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Engine Starts Great Cold or Hot - Long Crank When Warm

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39K views 47 replies 22 participants last post by  bencahill  
#1 ·
I have what for me is a bit of an automotive mystery. My 2010 Sienna Limited 3.5L 2GR-FE V6 engine with 159K miles starts great when the engine is cold (overnight) or hot (< 1 hour). But when the engine is warm (2-4 hours after shutdown), it takes quite a lot of cranking to get it to start.
There seems to be lots of information online regarding starting difficulties when the engine is either hot or cold, but I could not find anything related to problems when the motor is warm. What I am hoping is that one of you have encountered these symptoms before and can say, "Oh, that is the classic symptom of a problem with the [fill in the blank]", or at least give me some ideas on things to check. What I do not want to do is roll into the service department and have them give me a whole bunch of hooey and start replacing things without me having some idea of what is going on here.
Thank you for your help!
 
#5 ·
There is a cold start fuel injector that helps start the engine in the conditions you list as easy to start. It doesn't fire when starting a hot engine. Normally you see problems that are the reverse of yours, where the cold start injector fails. You seem to the have the opposite problem. I would look at the regular injectors and the fuel filter. But first I would put in a bottle of chevron fuel injector cleaner into the gas tank and see if that helps.
 
#6 ·
When you say, "long crank", what does that mean in seconds? A few extra seconds, maybe even stalls then needs to be restarted, if so, see below. Otherwise I don't know.

There is a known problem with this engine during warm starts. The fuel injectors leak out the pressure that is in them. Cold start and the computer expects there to not be any residual pressure in the injectors and compensates. Hot start, the injectors still have pressure. Warm start, the injectors lose their internal pressure but the computer thinks they should still have pressure in them. Fix is to either live with it, or replace all the injectors. I found using Top-Tier gas helps. I assume by keeping the injectors clean.
 
#7 ·
Since this only happens on a warm engine then, I would get a code reader like Torque Pro for android and check the ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor. The engine computer determine how long the injector stay on by reading the engine coolant temperature. On a cold engine the injectors will stay on longer to give it a rich mixture and on a hot engine the injectors are on very briefly to prevent a hot engine from being flooded. Torque Pro is an android app and require a Bluetooth OBDII reader. BTW there are two coolant sensors, one is used by the engine computer and the other is used by the temperature gauge on your dash.
 
#9 ·
Update: I replaced the fuel injectors with set of 6 remanufactured flow matched Toyota injectors, along with the o-rings and the injector vibration insulators. While the van has never run better, I am still experiencing the longer cranking with a warm engine. Where else should I look?
 
#10 ·
How long is that long start, per ckoos above?

What about the cold injector (maybe it's leaking/dripping)? And the suggestion about the engine coolant sensor makes sense, especially if a different one is used by the computer (believe they are pretty cheap).

Often (i.e. I don't know for sure on the sienna) the sensors aren't used until the engine warms up. It could be that a different sensor is going out, and causing a problem in that warm state. If cleaning or replacing the cold injector or coolant sensor don't do it, use a scanner and see what's going on. There's OBDII bluetooth readers and apps for iPhones/iPads too, and Torque Pro sounds familiar though I haven't used them.
 
#11 ·
Well I would say that a long start is 2-3 seconds of cranking, similar to jbmwnc's experience. Only happens when warm. Cold engine or hot engine and its less than 1 second. I just replaced all the injectors and o-rings, so unless I am really unlucky, I do not think that I am losing pressure there. I am not quite sure where the 'cold start injector' is located on my 2010 Sienna (2GR-FE engine) - could Toyota have a different name for it?
I do not have the OBDII readers, but I can hook the van up to the Techstream software and hunt around for the engine coolant temperature reading. If I do have to replace the water temperature sensor, are there any pitfalls I should be aware of (like they snap off, strip threads, require special tools, etc)? Thanks all - your help is truly appreciated.
 
#14 ·
I have what for me is a bit of an automotive mystery. My 2010 Sienna Limited 3.5L 2GR-FE V6 engine with 159K miles starts great when the engine is cold (overnight) or hot (< 1 hour). But when the engine is warm (2-4 hours after shutdown), it takes quite a lot of cranking to get it to start.
There seems to be lots of information online regarding starting difficulties when the engine is either hot or cold, but I could not find anything related to problems when the motor is warm. What I am hoping is that one of you have encountered these symptoms before and can say, "Oh, that is the classic symptom of a problem with the [fill in the blank]", or at least give me some ideas on things to check. What I do not want to do is roll into the service department and have them give me a whole bunch of hooey and start replacing things without me having some idea of what is going on here.
Thank you for your help!
2012 and EXACT same problem! Took to dealer and total waste of time! I explained EXACTLY under the conditions this happens and of course all I got back was "seemed ok"! Of course they suggested a throttle body cleaning which I agreed to and NO improvement. Next tried a couple cycles of fuel injector (Chevron) cleaner. NO improvement. It seems to be getting worse. I know it's a fuel delivery issue, NOT a battery or anything electrical.
Someone else suggested it's the injectors leaking back which sounds very likely and very expensive but I'll look into that. The long crank id emotionally distressing !
 
