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OK, we have to take a few steps backwards... I don't mean to be critical, but I have to say two things before addressing your issue. First, STOP clearing the codes! If the problem is fixed, the light will go out on its own. THEN you can clear the codes. All code-clearing does is cause problems for the next guy who works on the car. Next, DIAGNOSE the problem before throwing any more parts at it! At this point, you've thrown so much at it that you may have actually created new problems that manifest like the old problems.

Now, on to you actual issue... P0420/P0430 happen for 2 reasons. The sensors that detect the levels of oxygen in your post-cat exhaust are bad OR your engine is having incomplete combustion causing the post-cat O2 sensors to detect an actual issue. Your engine could be running lean or rich. Either can cause incomplete combustion. Now, the key indicators are that both cats are showing issues (indicating an engine/combustion issue) AND you say there are random misfires occurring. I'd like to know some history. Were you getting these codes and then you started on this parts cannon journey or were the random misfires first and then you got these codes? How is your gas mileage? Does the engine run smoothly? Did you have any work done (i.e. timing belt) done within a few months before this issue popped up?

As for possible sources of the issue, the best approach is to step back and look at the problem from a distance. The problem IS incomplete combustion. So, the 3 things that can cause incomplete combustion are fuel, air and spark. You haven't said your mileage, but, have you had all the recommended service (timing belt, spark plugs, etc.) done at recommended intervals? For fuel trims, you should get 4 numbers for bank 1 short term, bank 1 long term, bank 2 short term and bank 2 long term. The long term numbers are what matters most. Those should be as close to zero as possible, but something like +/- 6 is probably ok. You also want to check the O2 values, which should be 2 different numbers. Bank 1 Sensor 2 and Bank 2 Sensor 2. I've also seen something like "Front-Downstream," depending on the software. You want to capture these on a graph. They should bounce between 0.1 and 0.9 volts. However, these values only really matter AFTER the car is warmed up.

Given that you replaced a bunch of stuff and didn't fix the issue, I'm going to hope that those parts are now all OK and pick from what's left. The answers to my questions above will change what might or might not be the issue. I would check the fuel pressure. If your pressure is too low or too high, that would indicate a fuel pump issue. Next up would be that I would search for vacuum leaks. To be thorough, you need a smoke tester, but a visual inspection of all lines and the starter fluid test around any potential leaks (i.e. throttle body, valve cover, etc.) would probably be a decent start. Since your in diagnostic mode, I would ALSO check the battery level, alternator output, and that all connections are clean and tight and jiggling hot or ground cable doesn't cause misfires. After that, I would consider the spark plugs, especially if your fuel trims are close to zero. If you've got 80k miles since the last plug change or used something other than the super-expensive iridium Denso or NGK plugs, that would probably be the suspect component for me. A dirty throttle body, or leaking TB gasket, valve cover gasket or intake manifold leak could also come in here, and should all be done at the same time as a spark plug change, so you might as well do all at the same time. Now, after that, there are some other misc suspect elements. A heavily clogged PCV could cause issues, but usually would manifest with a rotten-egg smell when under load (i.e. going uphill) at highway speeds. A worn timing belt or one that has advanced or retarded by "slipping a tooth" could cause combustion issues. A blown head gasket could (unlikely) cause issues with water vapor in the exhaust, so monitored, stable coolant levels and checking the oil condition to make sure it hasn't turned to engine butter would be good checks. Checking the coolant for exhaust gasses could also be in order here too. If all of that checks out or can be eliminated, we get into the far less likely but possible territory like a number of micro-issues adding up to a large issue or a part that essentially never fails failing or some weird assumed unrelated issue (i.e. transmission issues) that was overlooked because it was assumed to not be the issue.
 

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2005 toyota sienna xle 3.3l
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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
OK, we have to take a few steps backwards... I don't mean to be critical, but I have to say two things before addressing your issue. First, STOP clearing the codes! If the problem is fixed, the light will go out on its own. THEN you can clear the codes. All code-clearing does is cause problems for the next guy who works on the car. Next, DIAGNOSE the problem before throwing any more parts at it! At this point, you've thrown so much at it that you may have actually created new problems that manifest like the old problems.

