Has anybody had any issues or thoughts on the 4-cylinder hybrid being underpowered?
Hybrid 4-cylinder Power?
kamaldiprai
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Do you have any updates on when you might get your van back from the shop?
Just checked today. There was a slight hiccup with State Farm initially not wanting to replace the fan assembly ($3000 part) saying it didn't look damaged. Adjuster sent new pictures showing it's very definitely damaged.
All parts are on order. Adjuster is supposed to call me back today with an ETA.
Latest update is parts should start arriving in the next few days and hopefully be all in early next week.
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Things are moving in the right direction
.
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I found it to be funny that from time to time that this satire video would be posted and taken for real.
no sienna 3.5 from gen 3 is slower than gen 4. 0-60 was close in 2011. But passing power every 3.5 is faster.
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it’s not the 0.5 to a full second 0-60 matters
it’s utterly lack of passing power at 30-50 50-70 that makes the current gen sienna dangerous at climbing the grapevine at I5.
if power wasn’t an issue, Gen 4 twin Alphard and vellifire wouldn’t be getting prime powertrain this year.
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Dangerous? Now you're just being silly.
Facts from the same source: 2018 gen3 (Left), 2021 Gen 4 (right)
From C/D Oct 2020 issue 2021 Sienna POWERTRAIN
"DOHC 16-valve Atkinson-cycle 2.5-liter inline-4, 189 hp, 176 lb-ft + 3 permanent-magnet synchronous AC motors, front: 180 hp, 199 lb-ft; rear: 54 hp, 89 lb-ft (combined output, 245 hp); 1.9-kWh nickel-metal-hydride battery pack"
if my AWD math is correct from this is
189 hp gas + 180 hp front + 54 hp Rear = 423 HP total
Hard to believe that number.
Sumthun doesn't add up, Toyota window stickers and/or public data confusing or not explained,
how the "combined output" of 245 HP is derived, and what limits the published rating.
Sorry more questions than answers.
John Kelly's Youtube training videos at Weber State U on 610/710/810 Toyota transaxle operations states 80 HP from MG2, which would yield 269 HP. To get a combined output of 245 HP, means the 2.5L would be 165 HP (165+80= 245). Is the 80 or 180 HP rating of MG2 in error? MG1 is not used for driving wheels, but for controlling the eCVT and starting the gas engine. John explains 9 modes of operation. The mix of HP and torque multiplied thru the hybrid planetary gear input shafts is somehow reduced from the max HP from each source.
After have driven both a Gen4 AWD and FWD, the AWD does have a bit more acceleration from a dead stop with more torque from 2 electric motors. It can squawk the tires. The other design compromise is the limiting output of the single 1.9 KWh battery. The battery state is continually monitored and would provide less assistance from both electric motors when it is low. Also how long the electric motors could deliver max output without overheating. As complex compromise it is, its fun to drive either the FWD or AWD, and gives a range of 600 miles on a fill.
About the only thing I miss in the gas Pacy is the Sto&Go. In the Chrysler Plug-In version the center fold flat seats are eliminated because of the hybrid battery, so neither Toyota or Chrysler hybrids have fold flat center seats. Extra battery weight would reduce cargo and towing rating. With a hybrid, one would think a person would be looking at MPG rating more than how much a hybrid could pull, strain on the drain, like in the F150 EV.
"DOHC 16-valve Atkinson-cycle 2.5-liter inline-4, 189 hp, 176 lb-ft + 3 permanent-magnet synchronous AC motors, front: 180 hp, 199 lb-ft; rear: 54 hp, 89 lb-ft (combined output, 245 hp); 1.9-kWh nickel-metal-hydride battery pack"
if my AWD math is correct from this is
189 hp gas + 180 hp front + 54 hp Rear = 423 HP total
Hard to believe that number.
Sumthun doesn't add up, Toyota window stickers and/or public data confusing or not explained,
how the "combined output" of 245 HP is derived, and what limits the published rating.
Sorry more questions than answers.
