS)
http://nmvtis.gov/

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

 

By the way, read the fine print on the "Buy Back Guarantee" that will show you where the strong feet of CARFAX start to stink a bit. I would know since my daily driver used Altima actually had pretty big front repainting/fixing done in which carfax failed to point out when I bought it used, and I was out of luck since I did not look at the fine print about registering my vehicle to carfax. That front end paint is starting to fade a bit now :-\

 

Do you know of any other source where you can find out if a car has had the odometer tampered with or if a vehicle has had a salvage title or not? I've run into some real sneaky used car dealers and I'm glad I had the Carfax info available to me. It saved a great deal of time. I felt I've always gotten my moneys worth.

if you take apart your dash or look under the hood.. you can see if the VIN# matches on the crtical engine parts and body panels. As far as the odometer, you would have to take apart the dash and take a look and see if wiring or electronics have been disturbed.

 

Try some of the links in Reply #5 up above, and/or do a search on the internet....

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

 

anyone know what it really means to buyer and seller?

Rebuilt title = Salvage Title??
My understanding is that when it cost more for the insurance to pay for the fix, then the car becomes "salvage"

Most of the time, the insurance will pay the owner $X (fair market value) of the wrecked car so he/she can go buy another car. So at that point, who owns that piece of wrecked? Will the insurance company tow it away? Allow the owner keeps it?

Now, for buyer, if they buy car with rebuilt/salvage title, the car should have $0 value to begin with, right? (because insurance already paid for a new ride to the owner). So the so call seller is making a lot even they always list the car lower than anyone else?

Ok, so what about "Theft Title", Repo from CarFax? How does it hurt the value or is it a good buy?

 

My understanding is that when it cost more for the insurance to pay for the fix, then the car becomes "salvage"

Yes, although the original car is not worth fixing it still has some value. That value can be recovered, which is why the term "salvage" is used.

Most of the time, the insurance will pay the owner $X (fair market value) of the wrecked car so he/she can go buy another car. So at that point, who owns that piece of wrecked? Will the insurance company tow it away? Allow the owner keeps it?

The insurance company owns it - the insured vehicle owner is not entitled to a complete replacement and the original car, the replacement payment is... a replacement. Some owners buy the wreck from the insurance company, paying the salvage value, because it has value to them (for parts or complete rebuilding), but that's an additional transaction.

Now, for buyer, if they buy car with rebuilt/salvage title, the car should have $0 value to begin with, right? (because insurance already paid for a new ride to the owner). So the so call seller is making a lot even they always list the car lower than anyone else?

No, it isn't worthless, it has salvage value (for instance, it could be torn down and the remaining good parts sold for a substantial amount). If a $30,000 car is so damaged that the remains are worth $10,000 and it would cost $25,000 to fix, it makes more sense for the insurance company to pay the insured $30,000 (and recover $10,000 of that by selling the damaged car to a wrecker, leaving a net cost to the insurance company of $20,000) than to pay $25,000 to fix the damaged car. Yes, the insurance company has paid $30,000 to the owner, but that doesn't mean someone else is entitled to get the wreck (worth $10,000 as a pile of parts) for nothing! The insurance company must salvage that value for the replace-instead-of-fix decision to make sense.

The seller of a previous salvage-titled vehicle (or the someone who had it before them) must have paid for the damaged vehicle as well as paying for the repair to produce something which they can then sell as a usable vehicle.

The numbers in my example above are, of course, just an example and not realistic values of any particular vehicle.


The significance of a salvage title is that at some point that vehicle was so badly damaged that it was not considered worth fixing, and the title was registered just to establish ownership of the parts and the history of the vehicle. If it is later fixed, either someone spent too much money on it, or (vastly more likely) they did the repair exceptionally cheaply... I would be very suspicious of any vehicle with that history.

 

It may also be difficult to get a "salvage-titled" vehicle re-insured.

Unless you are very desperate for some basic transportation and/or are quite talented at rebuilding/fixing cars and have time to do it, I would STAY AWAY from a "salvage-title". You don't know how extensively it was damaged/stripped, and you don't know the quality of the re-build. I would focus my concerns on the safety and structural integrity as well as general mechanical condition, and less on the gadgets.

Some substantially lower-than-average-mileage cars (nationwide avg mileage per year = 12-15Kmiles) going for less than market value may be "salvage" vehicles. They also tend to be private-party transactions. They generally won't be advertised as such as not all buyers are aware of the potential implications and problems. You should always ask about and see the title.....especially in a private-party transaction.

YMMV.
Good Luck!! 8)

 

It may also be difficult to get a "salvage-titled" vehicle re-insured.