Now, on to you actual issue... P0420/P0430 happen for 2 reasons. The sensors that detect the levels of oxygen in your post-cat exhaust are bad OR your engine is having incomplete combustion causing the post-cat O2 sensors to detect an actual issue. Your engine could be running lean or rich. Either can cause incomplete combustion. Now, the key indicators are that both cats are showing issues (indicating an engine/combustion issue) AND you say there are random misfires occurring. I'd like to know some history. Were you getting these codes and then you started on this parts cannon journey or were the random misfires first and then you got these codes? How is your gas mileage? Does the engine run smoothly? Did you have any work done (i.e. timing belt) done within a few months before this issue popped up?

As for possible sources of the issue, the best approach is to step back and look at the problem from a distance. The problem IS incomplete combustion. So, the 3 things that can cause incomplete combustion are fuel, air and spark. You haven't said your mileage, but, have you had all the recommended service (timing belt, spark plugs, etc.) done at recommended intervals? For fuel trims, you should get 4 numbers for bank 1 short term, bank 1 long term, bank 2 short term and bank 2 long term. The long term numbers are what matters most. Those should be as close to zero as possible, but something like +/- 6 is probably ok. You also want to check the O2 values, which should be 2 different numbers. Bank 1 Sensor 2 and Bank 2 Sensor 2. I've also seen something like "Front-Downstream," depending on the software. You want to capture these on a graph. They should bounce between 0.1 and 0.9 volts. However, these values only really matter AFTER the car is warmed up.

Given that you replaced a bunch of stuff and didn't fix the issue, I'm going to hope that those parts are now all OK and pick from what's left. The answers to my questions above will change what might or might not be the issue. I would check the fuel pressure. If your pressure is too low or too high, that would indicate a fuel pump issue. Next up would be that I would search for vacuum leaks. To be thorough, you need a smoke tester, but a visual inspection of all lines and the starter fluid test around any potential leaks (i.e. throttle body, valve cover, etc.) would probably be a decent start. Since your in diagnostic mode, I would ALSO check the battery level, alternator output, and that all connections are clean and tight and jiggling hot or ground cable doesn't cause misfires. After that, I would consider the spark plugs, especially if your fuel trims are close to zero. If you've got 80k miles since the last plug change or used something other than the super-expensive iridium Denso or NGK plugs, that would probably be the suspect component for me. A dirty throttle body, or leaking TB gasket, valve cover gasket or intake manifold leak could also come in here, and should all be done at the same time as a spark plug change, so you might as well do all at the same time. Now, after that, there are some other misc suspect elements. A heavily clogged PCV could cause issues, but usually would manifest with a rotten-egg smell when under load (i.e. going uphill) at highway speeds. A worn timing belt or one that has advanced or retarded by "slipping a tooth" could cause combustion issues. A blown head gasket could (unlikely) cause issues with water vapor in the exhaust, so monitored, stable coolant levels and checking the oil condition to make sure it hasn't turned to engine butter would be good checks. Checking the coolant for exhaust gasses could also be in order here too. If all of that checks out or can be eliminated, we get into the far less likely but possible territory like a number of micro-issues adding up to a large issue or a part that essentially never fails failing or some weird assumed unrelated issue (i.e. transmission issues) that was overlooked because it was assumed to not be the issue.



ok lets start. bought this van in may 2022. had it for about 2 days and the check engine light came on with both codes. i started throwing parts at it since with zero luck. i havent checked gas mileage but goes through gas quicker than i feel it should.engine seems to hesitate and double over while accelerating. I stumbled on the misfire after changing o2 sencors. check engine light started flashing. said # 2 misfire. i checked spark plug on # 2 and swapped #2 coil and #6 coil to see if that would make it change to #6 but it did not. i hooked up my scanner and did a live data test and i seen the misfires are on all cylinders. I just checked the timing belt and it is cracked all over on the smooth side. i started to disasemble to change. so i will not be able to run anymore tests until i get the timming belt done. i will be sure to double check my timing marks before removing old belt and recheck them after new belt is installed.
 