#25 ·
2012 and EXACT same problem! Took to dealer and total waste of time! I explained EXACTLY under the conditions this happens and of course all I got back was "seemed ok"! Of course they suggested a throttle body cleaning which I agreed to and NO improvement. Next tried a couple cycles of fuel injector (Chevron) cleaner. NO improvement. It seems to be getting worse. I know it's a fuel delivery issue, NOT a battery or anything electrical.
Someone else suggested it's the injectors leaking back which sounds very likely and very expensive but I'll look into that. The long crank id emotionally distressing !
DId you ever figure this? I'm having the same problem with my 2011.
 
#15 ·
I have what for me is a bit of an automotive mystery. My 2010 Sienna Limited 3.5L 2GR-FE V6 engine with 159K miles starts great when the engine is cold (overnight) or hot (< 1 hour). But when the engine is warm (2-4 hours after shutdown), it takes quite a lot of cranking to get it to start.
There seems to be lots of information online regarding starting difficulties when the engine is either hot or cold, but I could not find anything related to problems when the motor is warm. What I am hoping is that one of you have encountered these symptoms before and can say, "Oh, that is the classic symptom of a problem with the [fill in the blank]", or at least give me some ideas on things to check. What I do not want to do is roll into the service department and have them give me a whole bunch of hooey and start replacing things without me having some idea of what is going on here.
Thank you for your help!
Hi again. Wanted to add one more thing that we're both experiencing. If you don't own and know this car like we do, it's tough to explain this problem to a shop simply because many cars have long or longer cranks to start under many different situations.
The Toyota guys simply didn't get it. I explain EXACTLY the conditions they needed to replicate and all I got back after 4 hours in the waiting room watching Jerry Springer was ...." the crank seemed ok to us"......Gee! Thanks for NOTHING!
 
#16 ·
The update from me is that there is no update - the van still has the same long cranks when warm. As someone suggested above, I did replace the water temperature sensor but it had no impact (it was cheap and easy to replace, so what the heck). I did replace all the injectors with remanufactured ones, but this did not seem to solve the problem. Of course, the remanufactured injectors may have the same leak down issue.
I suppose that a real test would be to remove the injectors and fuel rail, pressurize them and watch it over time. But the boss (wife) will raise a fuss if I take the van out of commission for several days to check this out. Not to mention the incredible joy of reattaching the delightful passenger side bolt to the intake plenum.
I guess that the other part of this system is the fuel pump over in the gas tank. Could a faulty fuel pressure regulator lead to these symptoms?
 
#23 ·
The update from me is that there is no update - the van still has the same long cranks when warm. As someone suggested above, I did replace the water temperature sensor but it had no impact (it was cheap and easy to replace, so what the heck). I did replace all the injectors with remanufactured ones, but this did not seem to solve the problem. Of course, the remanufactured injectors may have the same leak down issue.
I suppose that a real test would be to remove the injectors and fuel rail, pressurize them and watch it over time. But the boss (wife) will raise a fuss if I take the van out of commission for several days to check this out. Not to mention the incredible joy of reattaching the delightful passenger side bolt to the intake plenum.
I guess that the other part of this system is the fuel pump over in the gas tank. Could a faulty fuel pressure regulator lead to these symptoms?
I have the exact problem with my 2011 Sienna XLE. I've tried everything you have but it does not seem to improve. Any updates??
 
#18 ·
Yep, I am still having the problem - also seems to be getting a little worse. To date, I have replaced the fuel injectors with a set of 6 remanufactured flow matched Toyota injectors and the coolant temperature sensor. Van runs fine, but still warm start issues. So I bit the bullet and bought the parts to replace the fuel pump. The van has about 170k miles on it, so I figured what the heck, even if this does not address the issue, the pump is a moving part so it could probably be getting a bit 'iffy' at this point. Now I just have to free up some weekend time to install the thing (wife has lots of things on the 'honeydew' list). I will report back once I get it installed.
 
#21 ·
Here is some good news to start the year off right – I believe that replacing the fuel pump assembly has resolved the warm engine long crank problem! I changed out the part(s) in late November and have not had any difficulty starting the van in over a month.