John Kelly's Youtube training videos at Weber State U on 610/710/810 Toyota transaxle operations states 80 HP from MG2, which would yield 269 HP. To get a combined output of 245 HP, means the 2.5L would be 165 HP (165+80= 245). Is the 80 or 180 HP rating of MG2 in error? MG1 is not used for driving wheels, but for controlling the eCVT and starting the gas engine. John explains 9 modes of operation. The mix of HP and torque multiplied thru the hybrid planetary gear input shafts is somehow reduced from the max HP from each source.
After have driven both a Gen4 AWD and FWD, the AWD does have a bit more acceleration from a dead stop with more torque from 2 electric motors. It can squawk the tires. The other design compromise is the limiting output of the single 1.9 KWh battery. The battery state is continually monitored and would provide less assistance from both electric motors when it is low. Also how long the electric motors could deliver max output without overheating. As complex compromise it is, its fun to drive either the FWD or AWD, and gives a range of 600 miles on a fill.
About the only thing I miss in the gas Pacy is the Sto&Go. In the Chrysler Plug-In version the center fold flat seats are eliminated because of the hybrid battery, so neither Toyota or Chrysler hybrids have fold flat center seats. Extra battery weight would reduce cargo and towing rating. With a hybrid, one would think a person would be looking at MPG rating more than how much a hybrid could pull, strain on the drain, like in the F150 EV.
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These things do not add up because they don't
.The gas engine is 186 hp and it generates its own power by converting electrochemical energy (stored in the fuel and oxidizer) into thermal energy into mechanical energy.
The electric motors do not generate their own power; they only convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. The power generation occurs in the battery that converts electrochemical energy into electrical energy. This way the electric traction motors can send only as much power to the wheels as they get from the battery and the motor-generator.
I think the battery can push only about 45 kW or less than 60 hp. The way the transaxle works is that the gas engine power is "split" between the direct mechanical link to the wheels and the motor-generator that feeds the traction motor .... so ultimately there are two sources of power, the engine and the battery, 186 hp + 59 hp = 245 hp peak.
Prof. Kelly explains the process in more detail and with more specific knowledge, so I'll shut up here
.What was the quip to sum up situations like this, "Don't let your pesky facts spoil my story".
From what I can tell, probably 80% of Gen4 owners consider the power adequate for the typical tasks a minivan is expected to do. The rest of the vote would probably be split evenly between the "plenty of power" and "not enough power" opinions.
In other words, there is a numerically small, but outspoken cohort of Gen4 owners, who feel that the van does not meet their horsepower expectations (regardless of what the test results may say).
Agreed, its all an engineering marvel of compromises. Prof Kelly does an amazing job of explaining how its accomplished from the comfort of his wheelchair. The efficiency of the 4 cly coupled to electric motors. From my experience so far with 54k miles of town and freeway driving, it has been trouble free.These things do not add up because they don't
The gas engine is 186 hp and it generates its own power by converting electrochemical energy (stored in the fuel and oxidizer) into thermal energy into mechanical energy.
The electric motors do not generate their own power; they only convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. The power generation occurs in the battery that converts electrochemical energy into electrical energy. This way the electric traction motors can send only as much power to the wheels as they get from the battery and the motor-generator.
I think the battery can push only about 45 kW or less than 60 hp. The way the transaxle works is that the gas engine power is "split" between the direct mechanical link to the wheels and the motor-generator that feeds the traction motor .... so ultimately there are two sources of power, the engine and the battery, 186 hp + 59 hp = 245 hp peak.
Prof. Kelly explains the process in more detail and with more specific knowledge, so I'll shut up here
What was the quip to sum up situations like this, "Don't let your pesky facts spoil my story".
From what I can tell, probably 80% of Gen4 owners consider the power adequate for the typical tasks a minivan is expected to do. The rest of the vote would probably be split evenly between the "plenty of power" and "not enough power" opinions.
In other words, there is a numerically small, but outspoken cohort of Gen4 owners, who feel that the van does not meet their horsepower expectations (regardless of what the test results may say).
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You must be driving a different van than I am, or instead should take yours in for service to repair whatever is wrong with it lol
I have never had a problem with passing power starting at any speed. Even above 70. The engine will whine, but the power is there if you push the pedal to the floor. If yours lacks this instantaneous power, There may be an issue with your HVB or MG2.