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ok lets start. bought this van in may 2022. had it for about 2 days and the check engine light came on with both codes. i started throwing parts at it since with zero luck. i havent checked gas mileage but goes through gas quicker than i feel it should.engine seems to hesitate and double over while accelerating. I stumbled on the misfire after changing o2 sencors. check engine light started flashing. said # 2 misfire. i checked spark plug on # 2 and swapped #2 coil and #6 coil to see if that would make it change to #6 but it did not. i hooked up my scanner and did a live data test and i seen the misfires are on all cylinders. I just checked the timing belt and it is cracked all over on the smooth side. i started to disasemble to change. so i will not be able to run anymore tests until i get the timming belt done. i will be sure to double check my timing marks before removing old belt and recheck them after new belt is installed.
ok misfire on all cylinders you are looking at bad spark plugs or bad injectors. How old are the plugs ??
 

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news flash. Rockauto sells Denso parts and OEM at discounted prices.
Yes I know that you can get some Denso parts from them.....Rockauto does not sell OEM catalytic converters though. Last I checked when this happened to me 10 years ago, they sold Walker Catalytic Converters for $100 that will prob last 2 years. As I said there is no discount on Palladium. Good thing I kept my OEM catalytic converter and welded the hole. Hasn't seen a P0430 code since. My OEM catalytic converter is 20 years old and works fine.

Also what are shipping rates these days? I just paid $50 in shipping alone for a Prius C tailight that I ordered online. Sometimes the dealer is actually cheaper. I'm not going to tell him to go sort through counterfeit/unverified parts online which might waste his time in the long run.

And oh yea I did try the Bosch AutoZone O2 sensors before I knew any better...and yes they were garbage and wasted my time. I verified that the cat was fine using an IR thermometer. Threw those away and got the proper Denso brand. Then welded my cat and sealed all of the gasket leaks. Then did an Italian tune up. Code hasn't come back since. Also I believe if the heat shield fell off, the cats might not get hot enough to clean itself. I wrapped it with exhaust wrap but I took it off cause I didnt want it to trap moisture.
 

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Also good luck on finding the cause of the misfires after replacing all of the injectors with non-oem parts. There is a place you can send your OEM injectors in to get it cleaned and flow tested. I would have checked the injectors with an automobile stethoscope before trying to replace them. I've never seen a Toyota injector fail. Been driving them for 20 years. My 1990 Nissan Maxima had a few bad injectors though...Cause it's a Nissan.
 

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ok lets start. bought this van in may 2022. had it for about 2 days and the check engine light came on with both codes. i started throwing parts at it since with zero luck. i havent checked gas mileage but goes through gas quicker than i feel it should.engine seems to hesitate and double over while accelerating. I stumbled on the misfire after changing o2 sencors. check engine light started flashing. said # 2 misfire. i checked spark plug on # 2 and swapped #2 coil and #6 coil to see if that would make it change to #6 but it did not. i hooked up my scanner and did a live data test and i seen the misfires are on all cylinders. I just checked the timing belt and it is cracked all over on the smooth side. i started to disasemble to change. so i will not be able to run anymore tests until i get the timming belt done. i will be sure to double check my timing marks before removing old belt and recheck them after new belt is installed.

Make sure to use a quality Aisin timing belt kit (TKT-026) which includes the water pump. I had intended to do mine myself, having never done one before but something came up (winter) and I ended up having it done by a trusted shop. They specifically requested I also provide the Aisin seal kit (SKT-004) and 2 gallons of Toyota coolant. Both part numbers were for my '06, but should be the same for yours. Just make sure to double-check.

If the timing belt was in such poor condition, I would bet they (previous owners) ALSO neglected the other 100k mile services. You can pull a front-bank spark plug and inspect for condition and part number to see if they look original and/or need replacement. If so, the next service you do should be a spark plug job. If you are unaware, the spark plug job, when done properly, requires removal of the cowl tray, throttle body and intake manifold. As such, you should plan to replace the intake and TB gaskets and give the TB a thorough wipe down. If you notice any wetness around the valve cover, you should also replace the valve cover gaskets while you're in there. There is a resealing of the valley cover gasket and a potential for sensor wires to get brittle and break when you do the job, so that's a potential to plan for as well. If you're resealing the valley cover to prevent potential coolant leaks, replacing the plastic tees and the plastic pipe that also acts as the thermostat housing should also be considered while everything is open and accessible.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
Make sure to use a quality Aisin timing belt kit (TKT-026) which includes the water pump. I had intended to do mine myself, having never done one before but something came up (winter) and I ended up having it done by a trusted shop. They specifically requested I also provide the Aisin seal kit (SKT-004) and 2 gallons of Toyota coolant. Both part numbers were for my '06, but should be the same for yours. Just make sure to double-check.