The part I replaced was Toyota P/N 77020-08040 Fuel Pump Assembly, which I bought from Toyota of Puyallup for about $350. It consists of the fuel pump itself, the pressure regulator, the fuel filter, and the fuel gauge/float assembly. I am not sure which one (or more) of these individual parts was the actual root cause of the problem, but I did observe some black, silty stuff oozing out of the filter when I tore apart the old assembly. Coincidentally, it seems that Toyota sells all the pieces (pump, regulator, o-rings, etc.) except for the fuel filter individually, so perhaps if I was a better detective, I could have saved myself some $$. Likewise, I suppose that buying a pump from some non-Toyota entity could also have also been cheaper, but I figured that I did not want to deal with something which might have been less than a ‘perfect’ fit. I also spent about another $100 on new gaskets, clamps, and hoses which you may or may not also want to replace.

As a public service, I thought that I would document my experience replacing this fuel pump assembly on my 2010 Sienna van. But before I start, I need to clarify a few things. First, I am merely some guy who you do not know who does not do this kind of stuff for a living. So, if my story helps you, I am very happy. But you are on your own with regards to the diagnosis of your own issues and making this repair. If you do choose to do it yourself, keep in mind that you will be working under a heavy vehicle playing around with a whole bunch of gasoline and vapors which can burst into flames and flat out kill you. Second, I live and drive this van around a suburban area of Northern California, which is probably one of the easiest environments on a vehicle that you will find – there is no snow, salt, mud, or snakes (a former colleague of mine found a cottonmouth under his car when he was living in Alabama – generally you do not find snakes here, although sometimes I am convinced that I am working with a few at the office). After nearly 10 years, there is not a lick of rust on the van, so my bolts come out with less than Herculean effort and generally do not snap off. Finally, I had planned to take a bunch of photographs to document this, but I have an old phone and the battery died. So instead of pictures painting a thousand words, you will get the thousand words.

Parts I bought that were absolutely necessary (2010 Sienna XLE):
  • 77020-08040 Fuel Pump Assembly
  • 77169-48040 Gasket Fuel Suction
Parts I bought that I probably could have reused the old ones, but I did not want to take a chance:
  • 77144-08010 Retainer Ring
  • 77158-08010 Fuel Pump Assembly Support
  • 77213-08020 Connector Hose
  • 90460-46003 Clamp
  • 90640-42005 Clamp
The retainer ring and fuel pump assembly support are plastic pieces which form the seal to seat the fuel pump into the tank – along with the gasket, it is sort of like a Mason jar arrangement. The retainer is a ring which has little barbs which allow the ring to be screwed on, but prevents it from unscrewing. If you are patient and careful, you can remove this ring without snapping off the barbs. But I was not going to take any chances and got a new one. The clamp and connector hose attach the fuel tank to the fill pipe. This is rubber, so I figured that after nearly 10 years, it was not a bad idea to replace it too. Once I started poking around, it seemed that someone other than myself managed to crush the plastic fuel tank filler hose cover 77661-08020, so I had to replace that too.

I also went to Autozone and picked up their loaner Fuel Pump Replacement Kit 6 Pack. The only thing I needed from this was a spanner wrench which I used to remove and reseal the fuel pump assembly retainer ring. I suppose that you could also buy one of these spanner wrenches yourself if you want to keep it as a souvenir of this automotive adventure.

Preparation

I drove the van around until the low fuel light on the instrument panel was lit and the on-board computer “distance to empty” read 0. Perhaps it is somewhat reassuring that even after this, the fuel tank still had about 3-4 gallons of gasoline left in it (enough to get to a gas station). But in this case, it meant that the tank had an additional 20-25 lbs of liquid sloshing around in there while I was trying to remove it from the van. I backed the van up so that the rear wheels were situated on ramps. I jacked the front end up and put it on jack stands, because you need to get under the middle of the car to remove the charcoal canister protector. I then opened the hood, removed the cover from the fuse and relay block, and removed the circuit opening relay (its position on the block is shown on the inside of the cover). I then started the van until the engine quit – this supposedly depressurizes the fuel system so that gasoline does not spray all over when you disconnect the fuel tubes under the van. Once the engine died, I replaced the relay and the cover. I also disconnected the cable from the negative battery terminal as the last thing I needed was anything to spark with a whole bunch of gasoline around.