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Neither have I, but that's because you and I probably stick to the speed limit.
But if you decided to climb a long mountain road @6% grade while trying to outpace a bunch of 95 mph tech bros in their 400 hp Teslas and 800 hp Rivians .... that's the picture I got from KKream
As I've said to people posting "Does it have enough power", It's a mini-van, not a Maserati. It is not going to compete with those types of cars. I also drive a 1989 Chevrolet S10 4 cylinder. It lacks passing power. The Sienna does not.Neither have I, but that's because you and I probably stick to the speed limit.
But if you decided to climb a long mountain road @6% grade while trying to outpace a bunch of 95 mph tech bros in their 400 hp Teslas and 800 hp Rivians .... that's the picture I got from KKream
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1. I had every single generation of sienna since 1998, and 5 sienna in total. So to all you newbies- I know what I am talking about.
2. None of you have pleasure of trying to make the grapevine climb on monthly basis into LA with full 7 passenger load and deal with super slow semi climbing and trying to merge in and out with tons of EV.
The passing power of current sienna is dead last in the group and a whole full second slower than my old 2017 limited with dual VVTi 3.5.
I haven’t been happier after swapping to carnival sx prestige despite issues with 12V. Because it always have enough power for me to merge into left lanes while passing semi on grapevine.
This is a van- not some status symbol. It simply lacks power for passing at incline. On top of that- the engine is just unrefined mess for a $60k van. Last I checked minivan sole purpose is to haul people and weight. Not gas saving.
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Why don’t you go google how much slower gen 4 is on passing time vs the outgoing gen 7 refresh?These things do not add up because they don't
The gas engine is 186 hp and it generates its own power by converting electrochemical energy (stored in the fuel and oxidizer) into thermal energy into mechanical energy.
The electric motors do not generate their own power; they only convert electrical energy into mechanical energy. The power generation occurs in the battery that converts electrochemical energy into electrical energy. This way the electric traction motors can send only as much power to the wheels as they get from the battery and the motor-generator.
I think the battery can push only about 45 kW or less than 60 hp. The way the transaxle works is that the gas engine power is "split" between the direct mechanical link to the wheels and the motor-generator that feeds the traction motor .... so ultimately there are two sources of power, the engine and the battery, 186 hp + 59 hp = 245 hp peak.
Prof. Kelly explains the process in more detail and with more specific knowledge, so I'll shut up here
What was the quip to sum up situations like this, "Don't let your pesky facts spoil my story".
From what I can tell, probably 80% of Gen4 owners consider the power adequate for the typical tasks a minivan is expected to do. The rest of the vote would probably be split evenly between the "plenty of power" and "not enough power" opinions.
In other words, there is a numerically small, but outspoken cohort of Gen4 owners, who feel that the van does not meet their horsepower expectations (regardless of what the test results may say).
heck- my family still have both. Why don’t you fly out to Bay Area and let me show you what I am talking about?
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Again why lie?
Our 2021 Toyota Sienna Departs on a High Note
A hybrid Toyota minivan might sound like boredom, but during our 40,000 miles with the Sienna, we fell in love.
www.caranddriver.com
link to 2021 sienna 40k long term
0-60 is whopping 9 seconds flat
30-50 is a full 1.5 second slower
50-70 is 0.9 second slower.
Even with the full mechanical AWD the 2018 is still significantly faster
30-50 1.2 second faster
50-70 is 0.4
sorry to hurt your feelings.
Remember this is van to haul people- and for my use case- I need a good passing power going into LA for that stupid climb on I5.
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In case for those wondering how did carnival perform.
It’s much better than Gen 4 sienna and match Gen 3 AWD and just slightly worse than Gen FWD.
Gen 3 with updated dual vvti 3.5 and 8 speed was the first time in all my sienna I felt safe and plenty of power for grapevine climb.
![Image]()
It’s much better than Gen 4 sienna and match Gen 3 AWD and just slightly worse than Gen FWD.
Gen 3 with updated dual vvti 3.5 and 8 speed was the first time in all my sienna I felt safe and plenty of power for grapevine climb.
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