If the timing belt was in such poor condition, I would bet they (previous owners) ALSO neglected the other 100k mile services. You can pull a front-bank spark plug and inspect for condition and part number to see if they look original and/or need replacement. If so, the next service you do should be a spark plug job. If you are unaware, the spark plug job, when done properly, requires removal of the cowl tray, throttle body and intake manifold. As such, you should plan to replace the intake and TB gaskets and give the TB a thorough wipe down. If you notice any wetness around the valve cover, you should also replace the valve cover gaskets while you're in there. There is a resealing of the valley cover gasket and a potential for sensor wires to get brittle and break when you do the job, so that's a potential to plan for as well. If you're resealing the valley cover to prevent potential coolant leaks, replacing the plastic tees and the plastic pipe that also acts as the thermostat housing should also be considered while everything is open and accessible.
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It seems like the person you bought this van from had the mentality that since it's a Toyota, you can change the oil and ignore everything else. People seem to buy these things, drive them 200,000 miles with the bare minimum done, and sell it just before the cascade of failures reaches them. If you have misfires, fix that first. Sometimes you may not be able to feel it, but the vehicle can still be misfiring. Rear spark plugs on these vans is quite the task. You'd think Toyota would be the company to make repairs and maintenance DIY friendly, but that honor goes to my Volvo; with an inline 6 with plugs right on top and easy to access.

You may find that doing the belt and spark plugs fixes all other issues, but if the catalyst codes persist, P0420 (bank 1) and/or 430 (bank 2) mean catalytic converter efficiency is below threshold. That threshold is 97%. I'm sure I work at less than 97% efficiency too, and I'm not worried about it. Just put a couple washers on the O2 sensors before you put them in. You can even get a threaded "sleeve" or "spacer" to thread into the sensor hole, then thread the sensor into that. This decreases the amount of surface area of the sensors that are exposed to the exhaust stream, making it less likely to detect that the efficiency is below threshold.

I can already hear the keyboards angrily tapping away....

Think about it this way. This van is 18 years old now that we are in 2023. Many 18 year old vehicles are rusty, most have multiple issues, and almost all of them are approaching or have surpassed 200,000 miles. I am very well aware of how a Gen2 Sienna can absolutely eat you alive in constant perpetual issues. My 2010 (5 years newer than OP's) ate $8700 worth of repairs in a year and a half, and was ready for $2500 more when I gave up. The cost of 2 new original equipment cats, 4 original equipment O2 sensors, timing belt, and spark plugs WILL total this vehicle whether or not it was taken to a professional shop. That is not up for debate. The OP just wants his annoying dash lights to turn off. He does NOT want to total this van by putting thousands of dollars of parts into it, even if he's doing labor himself. Besides, how much pollution will you create to mine all that palladium against how little you'll prevent on a car nearing the end of it's natural life? If he can get rid of the dash lights by doing a timing belt kit, tune up, and a 02 sensor spacer, he may yet find there's useful life left.

Toyotas are not vehicles to be bought used. They retain too much value for too long. By the time it's an affordable used car, it's mechanically totaled due to 4 prior owners beating the hell out of the thing and deferring maintenance. I learned from my experience with the 2010. In October of 2021, I bought a 2022 Sienna with 3 miles. I bought the 150,000 mile warranty and the 5 year interior fit and finish warranty. Now, I just drive it. Over the last 46,000 miles, I've averaged 40+ MPG and haven't crawled under it once. I pay under $100 for oil change and tire rotation every 10,000 miles after the first 25,000 miles that Toyota pays for. This is how you maximize your Toyota ownership experience, not by buying someone else's problems.
 

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My coworker bought his son a 400,000 mile Camry station wagon for college and he's still driving it after a few years. Lol. The guy with the brand new F150 laughed at him, but guess who had to trade his brand new truck in cause of the rain leaking into the cabin?

Toyotas are fine if you know how to properly diagnose major mechanical problems before you buy it. They are definitely not indestructible.