This would vary significantly by jurisdiction (state or province), but I agree. I have heard that here (Alberta) if a vehicle's title carries the corresponding designation, a very extensive inspection is required to even get it licensed again; I found a Salvage Vehicle Inspections page from our provincial government which confirms this. Here, the repaired vehicle would not simply have a "salvage" status, but would be registered as "rebuilt".

I would not be at all surprised if my insurer declined to carry the vehicle.

 

You should always ask about and see the title.....especially in a private-party transaction.

If the repair is done by (or for) the owner at the time of the damage, then it could have a title document which still says nothing is wrong, even though it had been damaged, registered as salvage, and repaired. A search for the title as officially registered - not just a look at the printed document which may be with the vehicle - would be the only way to detect this.

 

It may also be difficult to get a "salvage-titled" vehicle re-insured.

I would not be at all surprised if my insurer declined to carry the vehicle.

I agree. It may even harder to get a loan.

So what about "thief", "repo"? any idea?

 

It may also be difficult to get a "salvage-titled" vehicle re-insured.

I would not be at all surprised if my insurer declined to carry the vehicle.

I agree. It may even harder to get a loan.

So what about "thief", "repo"? any idea?

same....I'd be wary. You just "never know".

If a car has been repo'd, most likely the owner didn't have the funds to properly maintain the vehicle....maybe just bare minimum, if that much.

If a car has been stolen & recovered, it was most likely stripped of easily removable and quickly resellable parts. If it has since been rebuilt, who knows the quality of the work or thoroughness of the replacements. Sure, it could have been recovered with only minimal damage, broken window, punched ignition, stolen stereo, stolen wheels, etc....but how do you know for sure??

Again, unless a buyer is really desperate for a bargain-priced vehicle for basic transportation, or is very handy with cars.....I'd stay away. But that's just me....

 

Here's an interesting article on carfax.

The short of it is that carfax doesn't tell you everything and that their competitor autocheck should also be used if you decided on getting this info. Apparantly, carfax doesn't tell you that a car has frame damage or the like even if it is reported as such when the car is sold at auction.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/news/19086976/detail.html

 

some update on Carfax FACT.

A while ago, I totaled my Avalon which we bought 9 months ago from a Lexus dealer. The car was great, no complaint. One owner, CLEAN carfax. After the accident, while dealing with insurance to determine the value, the report showed a body work ~$1000 (insurance claim).

That's not a big deal non did it has anything to do with the market value. Just want to say that Carfax really not that good. Last week I checked out a Camry SE from Toyota dealer. Car looks great, clean. Again CLEAN 1 owner carfax. After going to service department, record shows "body work", bumper replaced, repaint.... which pretty much mean ACCIDENT (even if it is not a big one).

So carfax can be a starting point and should be use as reference only. (recently, carfax added a feature to show the +/- $ on the car but there isn't any reason why the car is worth more or less so to me that new feature is stupid). I can see some Rental car get -$ while some 4 owners car get a +$, go figure...

 

I used Carfax prior to buying my used 01 Sienna, I mainly wanted to know why a 10 yr old
vehicle had such low mileage(74,700). It listed 2 previous owners, the 1st was a 4yr lease and the
second owner bought the van outright(financed it). Rolling back the odometer is a very serious
offense and for a used car dealer just isn't worth the time and hassle.

Even though I didn't take it to a mechanic before buying it I did buy it at a place where i have
bought from before and they are basically 2 blocks from where I live. They have been in business
at the same location for 25 years. During the 30 day warranty period from the dealer I took it to my
mechanic to get it checked out. I wouldn't advise doing this if you are buying from a private party or
a dealer that you have never dealt with before.

 

I used Carfax prior to buying my used 01 Sienna, I mainly wanted to know why a 10 yr old
vehicle had such low mileage(74,700). It listed 2 previous owners, the 1st was a 4yr lease and the
second owner bought the van outright(financed it).

In this case, I think that the Carfax information is helpful. Someone leasing a vehicle may tend to keep mileage down, if they are charged for excess mileage in the lease agreement.

I bought a Focus which was 3-1/2 years old with only 33,000 km (20,500 miles)... very low, but it had been leased from new for 3 years, and sat on wholesaler/dealer lots for another 1/2 year, apparently because few people want a manual transmission Focus wagon without a sport package. With that history, the low use was more plausible. I didn't get the Carfax report in this case, I just stumbled over some hints about the lease in the owners manual folder.


I certainly would not assume that the Carfax history is complete, any more than I would assume that the Toyota dealership service record for a vehicle is complete, or that a person's credit report is accurate.

 

[h=2]It may also be difficult to get a "salvage-titled" vehicle re-insured.[/h]