Procedure

I then climbed under the van and removed the six bolts which hold on the charcoal canister protector using a 10mm ratchet. With that off, I removed the fuel tank vent hose from the charcoal canister. It looked to be about a 1/2” tube with a squeeze type connector. In the same area, I disconnected the fuel tank main tube which was a hose about 3/8” which attached to a metal pipe with its own squeeze connector. I was a little paranoid about fuel leaking all over the place, so as I removed hoses and pipes, I wrapped plastic bags and twist ties around the loose ends of the hoses and connectors. There are also a couple of wire harness clamps which support a corrugated covered electrical wire for the fuel gauge and pump which need to be removed.

At the rear of the van near the wheel well, I had to remove a diagonal brace which was blocking a bolt for the fuel filler hose cover. These are 14mm bolts. I was then able to remove the three 10mm bolts which used to hold on the fuel filler hose cover before it was smashed. Two of the bolts are easily located, but the third is sort of buried behind the plastic insert wheel well cover. I had to remove the little flap/splash guard to get to it. It attached the fuel filler hose cover to a bracket on the fuel tank inlet pipe. This was probably the trickiest bolt I had to deal with. I then loosened the two clamps on the rubber fuel inlet connector hose and removed it. There was also a 3/8” fuel tube here which connects to the inlet pipe with a squeeze connector. I disconnected it and bagged it.

Then came the fun part – dropping the tank. I opened both rear sliding doors to the van and positioned ratcheting tie down straps around the interior of the van and underneath the fuel tank. I torqued them snug and then went to work. The fuel tank is supported under the van by three metal bands which are connected to the body by 6, 14mm bolts. The straps themselves are connected to the tank by clips which did not need to be removed. I carefully loosened and removed the bolts. The tank dropped about an inch or so, now suspended by the tie down straps. This was actually good, as I was able to release the fuel gauge and pump wire harness from 4 molded hold downs on the top of the tank and not risk breaking the wire itself. I then gingerly lowered the fuel tank to the ground by gradually releasing the tie down straps. By the way, this would have been a whole lot easier to do with a helper, but he was busy fighting to keep the galaxy safe from invading space aliens.:alien:

With the tank down, I carefully moved it out from under the van, taking care not to put any tension on the fuel gauge and pump wire. There are a couple of sealed openings on the top of the fuel tank – the fuel pump is the one where the corrugated electrical wire is attached. Once I could get to it, I removed the electrical connector. These things always seem to get brittle and crack on me, but this one came out intact. There is also a little yellow plastic clip which needs to be slid out to allow the fuel line to be removed. Again, I bagged the end of the fuel line. Now I used the Autozone spanner wrench to remove the plastic retainer ring. The plastic ring has ribs on it which hook into the spanner. I turned it about 1/3 of the way around before the little barbs on it caught on the pump housing top. I then had to carefully squeeze them out of the way to allow me to rotate it another 1/3 of the way before they caught again. I suppose that I could have just snapped them off as I did have a replacement, but I figured that I would just take my time and not take any chances. Eventually, I was able to remove the ring. Once I did, the spring-loaded top of the fuel pump assembly popped out of the opening. I was then able to remove the pump unit from the tank. It does take a little finagling to get the metal rod with the float extracted.

Now I siphoned out the remaining fuel in the tank, storing it in cleaned plastic milk jugs. Just to be a little more fussy, I used a funnel lined with a coffee filter to facilitate filling the containers. As it turns out, it wasn’t a bad idea to have a few gallons of fuel on hand as it enabled me to get to the gas station once I got the whole thing back together.

At this point, I removed the old gasket and cleaned the groove that seats it. I took the new gasket and wiped it in some gasoline to lubricate it a bit. Then I carefully maneuvered the new fuel pump assembly float arm into the tank opening along with the rest of the unit. There is a tab on the fuel pump which fits into a slot on the threaded support to orient the assembly properly. I then fit the new retainer ring over the top of the pump compressing the springs and screwed it on by hand. Once it became too difficult to turn manually, I attached the spanner. I used a torque wrench to get it to 50 ft-lbs. From there I continued turning it until the arrow on the ring was positioned between the two min-max marks on the tank. I then reattached the fuel line and slid in the yellow plastic clip to hold it in place. At this point, I moved the tank back into close proximity to the van and reattached the fuel gauge electrical connector to the pump housing.

With most of the fuel removed from the tank (and relocated into the old milk jugs), it was now much easier to handle. I positioned the tie down straps under the tank and routed them through the interior of the van. I ratcheted up the tank until it was about 2 inches below the bottom of the van. I routed the wire harness back into the molded trough and clips on the top of the tank. Then back to ratcheting up the tank. I was able to get one of the tank straps into position and start a tank bolt. From there, it was quite easy to get the remaining bolts into position and manually screwed in. I ultimately torqued them to 24 ft-lbs.