Speaking of diagnostics, I'd also do a cylinder leak down test and a compression test just to rule out a bad head gasket or a cracked head. Make sure there is no oil in your coolant. Whatever you do, stop replacing parts.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
It seems like the person you bought this van from had the mentality that since it's a Toyota, you can change the oil and ignore everything else. People seem to buy these things, drive them 200,000 miles with the bare minimum done, and sell it just before the cascade of failures reaches them. If you have misfires, fix that first. Sometimes you may not be able to feel it, but the vehicle can still be misfiring. Rear spark plugs on these vans is quite the task. You'd think Toyota would be the company to make repairs and maintenance DIY friendly, but that honor goes to my Volvo; with an inline 6 with plugs right on top and easy to access.

You may find that doing the belt and spark plugs fixes all other issues, but if the catalyst codes persist, P0420 (bank 1) and/or 430 (bank 2) mean catalytic converter efficiency is below threshold. That threshold is 97%. I'm sure I work at less than 97% efficiency too, and I'm not worried about it. Just put a couple washers on the O2 sensors before you put them in. You can even get a threaded "sleeve" or "spacer" to thread into the sensor hole, then thread the sensor into that. This decreases the amount of surface area of the sensors that are exposed to the exhaust stream, making it less likely to detect that the efficiency is below threshold.

I can already hear the keyboards angrily tapping away....

Think about it this way. This van is 18 years old now that we are in 2023. Many 18 year old vehicles are rusty, most have multiple issues, and almost all of them are approaching or have surpassed 200,000 miles. I am very well aware of how a Gen2 Sienna can absolutely eat you alive in constant perpetual issues. My 2010 (5 years newer than OP's) ate $8700 worth of repairs in a year and a half, and was ready for $2500 more when I gave up. The cost of 2 new original equipment cats, 4 original equipment O2 sensors, timing belt, and spark plugs WILL total this vehicle whether or not it was taken to a professional shop. That is not up for debate. The OP just wants his annoying dash lights to turn off. He does NOT want to total this van by putting thousands of dollars of parts into it, even if he's doing labor himself. Besides, how much pollution will you create to mine all that palladium against how little you'll prevent on a car nearing the end of it's natural life? If he can get rid of the dash lights by doing a timing belt kit, tune up, and a 02 sensor spacer, he may yet find there's useful life left.

Toyotas are not vehicles to be bought used. They retain too much value for too long. By the time it's an affordable used car, it's mechanically totaled due to 4 prior owners beating the hell out of the thing and deferring maintenance. I learned from my experience with the 2010. In October of 2021, I bought a 2022 Sienna with 3 miles. I bought the 150,000 mile warranty and the 5 year interior fit and finish warranty. Now, I just drive it. Over the last 46,000 miles, I've averaged 40+ MPG and haven't crawled under it once. I pay under $100 for oil change and tire rotation every 10,000 miles after the first 25,000 miles that Toyota pays for. This is how you maximize your Toyota ownership experience, not by buying someone else's problems.
I tried the spark plug anti-Fowler on the oxygen sensor. Which shims the oxygen sensor out of the stream of the exhaust. And the code still comes on. I started to change the timing belt cause it shot. And I noticed the crankshaft sensor is so caked up with oil and other dirt covering that sensor. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it or can add to my problem. It did get cleaned out already.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
I tried the spark plug anti-Fowler on the oxygen sensor. Which shims the oxygen sensor out of the stream of the exhaust. And the code still comes on. I started to change the timing belt cause it shot. And I noticed the crankshaft sensor is so caked up with oil and other dirt covering that sensor. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it or can add to my problem. It did get cleaned out already.
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Wow, you were probably miles away from that thing snapping! You can see some of those cracks go almost all the way through the belt. I went back and skimmed the other posts, but didn't see it. How many miles on this van? I'm guessing that's an original belt. Mine looked almost new at 120k miles.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Wow, you were probably miles away from that thing snapping! You can see some of those cracks go almost all the way through the belt. I went back and skimmed the other posts, but didn't see it. How many miles on this van? I'm guessing that's an original belt. Mine looked almost new at 120k miles.
230,000
 

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Oh gosh! That timing belt is nuts! Scary stuff, it’s about ready to snap.