From here, it was pretty much the reverse of what I did to remove the tank. I slid the new clamps on the ends of the fuel hose and connected it between the tank and the inlet pipe. To make life easier for me, I made sure that the screw barrel of the clamp was positioned where it was easy to reach. I then reconnected the 3/8“ fuel tube. The connector makes a click or pop sound when it is attached, but I gave it a gentle tug just to be sure that it was correctly seated. I then attached the plastic filler hose cover with the three bolts torqued to 45 in-lbs (they are just attaching a plastic shield). I also screwed back in the wheel well splash guard thingie. Finally, I reattached the diagonal brace and torqued the bolts to 21 ft-lbs.

Now back to the front of the tank. I reattached the clamps holding the corrugated covered fuel gage and pump wire. I reconnected the 3/8” fuel line, again listening for a click and giving it a gentle tug. Then I reconnected the ½” vent line to the charcoal canister. Again, click and tug. Finally, I reinstalled the charcoal canister plastic cover with the 6 bolts torqued to 45 in-lbs.

At this point, I poured the gasoline from the milk jugs back into the fuel tank through the filler door. I reattached the cable to the negative terminal on the battery. I then removed the jack stands and started the van. A couple of cranks, and the engine roared to life! I drove off the ramps and headed to the gas station for a fill up.

So, after about 5 weeks, the warm start long crank problem has not reappeared. In addition, the van seems to have better pickup and more power, but that may just be my imagination. In any case, I no longer smell of gasoline, the wife is happy, and it’s a new year. Life is good.
 
#24 ·
Here is some good news to start the year off right – I believe that replacing the fuel pump assembly has resolved the warm engine long crank problem! I changed out the part(s) in late November and have not had any difficulty starting the van in over a month.

The part I replaced was Toyota P/N 77020-08040 Fuel Pump Assembly, which I bought from Toyota of Puyallup for about $350. It consists of the fuel pump itself, the pressure regulator, the fuel filter, and the fuel gauge/float assembly. I am not sure which one (or more) of these individual parts was the actual root cause of the problem, but I did observe some black, silty stuff oozing out of the filter when I tore apart the old assembly. Coincidentally, it seems that Toyota sells all the pieces (pump, regulator, o-rings, etc.) except for the fuel filter individually, so perhaps if I was a better detective, I could have saved myself some $$. Likewise, I suppose that buying a pump from some non-Toyota entity could also have also been cheaper, but I figured that I did not want to deal with something which might have been less than a ‘perfect’ fit. I also spent about another $100 on new gaskets, clamps, and hoses which you may or may not also want to replace.

As a public service, I thought that I would document my experience replacing this fuel pump assembly on my 2010 Sienna van. But before I start, I need to clarify a few things. First, I am merely some guy who you do not know who does not do this kind of stuff for a living. So, if my story helps you, I am very happy. But you are on your own with regards to the diagnosis of your own issues and making this repair. If you do choose to do it yourself, keep in mind that you will be working under a heavy vehicle playing around with a whole bunch of gasoline and vapors which can burst into flames and flat out kill you. Second, I live and drive this van around a suburban area of Northern California, which is probably one of the easiest environments on a vehicle that you will find – there is no snow, salt, mud, or snakes (a former colleague of mine found a cottonmouth under his car when he was living in Alabama – generally you do not find snakes here, although sometimes I am convinced that I am working with a few at the office). After nearly 10 years, there is not a lick of rust on the van, so my bolts come out with less than Herculean effort and generally do not snap off. Finally, I had planned to take a bunch of photographs to document this, but I have an old phone and the battery died. So instead of pictures painting a thousand words, you will get the thousand words.

Parts I bought that were absolutely necessary (2010 Sienna XLE):
  • 77020-08040 Fuel Pump Assembly
  • 77169-48040 Gasket Fuel Suction
Parts I bought that I probably could have reused the old ones, but I did not want to take a chance:
  • 77144-08010 Retainer Ring
  • 77158-08010 Fuel Pump Assembly Support
  • 77213-08020 Connector Hose
  • 90460-46003 Clamp
  • 90640-42005 Clamp
The retainer ring and fuel pump assembly support are plastic pieces which form the seal to seat the fuel pump into the tank – along with the gasket, it is sort of like a Mason jar arrangement. The retainer is a ring which has little barbs which allow the ring to be screwed on, but prevents it from unscrewing. If you are patient and careful, you can remove this ring without snapping off the barbs. But I was not going to take any chances and got a new one. The clamp and connector hose attach the fuel tank to the fill pipe. This is rubber, so I figured that after nearly 10 years, it was not a bad idea to replace it too. Once I started poking around, it seemed that someone other than myself managed to crush the plastic fuel tank filler hose cover 77661-08020, so I had to replace that too.

I also went to Autozone and picked up their loaner Fuel Pump Replacement Kit 6 Pack. The only thing I needed from this was a spanner wrench which I used to remove and reseal the fuel pump assembly retainer ring. I suppose that you could also buy one of these spanner wrenches yourself if you want to keep it as a souvenir of this automotive adventure.

Preparation

I drove the van around until the low fuel light on the instrument panel was lit and the on-board computer “distance to empty” read 0. Perhaps it is somewhat reassuring that even after this, the fuel tank still had about 3-4 gallons of gasoline left in it (enough to get to a gas station). But in this case, it meant that the tank had an additional 20-25 lbs of liquid sloshing around in there while I was trying to remove it from the van. I backed the van up so that the rear wheels were situated on ramps. I jacked the front end up and put it on jack stands, because you need to get under the middle of the car to remove the charcoal canister protector. I then opened the hood, removed the cover from the fuse and relay block, and removed the circuit opening relay (its position on the block is shown on the inside of the cover). I then started the van until the engine quit – this supposedly depressurizes the fuel system so that gasoline does not spray all over when you disconnect the fuel tubes under the van. Once the engine died, I replaced the relay and the cover. I also disconnected the cable from the negative battery terminal as the last thing I needed was anything to spark with a whole bunch of gasoline around.

Procedure

I then climbed under the van and removed the six bolts which hold on the charcoal canister protector using a 10mm ratchet. With that off, I removed the fuel tank vent hose from the charcoal canister. It looked to be about a 1/2” tube with a squeeze type connector. In the same area, I disconnected the fuel tank main tube which was a hose about 3/8” which attached to a metal pipe with its own squeeze connector. I was a little paranoid about fuel leaking all over the place, so as I removed hoses and pipes, I wrapped plastic bags and twist ties around the loose ends of the hoses and connectors. There are also a couple of wire harness clamps which support a corrugated covered electrical wire for the fuel gauge and pump which need to be removed.

At the rear of the van near the wheel well, I had to remove a diagonal brace which was blocking a bolt for the fuel filler hose cover. These are 14mm bolts. I was then able to remove the three 10mm bolts which used to hold on the fuel filler hose cover before it was smashed. Two of the bolts are easily located, but the third is sort of buried behind the plastic insert wheel well cover. I had to remove the little flap/splash guard to get to it. It attached the fuel filler hose cover to a bracket on the fuel tank inlet pipe. This was probably the trickiest bolt I had to deal with. I then loosened the two clamps on the rubber fuel inlet connector hose and removed it. There was also a 3/8” fuel tube here which connects to the inlet pipe with a squeeze connector. I disconnected it and bagged it.

Then came the fun part – dropping the tank. I opened both rear sliding doors to the van and positioned ratcheting tie down straps around the interior of the van and underneath the fuel tank. I torqued them snug and then went to work. The fuel tank is supported under the van by three metal bands which are connected to the body by 6, 14mm bolts. The straps themselves are connected to the tank by clips which did not need to be removed. I carefully loosened and removed the bolts. The tank dropped about an inch or so, now suspended by the tie down straps. This was actually good, as I was able to release the fuel gauge and pump wire harness from 4 molded hold downs on the top of the tank and not risk breaking the wire itself. I then gingerly lowered the fuel tank to the ground by gradually releasing the tie down straps. By the way, this would have been a whole lot easier to do with a helper, but he was busy fighting to keep the galaxy safe from invading space aliens.:alien:

With the tank down, I carefully moved it out from under the van, taking care not to put any tension on the fuel gauge and pump wire. There are a couple of sealed openings on the top of the fuel tank – the fuel pump is the one where the corrugated electrical wire is attached. Once I could get to it, I removed the electrical connector. These things always seem to get brittle and crack on me, but this one came out intact. There is also a little yellow plastic clip which needs to be slid out to allow the fuel line to be removed. Again, I bagged the end of the fuel line. Now I used the Autozone spanner wrench to remove the plastic retainer ring. The plastic ring has ribs on it which hook into the spanner. I turned it about 1/3 of the way around before the little barbs on it caught on the pump housing top. I then had to carefully squeeze them out of the way to allow me to rotate it another 1/3 of the way before they caught again. I suppose that I could have just snapped them off as I did have a replacement, but I figured that I would just take my time and not take any chances. Eventually, I was able to remove the ring. Once I did, the spring-loaded top of the fuel pump assembly popped out of the opening. I was then able to remove the pump unit from the tank. It does take a little finagling to get the metal rod with the float extracted.