Yes I know that you can get some Denso parts from them.....Rockauto does not sell OEM catalytic converters though. Last I checked when this happened to me 10 years ago, they sold Walker Catalytic Converters for $100 that will prob last 2 years. As I said there is no discount on Palladium. Good thing I kept my OEM catalytic converter and welded the hole. Hasn't seen a P0430 code since. My OEM catalytic converter is 20 years old and works fine.

Also what are shipping rates these days? I just paid $50 in shipping alone for a Prius C tailight that I ordered online. Sometimes the dealer is actually cheaper. I'm not going to tell him to go sort through counterfeit/unverified parts online which might waste his time in the long run.

And oh yea I did try the Bosch AutoZone O2 sensors before I knew any better...and yes they were garbage and wasted my time. I verified that the cat was fine using an IR thermometer. Threw those away and got the proper Denso brand. Then welded my cat and sealed all of the gasket leaks. Then did an Italian tune up. Code hasn't come back since. Also I believe if the heat shield fell off, the cats might not get hot enough to clean itself. I wrapped it with exhaust wrap but I took it off cause I didnt want it to trap moisture.
My latest Rockauto order with 6 (Denso) spark plugs, 3 Denso coils, 4 pairs of headlight bulbs, 8 windshield wipers, transmission filter, and some gaskets cost…$20 to ship to me.

My Aisin water pump, thermostat, and thermostat gasket from Rockauto cost me $45 to ship next business day express. Still cheaper than the OEM pump from Toyota!

There’s what looks like a lot of junk on Rockauto. If a part is available for $5, and ranges up to $75, guess what part I do NOT buy? I try to stick with known name brands near the higher end of the price range on Rockauto, and it works out well. the OEM brand, if available.
 

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Oh gosh! That timing belt is nuts! Scary stuff, it’s about ready to snap.



My latest Rockauto order with 6 (Denso) spark plugs, 3 Denso coils, 4 pairs of headlight bulbs, 8 windshield wipers, transmission filter, and some gaskets cost…$20 to ship to me.

My Aisin water pump, thermostat, and thermostat gasket from Rockauto cost me $45 to ship next business day express. Still cheaper than the OEM pump from Toyota!

There’s what looks like a lot of junk on Rockauto. If a part is available for $5, and ranges up to $75, guess what part I do NOT buy? I try to stick with known name brands near the higher end of the price range on Rockauto, and it works out well. the OEM brand, if available.
I do buy stuff from Rockauto. I just don't buy the electronic stuff. If it is Denso then it's prob ok though. I don't know about reman injectors. I'd like to see flow test numbers...and I think injectors need to be balanced. I hear good things about Witchhunter.

I did buy $20 Raysbestos wholesaler closeout brake pads. Prob best brake pads I've ever used. Bought a $60 power steering pump from Amazon that fell apart in a week. I like Beck Arnley stuff. Currently using Duralast wheel bearings on 4runner and SKF on the Tundra. Let's see how long they last. I hear mevotech is ok, but yes the price is a pretty good indicator of the quality. I definitely will never use aftermarket ball joints on my 4runner though. Even if I'm selling it.

I also know a mechanical engineer who worked his way through college as a mechanic and he told me that Duralast parts are good but avoid their electrical stuff. He also restored a Ford Bronco...So I assume he knows what he's talking about.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Called it.
Ok timing belt, water pump all changed. So I got to run all my live data. I hope these results help point me in the direction to find the cause. Long Ft # 1 is -3.09% Long Ft # 2 is -0.81. Short Ft # 1 is -3.16% Short Ft # 2 is -0.03%. Total Ft # 1 is 1.01. Vapor pressure is-0.01 psi. O2 Ft B1 S2 and O2 Ft B2 S2 are 99.16%. O2s B1 S2 is .74v O2s B2 S2 is .70v.
 

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Discussion Starter · #40 ·
Ok timing belt, water pump all changed. So I got to run all my live data. I hope these results help point me in the direction to find the cause. Long Ft # 1 is -3.09% Long Ft # 2 is -0.81. Short Ft # 1 is -3.16% Short Ft # 2 is -0.03%. Total Ft # 1 is 1.01. Vapor pressure is-0.01 psi. O2 Ft B1 S2 and O2 Ft B2 S2 are 99.16%. O2s B1 S2 is .74v O2s B2 S2 is .70v.
And fuel pressure is 50psi at idle and after 5 minutes off it drops to 40psi
 
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