Now I siphoned out the remaining fuel in the tank, storing it in cleaned plastic milk jugs. Just to be a little more fussy, I used a funnel lined with a coffee filter to facilitate filling the containers. As it turns out, it wasn’t a bad idea to have a few gallons of fuel on hand as it enabled me to get to the gas station once I got the whole thing back together.

At this point, I removed the old gasket and cleaned the groove that seats it. I took the new gasket and wiped it in some gasoline to lubricate it a bit. Then I carefully maneuvered the new fuel pump assembly float arm into the tank opening along with the rest of the unit. There is a tab on the fuel pump which fits into a slot on the threaded support to orient the assembly properly. I then fit the new retainer ring over the top of the pump compressing the springs and screwed it on by hand. Once it became too difficult to turn manually, I attached the spanner. I used a torque wrench to get it to 50 ft-lbs. From there I continued turning it until the arrow on the ring was positioned between the two min-max marks on the tank. I then reattached the fuel line and slid in the yellow plastic clip to hold it in place. At this point, I moved the tank back into close proximity to the van and reattached the fuel gauge electrical connector to the pump housing.

With most of the fuel removed from the tank (and relocated into the old milk jugs), it was now much easier to handle. I positioned the tie down straps under the tank and routed them through the interior of the van. I ratcheted up the tank until it was about 2 inches below the bottom of the van. I routed the wire harness back into the molded trough and clips on the top of the tank. Then back to ratcheting up the tank. I was able to get one of the tank straps into position and start a tank bolt. From there, it was quite easy to get the remaining bolts into position and manually screwed in. I ultimately torqued them to 24 ft-lbs.

From here, it was pretty much the reverse of what I did to remove the tank. I slid the new clamps on the ends of the fuel hose and connected it between the tank and the inlet pipe. To make life easier for me, I made sure that the screw barrel of the clamp was positioned where it was easy to reach. I then reconnected the 3/8“ fuel tube. The connector makes a click or pop sound when it is attached, but I gave it a gentle tug just to be sure that it was correctly seated. I then attached the plastic filler hose cover with the three bolts torqued to 45 in-lbs (they are just attaching a plastic shield). I also screwed back in the wheel well splash guard thingie. Finally, I reattached the diagonal brace and torqued the bolts to 21 ft-lbs.

Now back to the front of the tank. I reattached the clamps holding the corrugated covered fuel gage and pump wire. I reconnected the 3/8” fuel line, again listening for a click and giving it a gentle tug. Then I reconnected the ½” vent line to the charcoal canister. Again, click and tug. Finally, I reinstalled the charcoal canister plastic cover with the 6 bolts torqued to 45 in-lbs.

At this point, I poured the gasoline from the milk jugs back into the fuel tank through the filler door. I reattached the cable to the negative terminal on the battery. I then removed the jack stands and started the van. A couple of cranks, and the engine roared to life! I drove off the ramps and headed to the gas station for a fill up.

So, after about 5 weeks, the warm start long crank problem has not reappeared. In addition, the van seems to have better pickup and more power, but that may just be my imagination. In any case, I no longer smell of gasoline, the wife is happy, and it’s a new year. Life is good.
I have the same problem and am about to replace the fuel pump like you have. Before I do, i just wanted to check in with you to see if you still do not have the long crank problem since replacing the fuel pump?
 
#27 ·
Let me also give a quick shout-out to user joyfullservice who posted his experiences solving a long term fuel trim problem on a 2008 LE by replacing the fuel pump. His description of the fuel pump replacement process, including annotated photographs, was extremely helpful for me. The entire discussion string is an excellent reference: Consistently high long-term fuel trim (both banks)
 
#31 ·
My 2015 Sienna is doing the exact same thing.
I was told by a mechanic it may not be fuel pump.
He told me to do this:
1. Turn the car to on (do not fire up the engine), wait 15s; 2. Turn it off, and turn it to on again, wait 15s; 3. Turn it off, and fire the engine up.
If doing so, it did not show long crank, it means fuel pump is problematic because turning it to on twice appears to give some fuel to the engine.

Maybe I need a full tune-up?
 
#32 ·
FYI, this does nothing on the 2GR-FE in the Sienna, as it does not prime the fuel pump in the ON position as many cars do. (at least this is true for the 2007-2010; I assume it is true for the 3rd gen as well)

Much more info on how the fuel pump works in this video:


I have the same long crank when warm. Almost every instance online I can find of the issue with a 2GR-FE ends up being the fuel pump, so I am guessing that is the culprit in my case. I did test my fuel pressure and it is 50psi so very close to spec. I want to confirm before replacing the fuel pump. Mine has been doing this for a couple of years, and not getting worse, so I am just keeping an eye on it.
 
#33 · (Edited)
2011 Sienna 196k. Exact same long start with warm engine in summertime/ hot weather. To clarify though, once the van starts it has no problems getting fuel. Last year it killed my starter, which I replaced. The one person who claims replacing the fuel pump fixed the issue said they did the work in November. I live in Nebraska and November around here is much colder than July so I don't get the warm engine issue come November, or any of the colder months. Has anybody else replaced their fuel pump and had it fixed this issue in hot weather? I've taken my vehicle to two mechanics and like everyone else states the mechanics really didn't seem to know the issue. My worry is I'm just going to kill the starter again which was a bit of a pain leaving me stranded.
 
#38 · (Edited)
Changed out the fuel pump assembly, gasket, and retainer ring, total parts from Toyota dealership cost $614, they gave me a 20% discount 👍( part #s 77020-08050, 77169-48040, 77144-08010). Had work done on 7/26/23, and it seems to have noticeably helped, no long starts. Mechanic I used, not dealership, charged me only for 3 hours of labor. Course not all mechanics will let you bring your own parts, but luckily mine does and I like the Toyota OEM parts. ( Note: fuel filter is part of the fuel pump assembly I bought, I didn't realize that till comments below shared that- so thanks to bencahill and sixto, see below 👍) I'll provide future updates, good or bad in about another month. On that note, shout out to Samuelso for what seems like the cure.
Preview of gallery image.
 
#39 ·
Changed out the fuel pump assembly, gasket, and retainer ring, total parts from Toyota dealership cost $614, they gave me a 20% discount 👍( part #s 77020-08050, 77169-48040, 77144-08010). Had work done on 7/26/23, and it seems to have noticeably helped, no long starts. Mechanic I used, not dealership, charged me only for 3 hours of labor. Course not all mechanics will let you bring your own parts, but luckily mine does and I like the Toyota OEM parts. I didn't have the fuel filter changed as the mechanic said that would be 3.5 hours labor on top of the 3 hours already to change the fuel pump assembly. He said if I still had problems we could do that next. As of today I'm not planning on having that done. I'll provide future updates, good or bad in about another month. On that note, shout out to Samuelso for what seems like the cure.
Glad to hear that it appears to be fixed. It sound like you are happy with your mechanic, but it's odd that he told you it would be extra labor for the fuel filter, since the fuel filter is part of the fuel pump assembly you purchased, and thus is already changed. Maybe he was confused.
 
#42 · (Edited)
Good point I just looked it up and it looks like you are correct the fuel filter is part of that assembly. Got to wonder what the heck he was talking about 3.5 hours to have the fuel filter replaced. I just called the mechanic he looked it up again and said he had no idea what the system was talking about, but he again found it on his computer for my year of Sienna 2011. He stated it was probably a system error. So apparently my mechanic isn't all that awesome . But then again it's hard to find a good one. Well at least he didn't charge me for the fictional work. 🤣 Well that's just one more bonus of learning how it all works. Thanks for the help.
 
#43 ·
Thanks to everyone who has posted here! It is really helpful to know which rabbit trails not to go down on this issue. As a follow up, I posted back in 2019 with 135K miles. Long start only on a warm engine. We've got about 171K miles now and the issue is pretty much the same. Maybe a little worse? By worse I mean, it still happens in the same conditions, but the start is about 1 second longer now. Haven't had any other issues (no bad starter or anything like that).

Now that I can see from your experiences that the fuel pump is the problem, I'll keep that in my back pocket. This is our family's #2 vehicle now and I've put in some money and work on a lot on the front end over the last couple years. I figure if I can get 4 or 5 more years out of this with the same condition, I'll call that a win. If it gets worse or see other related symptoms, I'll go straight to the fuel pump.
 
#44 ·
Well it's September and over one month since changing the fuel pump. It has been above 80, 90 and also above 100 degrees quite a few times but no more long starts. A surprise bonus is I have more power/ speed when I drive. Apparently my fuel pump was reducing fuel as I drove. I always thought it was just an aging transmission that was slowing me down, but apparently I was really wrong on that. Well for my scenario case closed, well worth the cost and safety as far as being able to hit the gas and getting that extra speed, as well as not worrying about my starter wearing out. Plus it can just be embarrassing sitting there having a long crank, I definitely got my fair share of stares. 🙄 People worried I was going to take away my kids friends in the van, but not return as my van might die.